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Joe Bausch

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Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« on: December 18, 2009, 11:58:38 PM »
Gosh, another wonderful article from 1917 that is chock full of information.  My, what a place Philadelphia must have been early in the last century.



« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 10:47:21 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

BCrosby

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 08:00:41 AM »
Joe -

Great stuff. Keep it coming. Who was Peter Putter?

I've always wanted to know more about the amateur/pro standing issue for golf architects at the time. I seem to recall that Taylor and other pros were petitioning the R&A on the same issue at about the same time as your article. MacK in SoSA, writing in the early '30's, was still upset about Taylor's efforts in that regard. MacK seemed to think it was a naked attempt to limit competition. He was probably right. 

Different in the US was that there was no powerful group of professional players designing golf courses. Which suggests that the USGA did not impose its rule because of the lobbying efforts of an interest group, but for other reasons. Maybe USGA's rule was simply an attempt to stay in sync with the R&A? Though Taylor's efforts didn't finally succeed. Was the Ouimet mess with his sporting goods store going on at the same time?  There's lots here for a good essay.

Bob   

Joe Bausch

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 08:06:12 AM »
Joe -

Great stuff. Keep it coming. Who was Peter Putter?


I don't know yet.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Tom MacWood

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2009, 10:42:43 AM »
Joe
Thanks for sharing these articles...this is a wonderful find. Who is not mentioned in this article is almost as interesting as who is mentioned. There is no mention of George Thomas. Two potential reasons: he accepted money for design work or in the early years he was not as involved in design as we have thought. The latter explanation seems more likely than the first one.

Tom MacWood

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2009, 10:44:16 AM »
Here is a little blurb from Verdant Greene, also from 1917.

Tom MacWood

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2009, 11:14:06 AM »
Bob
The amateur controversy in Britain you're speaking of took place in late 1908. There were two complaints from the pros - 1. that some amateur club members were buying golf balls in bulk and selling them to their fellow members at low cost, undercutting the pros and 2. amateur links architects who accepted a fee were in violation of the amateur rules (the amateurs were also stealing a lot of the top commissions). The first complaint was considered legit; the second was soundly shot down and never got anywhere. To my knowledge the R&A did not amend their amateur definition (which was written in 1886 prior to the first British Am) until sometime after WWII (on second thought they may have tweaked the caddying rules slightly in the 20s). Designing golf courses for a fee was never considered a violation of the rules as written. Interestingly caddying was a major focus of those early amateur rules.

Amateurism in sport (and other endeavors too) has always been a big deal in England. Amateur sport was considered the highest form of sport, and because of that there was a long history of abusing the amateur rules. One of the best examples was cricket, which may have been the most popular sport in the late 19th and early 20th C. Guys like WG Grace made a fortune in and around the sport and he was considered an amateur his entire career. Shamateurism was a common term in those days. I think there is evidence of some animosity toward the British amateur movement in the USA, which may have had something to do with the rule changes regarding golf architecture.

On the other hand the USA has had there own series of shamateurs, Travis being perhaps one of the first and most blatant. The rules change may have been an attack on him too. One gets the impression he was not always the most popular fellow. But there were others, I think it is pretty clear Ouimet did abuse the system, and Bobby Jones too.

I wonder who were those five or six amateur golf architects Verdant Greene is referring to?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 11:16:37 AM by Tom MacWood »

BCrosby

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 11:35:20 AM »
Tom -

Thanks. I knew the outlines of the R&A issues, but did not know they went down as early as 1908. 

Bob






DMoriarty

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2009, 06:36:48 PM »
TomM,

As for Travis, I recently came across an article in which he was accused of trading publicity for free equipment.   

Along these lines, Travis was often mentioned in advertisements for the hotel associated with Ekwanok, and I have wonder if he had a similar arrangement there.    Also, this may have been how his name (mistakenly) became associated with that design.   

Jones may have had a similar arrangement with the hotel loosely associated with Augusta National.   He was hired to act as the hotel's attorney, but was also required to spend a certain amount of time each year staying at the hotel.   To the hotel, the value of his celebrity likely far outweighed the value of his legal services. 
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

ChipOat

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2009, 09:11:22 PM »
The first article refers to Donald Ross as "easily the best architect in the United States".  I hope that refers only to those who were paid for their work because, with all due respect to DR, one Charles Blair Macdonald had done some awfully good work in these parts by early 1917.  I'm sure that NGLA and Shinnecock had been completed for years and that, at the very least, Piping Rock had also been finished.  That's pretty fancy credentials, I think.

Steve Lang

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 09:52:40 PM »
 8)  So Hugh Wilson laid out both Merion Courses...  hmmm
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

John Moore II

Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2009, 10:39:07 PM »
So this seems to be a slight trend in the overall golf business in general during this time, with top notch amateur players choosing to remain at work in their regular jobs rather than being touring golf professionals.

But is something like this even possible today? Is it really possible for an amateur architect to make as high quality a golf course today as a paid professional? With money being as big a factor as it is today. I really like the idea of people who do work (any kind of work) because of love and enjoyment of what they do, but is that really possible in the architecture field today?

