GD Best New for 2009 Comes Out -- Sagebrush Wins in Canada

[Adam Clayman]

It's a very big upset since nobody ever mentioned this course on the internal Golf Digest panelist web site.  It seemed apparent that Rock Creek and Martis Camp would fight it out for 1 and 2.

This list is always the most disappointing to me, as year after year some dark horse course comes along and bumps a very good course.

Joel, It does seem odd that a course nobodies ever heard of, can surprise the few individuals that make an earnest attempt to stay on top of what's new and upcoming in the design world. I've heard stories about a few who try to manipulate these "new" rankings by inviting enough specific individuals (friendly to the archie or style) from a panel. Is this the only way these outcomes could come about?  

Although I will admit, Cory Lewis' endorsement would be enough for me to think it might be a very special place.

[Garland Bayley]

Apparently Golf Digest is not up to Jim Kennedy's standards for rating and reporting. They would seem to inidcate that you always pay $89 to play Palouse Ridge.

Seriously, I just don't get it. This is the second publication to put Palouse Ridge in 2nd place for best new. I predict it will fall faster from the ratings than Tetherow, which it somehow managed to beat.

I don't even consider Palouse Ridge to be a top Harbottle.
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42383.0/
Shows it falling short of Juniper, and I believe it falls well short of Olympic Gold Mountain.

..........also, the rate you quoted in your review (nicely written) is a little misleading as it's the absolute highest rate you could have paid.

You could have played it for $39.00

[Andy Troeger]

Kyle,
I am a GD panelist for what that's worth. The reason courses are just evaluated on the finished product is that otherwise you would essentially have to get "before and after" ratings for each club on the remodel listing. Unless courses want to give GD "notice" about their renovation plans that can be rather challenging to do.

Adam and Joel,
My opinion is that sometimes the Best New lists suffer a bit because the first ratings for each course tend to come from local raters. How many people do you think played and rated Rock Creek, Martis Camp, and Pikewood National? I wouldn't be surprised if Cornerstone held its own with that group as well from the #4 position. If the groups of raters at each course is mostly different, even if they are using the same system, that can create some challenges with these early lists.

And given that very few of us have played it, I also think Pikewood National looks like a cool place and I had certainly heard of it before--maybe it is that good.


Garland,
I'm admittedly not a big fan of the Dye Course at French Lick either. It has created very mixed reviews amongst others I have talked to. This group has not been particularly kind to Pound Ridge either. Perhaps this wasn't the best year for new public offerings? Although I must admit, the majority of golfers I've heard from like Palouse Ridge, so your opinion might be an outlier (as mine appears to be for French Lick given its #1 ranking).

[Ed Oden]

I also did a search on the restoration work at Charlotte C.C.  and couldn't come up with much.  Has there been any discussion or photos of the work posted?

Cory, here are a couple of previous threads...

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37307.0/

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,34170.0/

...and here is a set of photos that is a bit more extensive than those I posted in the first thread...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eko_gfl/sets/72157605080911673/

Click on the thumbnail of the picture you want to view and then click on "All Sizes" above to pull it up in the largest size.

Ed

[Tom_Doak]

Well, it's not as bad as Ballyneal finishing sixth and Stone Eagle ninth a few years back.

So I guess I should feel great about coming in second with another of the best courses I've done.

[Andy Silis]

Absolutely mind boggling that Cal Club and Rock Creek Cattle didn't win in their respective categories!

[Joel_Stewart]

If the above is how the GD Best Remodel is voted upon I think that  Princess Anne CC even being on the list with places like Cal Club and Olympia Fields is an amazing accomplishment.  Princess Anne was a really crappy course before the remodel (sorry to anyone that is a member there, but it was amazingly lousy).  
[/quote]

Kye:

The problem this year and probably the next few is there are so few courses to evaluate.  Under the best remodel are two clubs in Monterey California by Gene Bates.  They are also god awful terrible, but because of the limited number of courses they made the list.  You can now bet your ass that these course at Fort Ord and Princess Anne are ramping up their marketing to say they are a "Golf Digest best new winner" and sucker in the general public.

It's a shame because a while back a panelist suggested they cut the list from top 10 to top 5 to reflect the limited number of courses but it was ignored.

Adam:  GD has hired someone to look at the trends and votes to see if the results are skewed and he hasn't found any evidence in that.  Furthermore, they started throwing out the the outliers, those votes that are more than 2 standard deviations away from the norm.  I'll trust Kye and others that Charlotte CC must be really really really good to beat Cal Club but as you know Cal Club is a remarkable course and should be considered for a top 100 spot on next years list.  

