[Dale Jackson]

To be sure, the game in North America had begun to evolve from primitive days.  A handful of golf courses had been built which had true and lasting merit, courses which today are revered and honoured for their early importance.  A list of such courses might include:

Myopia Hunt – first 9,1896 and second nine 1901
Ekwanok – 1900
National Golf Links of America – 1906
Pinehurst – 1907 (but note the course had sand bunkers for many years after this date)
Toronto Golf Club – 1912
Merion – 1912
Hamilton Golf and Country Club - 1913

Are there other courses in North America that existed before the beginning of WWI that were of lasting architectural interest?

[George Pazin]

Oakmont, 1903

[Jukka Takamaa]

To be sure, the game in North America had begun to evolve from primitive days.  A handful of golf courses had been built which had true and lasting merit, courses which today are revered and honoured for their early importance.  A list of such courses might include:

Myopia Hunt – first 9,1896 and second nine 1901
Ekwanok – 1900
National Golf Links of America – 1906
Pinehurst – 1907 (but note the course had sand bunkers for many years after this date)
Toronto Golf Club – 1912
Merion – 1912
Hamilton Golf and Country Club - 1913

Are there other courses in North America that existed before the beginning of WWI that were of lasting architectural interest?

I used to live in Newport R.I. The course there must be older. It is the birthplace of amateur golf in USA.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Oakmont, definitely; though this course evolved into its present form during the post-WWI era. I'm thinking same can be said of National Golf Links of America and Pine Valley.

I'm surprised you didn't mention Royal Colwood, Dale! As you know very well, not much has changed there since 1913. Royal Colwood definitely features some "lasting architectural interest" originally devised during the pre-WWI era.

[Dale Jackson]

Oakmont, definitely; though this course evolved into its present form during the post-WWI era. I'm thinking same can be said of National Golf Links of America and Pine Valley.

I'm surprised you didn't mention Royal Colwood, Dale! As you know very well, not much has changed there since 1913. Royal Colwood definitely features some "lasting architectural interest" originally devised during the pre-WWI era.

Jeff, you bring up what was to be my next question, I know some courses existed before WWI but it is another question if their design then was "time worthy" or whether its design evolved later on to earn its reputation. 

I would ask that question of Oakmont, NGLA and Pinehurst.  And, for the Canadian crowd, Toronto and Hamilton.

As for Royal Colwood, I was certainly not ignoring its contribution, but I trying to fit its beginnings and importance into the overall North American picture at the time.

[Adam Clayman]

Ahhmm.   Chicago 1895.  The first 18 holes.

[Tom MacWood]

I would not include Oakmont or Pinehurst #2 because neither course was that highly thought of at the time of their inception. It took several years and several redesigns for those courses to gain their reputations.

I agree with Adam, I'd include Chicago, and also Garden City (1899). I think your date for the NGLA is a bit early (1909) and your date for Myopia a little late (1894).

[Tom MacWood]

Dale
Since your focus is on Colwood you might ask what was the first very good course built in the West, West of the Rockies that is.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Garden City...

[Dale Jackson]

Dale
Since your focus is on Colwood you might ask what was the first very good course built in the West, West of the Rockies that is.

Tom, I think I know the answer to this one.  But let me put two similar questions.

1. What are the first good courses west of Chicago/Mississippi?

2.  Is Royal Colwood the first?

[Jeff_Mingay]

On several occasions I've written that Colwood is likely the first course built west of the Mississippi to compare (at least somewhat) favourably with the best courses in the east. I can't think of any other course in the west built during the pre-WWI era that compares with Colwood.

And, although there have been changes at Colwood over the years (some directed by Macan, himself), the basic structure of the course and most of the greens date to its original construction, as I understand. Dale?

[Rick Shefchik]

Dale
Since your focus is on Colwood you might ask what was the first very good course built in the West, West of the Rockies that is.

Tom, I think I know the answer to this one.  But let me put two similar questions.

1. What are the first good courses west of Chicago/Mississippi?

2.  Is Royal Colwood the first?

St. Paul's Town & Country was the first course west of Chicago (it's on the east bank of the Mississippi.) They started playing golf on that location in 1893; the course as it is currently configured was designed by Robert Foulis in 1900. Foulis was recommended to the club by C.B. Macdonald; Foulis also helped Willie Watson design the Minikahda Club in Minneapolis, which opened its first nine holes in 1899.

I'm not sure how much of Foulis's work has been changed at Town & Country, but the course has such a small footprint that there couldn't have been significant routing changes. It's a fun course to play -- sporty, as the saying goes, at 6300 yards. The greens are small with a fair amount of unpinable locations. It defends itself well at the greens.

Minikahda underwent a total redesign by Donald Ross between 1916-1920.

[Dale Jackson]

On several occasions I've written that Colwood is likely the first course built west of the Mississippi to compare (at least somewhat) favourably with the best courses in the east. I can't think of any other course in the west built during the pre-WWI era that compares with Colwood.

And, although there have been changes at Colwood over the years (some directed by Macan, himself), the basic structure of the course and most of the greens date to its original construction, as I understand. Dale?

Jeff, you are correct with regard to Colwood.  We have 3 greens rebuilt in the 1970 - 80 range, none of them in any way an improvement over what Macan built.  Macan himself rebuilt #8 in 1920-21, and #14 in 1926.  The 14th hole rebuild is new information Jeff, I probably was not aware of it the last time we talked.  We are lucky to have a good photo of the original 14th.

I appreciate the "compare (at least somewhat) favourably" and, one day, for my own education, would like to know the state of those early Eastern courses vs Colwood in the early years.

[Dale Jackson]

St. Paul's Town & Country was the first course west of Chicago (it's on the east bank of the Mississippi.) They started playing golf on that location in 1893; the course as it is currently configured was designed by Robert Foulis in 1900. Foulis was recommended to the club by C.B. Macdonald; Foulis also helped Willie Watson design the Minikahda Club in Minneapolis, which opened its first nine holes in 1899.

I'm not sure how much of Foulis's work has been changed at Town & Country, but the course has such a small footprint that there couldn't have been significant routing changes. It's a fun course to play -- sporty, as the saying goes, at 6300 yards. The greens are small with a fair amount of unpinable locations. It defends itself well at the greens.

Minikahda underwent a total redesign by Donald Ross between 1916-1920.

Thanks Rick, I did not know of St Paul's Town and Country.  Victoria Golf Club is the oldest club west of the Mississippi to be on its original land - 1893 - but the course has undergone significant renovations throughout almost all of its history, and certainly the routing today bears no semblance to its original layout.

[Bradley Anderson]

Old Elm 1913

[Jeff_Mingay]

On several occasions I've written that Colwood is likely the first course built west of the Mississippi to compare (at least somewhat) favourably with the best courses in the east. I can't think of any other course in the west built during the pre-WWI era that compares with Colwood.

And, although there have been changes at Colwood over the years (some directed by Macan, himself), the basic structure of the course and most of the greens date to its original construction, as I understand. Dale?

Jeff, you are correct with regard to Colwood.  We have 3 greens rebuilt in the 1970 - 80 range, none of them in any way an improvement over what Macan built.  Macan himself rebuilt #8 in 1920-21, and #14 in 1926.  The 14th hole rebuild is new information Jeff, I probably was not aware of it the last time we talked.  We are lucky to have a good photo of the original 14th.

I appreciate the "compare (at least somewhat) favourably" and, one day, for my own education, would like to know the state of those early Eastern courses vs Colwood in the early years.

Well... we'll just have to have another pint of Guinness together next time I'm in Victoria, Dale 

[Jay Flemma]

Garden City...Oakmont...National

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