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Anthony Gray

Chambers Bay ........Hole 5
« on: December 03, 2009, 11:05:33 AM »

  490 Par 4  HCP 9   Elevated tee. Open fairway. Great driving hole. Bunker fronting gren in Road Hole position.
  
  

  

  

  

  

  


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« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 02:15:06 PM by Anthony Gray »
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Anthony Gray

Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 11:14:55 AM »


  Contours around the bunker funnel everything into it.

  ARG

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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2009, 11:18:07 AM »
Quote from: Anthony Gray on December 03, 2009, 11:14:55 AM
  Contours around the bunker funnel everything into it.

  ARG

Not according to that last pic of yours.   :P

Another view:
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Anthony Gray

Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2009, 11:31:26 AM »


  Scott,

  That is where the shot out of the bunker ended up.

   Anthony

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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2009, 11:37:44 AM »
Quote from: Anthony Gray on December 03, 2009, 11:31:26 AM


  Scott,

  That is where the shot out of the bunker ended up.

   Anthony



Then according to your statement, it should have rolled back in!

I'm more commenting on the rough around the bunker, preventing 'everything' around it from rolling in.
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Anthony Gray

Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2009, 11:55:20 AM »
Quote from: Scott_Burroughs on December 03, 2009, 11:37:44 AM
Quote from: Anthony Gray on December 03, 2009, 11:31:26 AM


  Scott,

  That is where the shot out of the bunker ended up.

   Anthony



Then according to your statement, it should have rolled back in!

I'm more commenting on the rough around the bunker, preventing 'everything' around it from rolling in.


  It's too hairy Scott.

  Anthony




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Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2009, 11:59:46 AM »
This is one of those holes I fail to grasp the merits of...

It's a lot of fluff.  Super high dropshot tee with a nice water backdrop.  Okay, that's fresh, but not exactly killer golf course architecture.

The fairway is like a freeway, and can someone make the case that the green is more approachable from one side or the other?

Hence, I fail to see any strategic merit in the tee shot.  

 
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2009, 12:03:39 PM »
MDugger, the green is easily more approachable from the right - I witnessed the talented John Kirk work a low-stinger around the little lions mouth from the right side.  What the architect gives you off the tee, he takes away near the green.  I like this hole immensely.

Mike
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Anthony Gray

Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2009, 12:06:31 PM »
Quote from: Michael Dugger on December 03, 2009, 11:59:46 AM
This is one of those holes I fail to grasp the merits of...

It's a lot of fluff.  Super high dropshot tee with a nice water backdrop.  Okay, that's fresh, but not exactly killer golf course architecture.

The fairway is like a freeway, and can someone make the case that the green is more approachable from one side or the other?

Hence, I fail to see any strategic merit in the tee shot.  

 

  Michal,

 That may be what is good about it. Options on how you choose to play it. It will definatly give the pros a fearless grip it and rip it play that we all like to see. I agree with your assesment, but the things you mentioned just may make it fun to watch. It is a nice breather after the former hole. Thanks for your input Michael.

  Anthony

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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2009, 12:32:30 PM »
Quote from: Michael Dugger on December 03, 2009, 11:59:46 AM
This is one of those holes I fail to grasp the merits of...

It's a lot of fluff.  Super high dropshot tee with a nice water backdrop.  Okay, that's fresh, but not exactly killer golf course architecture.

The fairway is like a freeway, and can someone make the case that the green is more approachable from one side or the other?

Hence, I fail to see any strategic merit in the tee shot. 

 

And to boot for a course that doesn't allow carts, its sure ironic that it has a fugly one messing up all the aesthics!!  ;D
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Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2009, 12:35:56 PM »
This hole has been absolutely butchered by the US Open tightening of the fairways.

The whole point of this hole was that the entire hole played from the pot bunker backwards. The bunker and the green contours dictated what drive you had to hit. You really need to hit the right side of the fairway if the pin is on the right and vice versa.

With the new rough line on the right side, the entire right fairway option has been taken away and with it the whole interest of this hole.

Thankfully, the groundskeeper intends to restore the original fairway width after the US Open.
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Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2009, 12:38:17 PM »
MDugger,

For what it's worth, this hole can play pretty long.  With a left pin, the bunker makes it a really dicey approach, with the right side being preferred for most.  It's totally playable from either side, but most people will feel more comfortable on the right.

The approach is also slightly elevated, so with a left pin, that bunker is pretty menacing as it's one you just don't want to be in.

Also, I like how they built up the right side of the green so you can't get away with something right of the green kicking on and toward the middle.  You have to at least keep it inside the right edge of the collar to get the reward.