[Dale Jackson]

Adam:  GD has hired someone to look at the trends and votes to see if the results are skewed and he hasn't found any evidence in that.  Furthermore, they started throwing out the the outliers, those votes that are more than 2 standard deviations away from the norm.

Just to be clear that someone is Dean Knuth, who was formerly the Director of Handicapping for the USGA, and is one of the co-founders of the slope system.  He has also designed missile guidance systems.  He is extremely knowledgeable about all things statistics and golf.  If you want more information see his website - www.popeofslope.com

He also sent out report cards to all GD raters earlier this year.  I, for one, found it quite helpful.

I second Joel's comments that the low number of courses shows some of those facilities in a favourable light.  Very surprised about Cal Club though.

[Adam Clayman]

Their website already has the marketing at the top of their page.
"Best new private in the U.S. by GD."

[Kye Goalby]

Kye:

The problem this year and probably the next few is there are so few courses to evaluate.  Under the best remodel are two clubs in Monterey California by Gene Bates.  They are also god awful terrible, but because of the limited number of courses they made the list.  You can now bet your ass that these course at Fort Ord and Princess Anne are ramping up their marketing to say they are a "Golf Digest best new winner" and sucker in the general public.

Joel,

I was not saying Princess Anne is now "God awful terrible", far from it.  It was really bad before the work done to it.  It is now pretty darn good.  As a matter of fact I think with what we had to work with, what it started as, and what is there now it may be the most dramatic improvement in a golf course I have ever seen.    I was just surprised with all its handicaps (described in my earlier post) that it made the list without its earlier incarnation being taken into consideration.

I do realize the number of courses opening has shrunk dramatically over the past few years, but there have been a lot of clubs still doing remodels, and it is far and away the only work going on in the states these day.     So, depending on how much work needs to be done on a course  to qualify for this category, I would think if the 2 courses at Fort Ord are as lousy as you say, then both of them making the list is more an indictment of the process than the quantity of courses eligible.  

[Jim_Kennedy]

Amazes me how Wine Valley gets overlooked, but that's rating differences I guess.

I did the hole tour of Pikewood and I do hope the last photo is an optical illusion.  <---- this could happen to you

[Adam Clayman]

Jim, It really isn't that amazing. Is it? This last year, nearly everyone, cut down on their recreational travel. It makes total sense to me that those course closest to major cities (have the most number of panelists) would receive the best results. While Morgantown West Virginia isn't exactly the Hampton's, it is close enough to a number of major markets to qualify.

My first reaction to the list was how obvious the regional bias is.

[Cory Brown]

Ed,

Thanks for doing my legwork for me.  The work at Charlotte really is pretty impressive.  Just looking at the pictures it is hard to imagine that thousands of trees were removed.  I'm sure that is only a small percentage of what was on the property.  Did they shut down the course and do all of the work at once, or was it broken up over a number years?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Adam,
I don't see the regional bias.  Everything on the top 10 public, save Dye's at PR, are either mid or west U.S.

On the private top 10 it's 50% east coast/ 50% rest of US.

I did notice a real bias in the best new Canadian list, they're all in Canada. What's that aboot?

[Scott Weersing]

If Blue Top Ridge is one of the top 10 public courses there must have been 12 public courses that opened this year.  Very mediocre.

Charlotte CC's ranking is well deserved. 

What about best new affordable public course? It seems that so few affordable courses opened from June 2008 to May 2009, that they did not have enough courses for the category.

This one would seem to be the winner by default as it is less than $75.

10. The Preserve
on Rathbun Lake Moravia, Iowa
Yards 6,988 Par 72 Fee $59, Kevin Norby
641-724-1400
honeycreekresort.com

[Matt_Ward]

Pound Ridge in NY is not that good of a course to merit a higher placement than Sand Hollow -- the UT layout should have easily finished within the top five.

The same holds true for Palouse Ridge -- I liked the WA layout but the Hurricane, UT-based layout is better.

[Tommy Williamsen]

 
Kye:

The problem this year and probably the next few is there are so few courses to evaluate.  Under the best remodel are two clubs in Monterey California by Gene Bates.  They are also god awful terrible, but because of the limited number of courses they made the list.  You can now bet your ass that these course at Fort Ord and Princess Anne are ramping up their marketing to say they are a "Golf Digest best new winner" and sucker in the general public.

It's a shame because a while back a panelist suggested they cut the list from top 10 to top 5 to reflect the limited number of courses but it was ignored.

