Hardest Hole You Have Ever Played?

[jim_lewis]

Several of my top candidates have already been mentioned:
Oakmont #1
Carnoustie #18
Merion #5 and #17
Pine Valley #5
Old Course #17
Pine Tree #7   (I modified my post to add this hole. I've played it 12-15 times and made one par with a chip-in from behind the green. When the wind is up (always!!), the dogleg around the water, the length, and the bunkering around the green makes it play like a tough, short par 5

I have played each of those holes between 2 and 10 times and rarely made a par on either. However, I figure that if I played them enough, I would eventually find a way. There is one hole that I have played at least 100 times and still have trouble making a bogey, let alone a par.

#5 at Pinehurst #2.
On the rare occasion that I can actually reach it in two, there is no way the ball will stay on the green. I usually try to lay back to a short wedge for my third shot. That damned green is hard to hit with a wedge! When I finally get on the green, a two-putt is hard enough. Forget a one-putt. The only place you can miss that green and hope to get up and down is from the back right. Most pros did not hit the green in regulation during the two opens played here, and hardly any birdied the hole. I always play for a 5 and feel pretty good when I make one. A 4 is a birdie as far as I'm concerned. I do know a guy here who once birdied it twice in one day. No way I would believe him if he didn't have a trustworthy witness. I've had more holes-in-one than birdies on #5.

[Dean DiBerardino]

#5 at Pinehurst #2.
On the rare occasion that I can actually reach it in two, there is no way the ball will stay on the green. I usually try to lay back to a short wedge for my third shot. That damned green is hard to hit with a wedge! When I finally get on the green, a two-putt is hard enough. Forget a one-putt. The only place you can miss that green and hope to get up and down is from the back right. Most pros did not hit the green in regulation during the two opens played here, and hardly any birdied the hole. I always play for a 5 and feel pretty good when I make one. A 4 is a birdie as far as I'm concerned. I do know a guy here who once birdied it twice in one day. No way I would believe him if he didn't have a trustworthy witness. I've had more holes-in-one than birdies on #5.

Jim:

I agree.  It's hard to believe it took so many posts before #5 on No. 2 was mentioned.  Hole #6 is no pushover either.....

[Jon Heise]

#9 Kingsley
#8 Crystal Downs


Im sure there's more, but Kingsley 9 is the winner...

[jim_lewis]

Dean:

#6 (on Pinehurst #2) is certainly very  difficult too. I think I have made most of my pars there by getting up and down from the left bunker. Right is death. The thing that makes #6 even harder, at least for me, is that I always seem to arrive at the tee in a state or shock and disgust from how I just played #5 .

[archie_struthers]

 


Someone down South please help with the hole number  ( 7  )  but ithe Country Club of Charleston has a par three that is the hardest hole without water I've ever played  , and it's not long  ......anyone who has played there in the Azalea Am knows of what I speak

[Garland Bayley]

Someone down South please help with the hole number  ( 7  )  but ithe Country Club of Charleston has a par three that is the hardest hole without water I've ever played  , and it's not long  ......anyone who has played there in the Azalea Am knows of what I speak

Aren't you speaking of #9 that was named in a book as one of the worst holes in golf?

[Greg Tallman]

#12 at Mahogany Run on St Thomas USVI. Only about 370 but no place to hit it... you throw a long iron up on the hillside hope it does not hang up in the rough and then stops before running across the fairway into the abyss... If you pull that off you have a 130-150  yards to a tiny green with an ocean inlet just off the left edge and the same hillside to the right from which you could either get a bounce across the green or hung up with an impossible pitch. Oh yeah conditioning (or lack thereof) did not make it far more difficult.

Greg, is Mahogany run where they have the "Devil's Triangle?"  Fun course, buy way too many years ago.  Almost made ahole in one there, off a side hill. 

Yes, it is. FYI I gave the wrong hole number however it is #13 not #12. Your near ace would have been at #14 playing across the water (150 feet below) to a tiny green benched into the hillside. Terrible golf hole, but breathtaking nonetheless. One could fashion a pretty nice 12 hole course on the land that now has 18.

[Tim Gavrich]

Par 3
Bronze: #15 at Sugarloaf GC in Sugarloaf, PA.  It's 266 yards, uphill over a pond to a two-tiered green.  Trees/OB right.  Yikes
Silver: #13 at Pawleys Plantation in Pawleys Island, SC.  145 yards of pure terror.  A green that is 20 yards deep and 35 yards wide, with swirling wind.  Anything not on the green is in the marsh, or maybe a nasty rear-right bunker.
Gold: #17 at Pawleys Plantation.  205 yards, all carry to a 15 yard deep green, marsh just short, OB close behind, sand left, very little bailout right.

