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Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« on: December 08, 2009, 03:25:09 PM »
I read today that Mr. Doak is going to be renovating CC of Detroit next summer. It is my understanding the CCofD was just renovated by Keith Foster 3-4 years ago. Did some thing go wrong of has the membership decided to go another direction? Maybe Tom can chime in with some details.

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2009, 03:32:00 PM »
I will also be curious to know what happens.  I wonder if they want to get back to having it reflect "Colt" more.

Thanks for catching this Tony.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 04:09:58 PM »
I'm guessing they saw what Renaissance did at Blue Mound and decided to get with the program. 

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 04:45:46 PM »
I'm guessing they saw what Renaissance did at Blue Mound and decided to get with the program. 

Mike

Maybe they just like Hairy Bunkers ;) ;D
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 05:09:18 PM »
I found out what's going on and it sounds very exciting for all involved. Sounds like it will be a fun project for Doak and Co.

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 05:14:30 PM »
I found out what's going on and it sounds very exciting for all involved. Sounds like it will be a fun project for Doak and Co.

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL

Very cool, can't wait for details to surface!!
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 05:38:47 PM »
I found out what's going on and it sounds very exciting for all involved. Sounds like it will be a fun project for Doak and Co.

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL

Can you expound?
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Adam Sherer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 07:04:42 PM »
After speaking with the ex-Assistant Superintendent of CCD, it sounds as if the work with Rennaissance is a continuation of the work that was recently completed by Foster.  It is my understanding that the work will encompass the reconstruction of the greens (as opposed to the bunkers that were done by K. Foster)

That is about the extent of the explanation that I got, but I'm sure that T. Doak will have some more valuable input.



"Spem successus alit"
 (success nourishes hope)
 
         - Ross clan motto

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2009, 05:43:40 AM »
"CCD is about to embark on a $2,000,000 renovation of the golf course led by Tom Doak and Renaissance Golf Design Inc. Project will include the complete core-out and re-construction of 19 greens, replacement of all bunker sand, and the potential re-construction of all tees."

Tony Nysse
Pine Tree GC
Boynton Beach, FL
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Bill Hyde

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2009, 07:16:37 AM »
I am a member at CCD and was part of the greens committee that endured a season and a half of chewed finger nails and frayed nerves over soil condition issues that led to black layer on our greens. In the summer of '08, we lost three greens completely and last year we were lucky enough to get by with pretty solid putting surfaces due to an aggressive aerification program and a decidedly cool, not too wet (compared to the East coast) summer. It's been, as you can imagine, a topic of debate as to whether to pursue this project in a fiscally conservative club that is in the metro area with the highest unemployment rate in the country. That being said, our membership had the courage to look out the window and say to themselves that's a special piece of land and we need to take care of it. Fortunately, one of our committee members and the chair of the project happened to be out at Bandon at the same time as TD and struck up a correspondence that led to him getting the project. I should add that we are really happy with what KF did and - due to him getting a big project at Philadelphia CC - we pursued other options. While I was not part of the conversations, my understanding is that TD wanted it to be clear he wasn't coming in and stealing business - which he wasn't. Bottom line, our club has decided to make a very big investment in its course at a most unlikely time and we can't wait to see what Tom and Bruce do to our course. I hope we stay out of their way!

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2009, 07:56:59 AM »
Bill,

A bold move indeed and I commend you and your club for it.  Best of luck with this project I hope it turns out better than expected.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2009, 09:27:10 AM »
Bill,

Thanks for a concrete explanation right from the horses mouth!  Just be sure to document that as well as possible so that gca.com particpants of 2109 know exactly what happened, without a lot of arguing going on between TePaul IV and Tom MacWood the third........ ;)


Seriously, this is the kind of thing that went on a lot in 1918 - such as Ross not being able to handle a lot of his pre WWI commissions and farming out construction, leading to some co-attributions.  At the very least, someone will wonder why TD came in on the heels of Foster and the record should be clear, just in case someone is intersted in future.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Bill Hyde

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2009, 10:02:51 AM »

I will be sure to document the changes pictorially with a before and after. I asked both Bruce and Tom (separately) which of the existing RTJ Jr. (1996) greens they see that in some way reflect what they plan to do and they both said "none." It should be also noted that our 17th hole, an awkward short par 5 (and unrealistic as a par 4 due to impossibly narrow depth of the elevated green) will be lengthened and re-routed. As I said, you will all get to see the results with unprofessional photography and amateur analysis.

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2009, 10:25:41 AM »

I will be sure to document the changes pictorially with a before and after. I asked both Bruce and Tom (separately) which of the existing RTJ Jr. (1996) greens they see that in some way reflect what they plan to do and they both said "none." It should be also noted that our 17th hole, an awkward short par 5 (and unrealistic as a par 4 due to impossibly narrow depth of the elevated green) will be lengthened and re-routed. As I said, you will all get to see the results with unprofessional photography and amateur analysis.

Thanks for the info Bill (and others).  I played the course this year for the first time and thoroughly enjoyed it.  It will be very interesting to see the before and afters.  From what I understand, it sounds like the original redo/restoration project was pretty comprehensive? 

How long is the current 17th from the back marker?  Do you say awkward due solely to the length?  I enjoyed the hole (the green especially), but it was short and easily reached in two (although that in and of itself isn't a bad thing IMO).

Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Bill Hyde

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2009, 10:58:27 AM »
I believe the hole is 485 from the back marker...for me, the awkwardness is that the right half of the green is about 25' deep and demands a driver, 9 iron, sand wedge for an approach that realistically holds the green...or you have to play to the bunker. It's better now than it was prior to KF's work when there was an orphan bunker about 50 yards short. It's a hole where a birdie doesn't feel much like an accomplishment. I guess it is just out of character with the rest of the course for me. Our previous work was a comprehensive bunker restoration...we have accounted for a new grade of sand (current batch is not good-no fault of Keith's) and potentially a tee project if budget allows...a lot of runways now, we'd like to have pads more at ground level and a better set-up for the fairer sex (Par 72 v. Par 75).

Chuck Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 03:11:30 PM »
I believe the hole is 485 from the back marker...for me, the awkwardness is that the right half of the green is about 25' deep and demands a driver, 9 iron, sand wedge for an approach that realistically holds the green...or you have to play to the bunker. It's better now than it was prior to KF's work when there was an orphan bunker about 50 yards short. It's a hole where a birdie doesn't feel much like an accomplishment. I guess it is just out of character with the rest of the course for me. Our previous work was a comprehensive bunker restoration...we have accounted for a new grade of sand (current batch is not good-no fault of Keith's) and potentially a tee project if budget allows...a lot of runways now, we'd like to have pads more at ground level and a better set-up for the fairer sex (Par 72 v. Par 75).

Bill - You've been outed.  I had the good fortune of having dinner with one of your fellow members last month, and he told me what a fine player you are.

Bill Hyde

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 07:27:59 AM »
Chuck: You must have had a lot of wine!

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 11:03:40 AM »
Can't wait to see it and play with all you Michigonians:)

Happy Birthday, Bill!
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 11:33:30 AM »
Can't wait to see it and play with all you Michigonians:)

Happy Birthday, Bill!

We prefer "Michiganders"   :)
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 12:48:27 PM »
Can't wait to see it and play with all you Michigonians:)

Happy Birthday, Bill!

We prefer "Michiganders"   :)

Says the Chicagoan....
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: CC of Detroit-Renovation again?
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2009, 02:52:27 PM »
I've been here ten years now...can I call myself a New Yorker?  I'm beginning to know my way around...

...been here so long I've got to callin' it home...
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

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