Adam:  GD has hired someone to look at the trends and votes to see if the results are skewed and he hasn't found any evidence in that.  Furthermore, they started throwing out the the outliers, those votes that are more than 2 standard deviations away from the norm.  I'll trust Kye and others that Charlotte CC must be really really really good to beat Cal Club but as you know Cal Club is a remarkable course and should be considered for a top 100 spot on next years list.  

This year there were only 17 best new private courses and 17 best new public to evaluate.  I was the panelist that suggested that we limit the best new to five.  i thought anymore would make the listing suspect.  On the other hand there were 40 best remodeled courses.

As far as Charlotte is concerned, I have a lot of material that I can share when I have some time.  I thought Ron Prichard did a masterful job. I'll start a new thread in a few days.

[Greg Tallman]

Pikewood National just got a new Superintendent who was an Assistant at Oakmont. From the sounds of it, it has a great owner, is built on an AMAZING piece of property and that conditioning will continue to get better!

Tony Nysse
Pine Treee GC
Boynton Beach, FL

Anthony, who is the Super?

Ok, It looks like a pretty nice golf course, but I really can't understand how it could be better then RCCC. The sites are not in the same ballpark. And its in Morgantown!

$$$

Ryan, Have you played both? Either? Take the names off the design credits and would you have the same reaction? So it is in heaven... should that count against it?

[Garland Bayley]

Amazes me how Wine Valley gets overlooked, but that's rating differences I guess.

I did the hole tour of Pikewood and I do hope the last photo is an optical illusion.  <---- this could happen to you

Article says May 1, 2008 to April 30, 2009. Nothing to be amazed about.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,
I'm admittedly not a big fan of the Dye Course at French Lick either. It has created very mixed reviews amongst others I have talked to. This group has not been particularly kind to Pound Ridge either. Perhaps this wasn't the best year for new public offerings? Although I must admit, the majority of golfers I've heard from like Palouse Ridge, so your opinion might be an outlier (as mine appears to be for French Lick given its #1 ranking).

That's your problem Andy! You talk to Golf Digest raters! Pullman, WA not being the hotbed of golf won't get a lot of players. But it seems the three people that have played it that are contributing to this thread, question its being ranked as high as second. That's 100%! Must make the Golf Digest opinion the outlier!

[Andy Troeger]

Garland,
I am a Golf Digest rater--you don't think those GolfWeek guys are going to talk to me do you?    Wait, they liked Palouse Ridge more than we did rating it #2 overall...

[Garland Bayley]

Andy,

Didn't you and your GD cohorts rate ANGC #1 this last year? How did it fair in the first unofficial GCA.com ratings?

You know home much I love ponds. On #17, Palouse Ridge has one of the ugliest ponds I have ever seen. When I first saw it from afar, I thought the local sewage treatment facility must be near the course. It should have be buried in the ratings for having such an affront to the players artistic sensibilities.

[Jim Nugent]

Adam:  GD has hired someone to look at the trends and votes to see if the results are skewed and he hasn't found any evidence in that.  

Just to be clear that someone is Dean Knuth, who was formerly the Director of Handicapping for the USGA, and is one of the co-founders of the slope system. 

Co-founder of slope does not instill confidence in me. 

[Ryan Farrow]

Pikewood National just got a new Superintendent who was an Assistant at Oakmont. From the sounds of it, it has a great owner, is built on an AMAZING piece of property and that conditioning will continue to get better!

Tony Nysse
Pine Treee GC
Boynton Beach, FL

Anthony, who is the Super?

Ok, It looks like a pretty nice golf course, but I really can't understand how it could be better then RCCC. The sites are not in the same ballpark. And its in Morgantown!

$$$

Ryan, Have you played both? Either? Take the names off the design credits and would you have the same reaction? So it is in heaven... should that count against it?

Greg, I helped build Rock Creek. And with that bias aside, its easily in my top 5. Unless you want to come out and say that Pikewood is just as good as Seminole, Riviera, Oakmont..... go ahead.... I have not seen the place, but from the pictures, I find nothing that unique about it. I am not saying that its not a good course, I am just saying I find it hard to believe there was a better course out there than RCCC this year, or last. And trust me this has absolutely nothing to do with who designed the courses.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Garland,
Interesting, so if a course opened in mid-April of 2009, as WV did (according to the Olympian and the Seattle Times), it has the chance of being best new for 2010?. 

This is harder than knowing if you bought a new car or a leftover.