Par 4
Bronze: #18 at Cardinal CC in Greensboro, NC.  It's about 455 yards with a tee shot that must hit the left half of the fairway or be blocked out by trees, to a fast, undulating green where anything right of the edge will careen down into god-knows-what kind of pit of despair.
Silver: #18 at Paradise Point GC (Gold) at Camp Lejeune, Jacksonville, NC.  It's about 475 yards straightaway, bunkers right of the fairway, woods/hazard left.  If you hit the fairway, you're still going to have about 200 yards to a green guarded by a pond left and more bunkers and OB right.  Positively sphincter-tightening.
Gold: #12 at Lexington CC, Lexington, VA.  It's only about 435 yards, but the hole is a 90 degree dogleg right, so to make it shorter you must blow it over a forest to a narrow fairway that slopes a lot from left-to right.  That leaves a mid-iron (if you're lucky) to a green that is  15 yards deep and slopes even more steeply left-to-right.  Any shot that lands pin-high right is going OB and almost any ball that finds the green but above the hole is going to be at least a three-putt.

Par 5
Bronze: #9 at Hotchkiss School Golf Course, Lakeville, CT.  The first two times I played it, I made an 11 and a 9 (an 18-hole high school match my freshman year).  If you can't hit a controlled ~200 yard shot out of a chute to a murkily low-lying fairway, kindly reload.  Repeat until you hit the fairway.  Then try and hit a layup to a narrow-as-heck landing area before a wedge to a tricky green
Silver: #16 at Hershey Links, Hummelstown, PA.  About 620 yards, straightaway and narrow, to a green set above a ravine.
Gold: #18 at Yale, New Haven, CT.  Needs very little description from me since much has been written about it over the years.  Most people despise it as Yale's lone blemish, while I love the hole as a behemoth of quirk.

Cheers.

--Tim

[jim_lewis]

The hole in question at the CC of Charleston is #11, a much feared redan par 3. Not a hard 4.

[Ben Sims]

Looking through the Colt Book "Creating Classics" last night, I saw a pic of Pine Valley No. 5 and recall standing on that tee saying it was the hardest hole I had ever seen.  The green looked unnattainable, and my tee shot did nothing to change my opinion.  I remembered the pit in my stomach the minute I saw the photo (although it looked a lot cleaner and less nasty than the day I played many years ago)

So, what one hole gave you that feeling of being the toughest you had ever played?  Doesn't have to be famous, doesn't have to be tough for anyone but you,but feel free to add a brief explanation of why!

For those who just can't make up their mind, I would accept toughest Par 3, Par 4 and Par 5. If you want, throw in toughest international hole, etc.  But, the fewer you put in, the better and the more you put in, well, the more it says about your golf game!

Funny you started this thread Jeff.  The hardest hole I have ever played isn't famous, quirky, or even long.  It's the 5th hole from your Wildhorse in Davis, CA.  Wedged between a pond, walnut grove and City of Davis recreation path, a tee shot in the normal 10-20 knot cross will psych out anyone.  Throw in a large mound at 280-ish that pinches the fairway to 15 yards right beside the walnut trees, and you have one tough par 5.  

I checked all my scorecards--which I keep--and I never, ever scored better than a six.  In 37 rounds!

[Brendan Dolan]

6th at Ballyneal is a real difficult test!  480 into the prevailing wind with an angled, blind tee shot, usually leads to a bad start.  Although the approach shot is mostly open it is still a true test.  The green is just great with a ton of movement!

Brendan

[Sean_A]

Ace

This is a perfect case for my earlier point.  Sandwich's 4th is a tough 4, but an easy 5 if one plays it like a par 5.  Virtually all the trouble of the hole is tied into trying to make a 4 by hitting the green in regulation.  Therefore, I don't view the hole as anything like one of the hardest.  Its just another case of folks getting hoodwinked by the concept of par.

Sean:
Do you really think the concept of par is irrelevant here?  If I think of 16 at CPC as a par 4, it's probably not a hard hole -- but it's certainly seems to be a hard par 3.  Or if I think of the 9th hole at RCD as a par 5, then it's not really a hard hole, but it sure seems to be a hard par 4.  IMHO, you think of a hole as hard relative to something, and that something is usually its par designation.  Sure, you *could* compare holes to one another, but then you would end up asking whether 16 at CPC is harder than 9 at RCD, and I would surely say 9 at RCD, if all you cared about is my average score on those holes.  