It may not be the greatest hole in the world, but all things considered, it's pretty darn good.
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Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2009, 12:59:20 PM »
Quote from: Richard Choi on December 03, 2009, 12:35:56 PM
This hole has been absolutely butchered by the US Open tightening of the fairways.

The whole point of this hole was that the entire hole played from the pot bunker backwards. The bunker and the green contours dictated what drive you had to hit. You really need to hit the right side of the fairway if the pin is on the right and vice versa.

With the new rough line on the right side, the entire right fairway option has been taken away and with it the whole interest of this hole.

I knew something looked different in Anthony's pic.

Here's his (presumably fairly recent):


Compared to mine, taken the 2nd weekend the course was open (1 Jul, 2007), and you can see the narrowing of the fairway from the right:


Richard, do they intend to use the alternate green (at left) as a driveable par 4 during the U.S. Open?

Quote
Thankfully, the groundskeeper intends to restore the original fairway width after the US Open.

Famous last words.  Oh, and that's 5.5 years away, in June, 2015.  They could start growing a rough in 2014 and get it the desired thickness/height by the following year.  It must be narrowed so early for the U.S. Amateur next year.
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Matt_Ward

Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2009, 01:36:45 PM »
How far is the carry over the right side where the rough area juts out?

If one plays down the right side is there any turbo boost ?

Last question -- prevailing wind patterns during summer months is ?

t h a n k s . . .
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Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2009, 02:06:06 PM »
Scott, with the weather around here and the slow growing nature of fescue, the really cannot take chances with changing the rough lines between Am and Open. I understand, but I am certainly not happy about it.

Matt, the rough area on the right is about 280~290 from sand and about 300~320 from the tips. There is no turbo boost, but the fairway is rippled so you will get some boost and some will stop dead.

The prevailing wind is from the southwest (from water).
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Matt_Ward

Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2009, 02:12:18 PM »
Richard:

When you say southwest -- are you saying the hole generally plays into a headwind off the water and into the player when standing on the tee.

one other thing-- is there any advantage by playing down the right side ?
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Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2009, 02:13:19 PM »
Quote from: Matt_Ward on December 03, 2009, 01:36:45 PM
How far is the carry over the right side where the rough area juts out?

If one plays down the right side is there any turbo boost ?

Last question -- prevailing wind patterns during summer months is ?

t h a n k s . . .

about 400 yards. Strong 3 wood for you.... ;)
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Anthony Gray

Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2009, 02:16:25 PM »
Quote from: Matt_Ward on December 03, 2009, 02:12:18 PM
Richard:

When you say southwest -- are you saying the hole generally plays into a headwind off the water and into the player when standing on the tee.

one other thing-- is there any advantage by playing down the right side ?

 Wind is from the left and into you.

  ARG

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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2009, 02:45:39 PM »
Quote from: Scott_Burroughs on December 03, 2009, 11:37:44 AM
Quote from: Anthony Gray on December 03, 2009, 11:31:26 AM


  Scott,

  That is where the shot out of the bunker ended up.

   Anthony



Then according to your statement, it should have rolled back in!

I'm more commenting on the rough around the bunker, preventing 'everything' around it from rolling in.

Scott, he said funnel, not black hole!
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2009, 03:56:08 PM »
Quote from: Matt_Ward on December 03, 2009, 02:12:18 PM
one other thing-- is there any advantage by playing down the right side ?

Only if the pin is on the right side. If the pin is on the left, you want to be on the left side. You do have more dicey lies in the left, however.
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Anthony Gray

Re: Chambers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2009, 04:17:56 PM »


  I like the mow line from 2007 better. What do you think?

  ARG

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Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2009, 04:30:33 PM »
I like the new mow line better actually. Remember that hideous path up the right side? Well, now it doesn't interfere with the aesthetics of the hole nearly as much.  :)
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Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chambers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2009, 05:51:21 PM »
The right rough mow line was far better before.  Now it looks stupid, unnatural, forced, etc, etc, etc. 
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"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanbers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2009, 07:27:10 PM »
Quote from: Richard Choi on December 03, 2009, 12:35:56 PM
Thankfully, the groundskeeper intends to restore the original fairway width after the US Open.

So 6 years from now they'll restore the fairway back to something they decided to change less than a year after the course opened?  I like the original fairway too, but if it's worth doing, it's worth doing now, not 6 years from now.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 07:29:29 PM by David Schofield »
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Anthony Gray

Re: Chambers Bay ........Hole 5
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2009, 08:27:20 PM »


  I do not like the mow line now. The hole is protected by the bunker and length.

 
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