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 11:13:51 AM »
It wasn't just architects who got into trouble. Enid Wilson (Curtis Cup golfer) lost her amateur status:

Enid Wilson was at the height of her game when, in 1934, the Ladies’ Golf Union declared her a “non-amateur”.

Having received money for writing instructional captions to a series of golfing photographs, she had to retire from competitive amateur golf at the grand old age of 24.

But the sport did not lose its biggest fan.

A born handywoman, Enid was soon busy designing a full range of golf equipment. The clubs she devised were made available in four different weights, graded to the height and strength of the player.

She also developed her journalistic skills by writing her own column for Golf Illustrated and contributing to various other journals.

In 1935, she collaborated with Robert Allen Lewis on a coaching textbook entitled So that’s what I do!


I've lifted this from Bygonederbyshire.co.uk

Tom MacWood

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2009, 11:16:55 AM »
David
I know Travis got in 'trouble' a few times accepting free accommodations...I believe the Belleair hotel was involved in one of the controversies. He denied everything.

In 1928 The Brooklyn Eagle did an expose on RT Jones (and the USGA, who they claimed was turning a blind eye) in which they questioned $30,000 he received the previous year for a series of five articles and book--they also suggested he didn't write either. But that was small potatoes compared to a $50,000 house his friends in Atlanta bought him. As the criticism mounted (on both sides of the Atlantic) I believe Jones eventually declined the house. There was talk the R&A was going to ban him from the 1929 British Am...by the way Jones did not play in the 1929 British Open or Am.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 11:18:35 AM by Tom MacWood »

BCrosby

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2009, 12:09:03 PM »
Jones didn't decline the house. The gift was restructured so that, legally, it came from his father. They checked with the USGA, got the sign off and Jones got his house.

His absence in 1929 from the British Am and Open probably didn't have to do with the house. Jones didn't go to the UK several summers in the 1920's. It almost always had to do with travel expenses. He always went in years when there were Walker Cup matches, for example. I don't have my notes, but particularly in the early 1920's, Jones didn't cross the pond several seasons.

Bob

Tom MacWood

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2009, 09:26:07 PM »
Jones didn't decline the house. The gift was restructured so that, legally, it came from his father. They checked with the USGA, got the sign off and Jones got his house.

His absence in 1929 from the British Am and Open probably didn't have to do with the house. Jones didn't go to the UK several summers in the 1920's. It almost always had to do with travel expenses. He always went in years when there were Walker Cup matches, for example. I don't have my notes, but particularly in the early 1920's, Jones didn't cross the pond several seasons.

Bob

Bob
Are you saying he publicly announced he was declining the house for the good of the game, and then turned around and accepted it through his old man?

Jones played in the 1927 Open & Am and I don't believe there was a Walker Cup competition that year. In fact I believe Jones only played in two Walker Cups on British soil.

BCrosby

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 08:40:32 AM »
Yes, Jones ended up with the house. I will try to dig out my sources. The subscription scheme caused concerns with the USGA. Jones declined the gift because of the perception issues. He later approached the USGA with the idea that it be structured as a gift from his father. As I recall, Jones took out a mortgage on part of the purchase price (his father fronted some or all of the down payment, can't reall exactly) and was responsible for paying that, though it was a pretty nominal annual amount. That seemed to pass muster with the USGA (I don't know the details) and Jones ended up with the house. Was it all form over substance? Probably.

Jones did not compete in several of the British majors in the 20's. He always went when Walker Cups were played in the UK. He went some other summers. But he also didn't go two or three other summers. Look it up. A more careful reading of my post is always much appreciated.

Bob
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 09:07:40 AM by BCrosby »

Tom MacWood

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 09:58:04 AM »
You learn something everyday. Publicly posturing that you are declining a gift for the good amateur golf while at the same time deceptively re-arranging for the transaction to take place - that is pretty underhanded if you ask me. It sounds like Jones fits the defintion of shamateur to a T.

I don't believe Jones played in the 1923 Walker Cup at St. Andrews, but he did play in the 1926 and 1930 events on British soil.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 10:04:39 AM by Tom MacWood »

BCrosby

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 10:09:37 AM »
There was no doubt shamateurism involved. I'd guess that Col Jones got the money for the down payment from the same syndicate that wanted to buy the house for Bobby in the first place. But I don't know that for sure. As noted, there was a fair amount of form over substance going on. BTW, it was a very nice house.

Bob

« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 10:37:32 AM by BCrosby »

BCrosby

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2009, 10:14:07 AM »
A follow up. Yes, Jones did not travel to Britain in 1923 with the Walker Cup team. The reason usually given was that he was finishing up exams at Harvard and couldn't get there in time.

Bob

ChipOat

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Re: Famous Golf Architects Who Prefer To Remain As Amateurs....
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2009, 04:00:28 PM »
Tom and Bob,

Mark Frost's excellent book, "The Grand Slam", gives a good year-by-year chronology of all things Jones - especially from 1923-1930.  It will serve you well as a factual resource on the what, when and where.  I'll let you guys make your own decisions re: all the M.O.'s and rationales behind the events described therein - i.e. the "why's".

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