Carl

Absolutely.  The difficulty of a hole doesn't change because of the par designation.  Is CPC's 16th any different if it is a par 3 or 4?  I would much prefer to talk about the holes and ignore par.  Par is a concept devised for the best players (and it is out of date now for them!) as a way to easily keep score and really should have no bearing on the holes or course themselves.  Somehow, and I think it started with the USGA standardizing par lengths around 1910, the idea of par displaced the much more reasonable (for handicap golfers) bogey system.  Par then started its gradual ascent into some sort of psycho mind game for players who were never, ever, meant to meet the standard of par.  The entire deal of par is really weird and one that has always perplexed me.

Ciao  

So in your mind, the hardest hole is nothing more than the hole that it takes the most strokes to complete .... which on almost every course will be a par 5 (even one that's easy, when measured relative to par)?  

Carl

That stands to reason in most cases.  The holes which take the most strokes to complete are the hardest holes - no?  I don't see how earning a an easy bogey on a par 3 makes it a harder hole than a welcome 6 on another hole.  To my way of thinking, if I am satisfied walking off a green with a 6, its a hard hole.  This shows us how the concept of par warps our thinking into some meaningless concept of relativistic difficulty.  So really, the only way to compare difficulty if par is mentioned is to compare like with like.  That said, there is also something extra about the holes where it is very possible to rack up huge numbers.  That is why I cited the hole I did.  I would imagine the same is true about the 17th at Sawgrass unless there is some sort of cheesy drop zone.  

Ace

Sorry, par should not be your goal for every hole and certainly not for Sandwich's 4th - unless you are planning for an up n' down 4.  You are not good enough to aspire to hitting the green for a regulation par.  According to the USGA, par is determined with the inclusion of two putts per green.  Are you good enough to expect to hit the ball approximately 36 times to be using the putter the rest of the day?  This is why I think for handicap play we should be using the old bogey system.  It is far more realistic to the capabilities of the vast majority of golfers who have no hope of aspiring to par figures.  

Ciao

Sean, we are full agreement.  I play #4 at Sandwich as a par 5, it still requires thoughtful play to make a 5.

But the subject of this thread is "Hardest Hole You Have Ever Played."  In that context, par must be considered, otherwise there's no benchmark for degree of difficulty to attain a goal.  In this case if that goal isn't par, how can you establish which hole is "hardest?"

Ace

You are right, but most of the thought comes on the tee in choosing to disregard the bunkers and play left.  Not unlike many holes, if played this way, it is a double dogleg or one is risking 6. 

I spsoe we will have to agree to disagree because I can't see how par has anything to do with difficulty.  The hole remains the same regardless of par designation.  However, I fully realize that I am in a small minority of folks who really don't pay attention to par except where I am forced to due to handicaps and playing a fair amount of Stableford.  IMO, it is the more the pity as it shows just how pervasive the concept of par and its consequences is.  For those folks who like me, really believe in matchplay as true and proper way to play the game, you know where I am coming from.  It is only now that I realize the gap in my preferences for the type of game played and nothing even comes close to matchplay.

Ciao

[Carl Nichols]

Sean:
I love matchplay too, and play it almost exclusively.  But in almost every four-ball match I play, par is still relevant because we make birdies -- not 3's, or whatever -- worth something. 

[Sam Morrow]

It's hard to pick out one hardest hole I've ever played. For the sake of arguement I will say the hardest hole I have ever played is the next one. This is the same response Jimmy Demaret gave when he was asked what his favorite drink was.

[Jud_T]

Brings up an interesting question...Many of the holes nominated here are really half-par holes, i.e. par 4 1/2, etc, which IMHO are some of the most fun holes around, unless you are a diehard scorecard and penciller.  I would think that heroic holes with large carries and no bailout should really be the hardest....?

[James Boon]

Everyone here is lying, no way the hardest hole you've EVER played is on a course everyone has heard of.

The hardest holes are found on the Painswicks of the world, i.e. the type of courses that no one who lives further than 100 miles away ever hears of, unless they become world famous amongst 1500 or so people worldwide

Doug,

We aren't all lying   I agree with you that some of the hardest holes are on those courses no one has ever heard of. Hence me posting earlier on a course I suspect no one on here has heard of (8th hole at Chevin, Derbyshire) rather than listing a load of tough holes at great courses.

Sean,

For what its worth I'm with you that par should be ignored. As discussed already, a long and tough par 4 may be a real brute to a scratch player, but if a wise 18 handicapper can layup in two and make a steady 5 (net 4), then how can the hole be that hard? You could argue that the system of 'par' is actually making the hole easy for the 18 handicapper? However, say 17 at TOC, thats a hard hole as it tough for the scratch guy to hit the green, and even if the 18 handicapper lays up short right, there is still every chance of the undulations bringing the road or the bunker into play on his chip to the green.

Cheers,

James

[Paul Jones]

9th Hole at Muirfield.  I played it 3 times in a row (late in the day and no else was on the course) and could not par the dang hole.

[Bill_McBride]

Everyone here is lying, no way the hardest hole you've EVER played is on a course everyone has heard of.

The hardest holes are found on the Painswicks of the world, i.e. the type of courses that no one who lives further than 100 miles away ever hears of, unless they become world famous amongst 1500 or so people worldwide

Doug,

We aren't all lying   I agree with you that some of the hardest holes are on those courses no one has ever heard of. Hence me posting earlier on a course I suspect no one on here has heard of (8th hole at Chevin, Derbyshire) rather than listing a load of tough holes at great courses.

Sean,

For what its worth I'm with you that par should be ignored. As discussed already, a long and tough par 4 may be a real brute to a scratch player, but if a wise 18 handicapper can layup in two and make a steady 5 (net 4), then how can the hole be that hard? You could argue that the system of 'par' is actually making the hole easy for the 18 handicapper? However, say 17 at TOC, thats a hard hole as it tough for the scratch guy to hit the green, and even if the 18 handicapper lays up short right, there is still every chance of the undulations bringing the road or the bunker into play on his chip to the green.

Cheers,

James

This is why I listed #4 at Sandwich as my choice for "hardest hole."  It's a brutal 4 for the best players and can be an equally difficult 5 for the higher handicapper.  The tee shot for the better players needs to take on that immense bunker for them to have a crack at the green in two shots, and the green can make it difficult for the lesser skilled once they get there.  All this with no water hazards or OB.

[Bill_McBride]

9th Hole at Muirfield.  I played it 3 times in a row (late in the day and no else was on the course) and could not par the dang hole.

Paul, here we go again, did you play it as a par 5 (medal tee) or par 4 (yellow visitor tee)?  If you can avoid the OB left and hay right and fairway bunkers, it's an easy 5 and very difficult 4.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I have no argument against #5 at Pine Valley..scares me every time.
The penalty for a miss is simply so severe, so for that alone it is brutal.
HOWEVER...#17 at Oak Hill from the back tees on the second round of this yeras Williams is the hardest hole I have ever played.
Into the wind...although only blowing about 15 mph...No way I could reach the green in two.
If the tee shot does not hit the left half of the fairway, I could not even see the green, let alone not be able to reach it.

I actually think it is too long to play as a par four unless you can carry the tee ball 275 plus, but that is how we played it and I certainly felt it was one of the few holes I have evr played knowing a fourwas out of the question unless I got lucky with an up and down.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The 17th at Sand Hills from the abandoned tee...good choice Patrick.
Last time I was there I went back and tried a few...that green is very very small at that angle.
Into the wind it may be easier than if it was downwind..downwind no chance of hitting and staying on the putting surface.
I wish they wold consider restoring that tee box

[Tom Birkert]

As for par 3s, my list would include the 16th at Cypress Point Club, the 17th at Kiawah Island, the 5th at Pine Valley, the 17th at Merion and the 12th at Valderrama.

[Scott Warren]

I'm interested, Sean A, how you measure a difficult hole then, if par is moot?

How can even the most difficult sub-250yd hole be tougher than any hole measuring 500yd+ if the score expectation for their relative length isn't part of the equation?

[JMEvensky]

I'm interested, Sean A, how you measure a difficult hole then, if par is moot?

How can even the most difficult sub-250yd hole be tougher than any hole measuring 500yd+ if the score expectation for their relative length isn't part of the equation?

Thanks for asking a question I've wondered about.

If match play is the one,true path to golf redemption,what difference does it make what the holes are like?Easy or hard wouldn't seem to matter if all you're trying to do is beat the other guy by a shot.

[Bruce Katona]

Just had to post this as the discussion would not be complete:

1-18 at Country Club of the Poconos @ Big Ridge......