Trump buys Pine Hill in NJ...and sells a lot of memberships

[mike_malone]

 Mike Sweeney,

   You can choose either Liberty Place or Comcast tower for your aiming; that's options !!! Seriously, though, why would you place a bunker to the left of that wonderful slope on the right? That is goofy.

[Jeff Spittel]

I rather enjoyed the course the handful of times I played it.

You can say what you want about his style, but I've heard nothing but good things about the way he runs his golf properties.

[Bill Rocco]

I believe Mike Cirba hits the nail on the head....Trump has money, and loves golf. I would argue he is saving Pine Hills (from the previous company) and in an age where courses are closing down every month we should welcome the Donald. Lets just hope he is better at Golf Course Management than running a casino or football leagues.

[cary lichtenstein]

I playued it and thought it was very good

[Troy Alderson]

The concept of joining one course and being able to play others in the stable seems clever.

Donald Trump has proven to be a successful real estate developer and promoter.

If golf fails, what are the properties zoned for ?

Hi Patrick,

So do you think Trump is trying to envigorate the golf course industry or do you think he is such a golf nut with googles of money that he has dicided to buy golf courses as his pet projects?

Troy

[Ted Kramer]

I used to be a member. The course is solid. It isn't GREAT, but it is a very good golf course. If any of you "semantics obsessed" gca.com members would like to to pursue and or debate my definition of "not great but very good" I'll be happy to do so With that being said, I resigned my membership a few years ago because of the way I was treated by Empire Golf's "guy of the week" who happened to be running the place at one point in time. He was so rude at that one moment that I almost had no choice but to resign my membership. I would never be a part of any club that was represented by such an impossibly boorish person. The fact that I often felt "misled" regarding the state of the membership and the possibility of the club really going private only made my decision to leave easier. There were a bunch of great guys as members and I also really liked the head and asst. pro. If I still lived in the area I'd be more than a little interested in re-looking at a membership under Mr. Trump. I wish nothing but the best to Mr. Trump and any of the members at Pine Hill.

Best,
Ted

[Mike Hendren]

Has anyone ever seen Matt Ward and Donald Trump at the same time?  I'm just asking.

Bogey

[Joe Bausch]

Hopefully some of Trump's money to improve the course will include cutting down these trees slowly but surely blocking the view of the par 3 8th green:

[Dan Herrmann]

Time for a bold statement, "Donald Trump has been good for golf".

Sure, I think he's done some kitschy stuff, but he's investing in the game in these horrible economic times, and that's a very good thing.  And, although I've not been there, Bedminster looks pretty damn good from the TV and photos I've seen.

While I really don't like his comments on Bandon, I think he's an important recession-era patron of the game.

[Cliff Hamm]

If Donald Trump was investing in affordable golf he would then be considered "good for the game".  As it is his courses tend to be above high end.  Exorbitant initiation fees or daily fees.  Emphasis on frills.  It is often discussed here that golf should be about golf and not the extras, especially dining.  Mr. Trump is all about the extras.  I might propose that he is damaging golf by making the game more expensive and extravagant then it should be.

[JSlonis]

For the course itself, Trump has vowed to bring back Tom Fazio, the original designer, to "restore the course back to its original state,"

Have they changed the course that much since they first opened? Or does this mean changing it to how the Donald wants it?


Also noticed the $10k membership down payment...that's pretty low for Philly right? I'm surprised (regardless of the current economic state) that membership hasn't been more popular. It looks like a pretty neat golf course.

I don't understand that statement from Mr. Trump.  I don't think there has been much in the way of architectural changes to the course since it opened, perhaps he was referring to conditioning.  It'll be interesting to see what he can do with the club.  There will be quite a few challenges.  The economic issues of membership are obvious.  I would think the general routing of the course will discourage a few as well.  It is not a course that is walker friendly at all. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 90% of the rounds played there were cart rounds.

[Ted Kramer]

For the course itself, Trump has vowed to bring back Tom Fazio, the original designer, to "restore the course back to its original state,"

Have they changed the course that much since they first opened? Or does this mean changing it to how the Donald wants it?


Also noticed the $10k membership down payment...that's pretty low for Philly right? I'm surprised (regardless of the current economic state) that membership hasn't been more popular. It looks like a pretty neat golf course.

I don't understand that statement from Mr. Trump.  I don't think there has been much in the way of architectural changes to the course since it opened, perhaps he was referring to conditioning.  It'll be interesting to see what he can do with the club.  There will be quite a few challenges.  The economic issues of membership are obvious.  I would think the general routing of the course will discourage a few as well.  It is not a course that is walker friendly at all. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 90% of the rounds played there were cart rounds.

When I was a member I walked. It wasn't easy, but definitely do-able. Plenty of the older guys walked too. Walker friendly . . . no, but walkable . . .yes.

[JSlonis]

For the course itself, Trump has vowed to bring back Tom Fazio, the original designer, to "restore the course back to its original state,"

Have they changed the course that much since they first opened? Or does this mean changing it to how the Donald wants it?


Also noticed the $10k membership down payment...that's pretty low for Philly right? I'm surprised (regardless of the current economic state) that membership hasn't been more popular. It looks like a pretty neat golf course.

I don't understand that statement from Mr. Trump.  I don't think there has been much in the way of architectural changes to the course since it opened, perhaps he was referring to conditioning.  It'll be interesting to see what he can do with the club.  There will be quite a few challenges.  The economic issues of membership are obvious.  I would think the general routing of the course will discourage a few as well.  It is not a course that is walker friendly at all. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 90% of the rounds played there were cart rounds.

When I was a member I walked. It wasn't easy, but definitely do-able. Plenty of the older guys walked too. Walker friendly . . . no, but walkable . . .yes.

Ted,

You are the man! I wouldn't want a steady diet of that trek.  Although I'd be in much better shape if I did.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I heard a Trump interview on XM146PGA Golf network today. He said that he has sold 101 new memberships since he bought the club.

[Joe Bausch]

And they are making some changes to the course too.  A friend of mine played there and relayed the info.  I'll see if I can't get the nitty gritty details.

[Jason Walker]

Joe-

Which 'nitty-gritty' details would you like? 

Most changes are to the back tees--with the exception of two holes--but from a large-scale perspective there has been significant tree removal across the entire course...has a much different feel to it on many holes....especially 1, 4, 5, 9, 10, 12, 14, 18.

Here's a quick summary of on-course changes....

New tee box on 1, added approx 50 yards to back tees.  This is a good thing, Number 1 was a Par 4-4.5 for most long hitters due to the nature of the fairway.

Number 5...the waste bunker has been dug out and replaced with a small lake.  When I first heard the idea I thought it was ridiculous.  Has turned out to be the biggest positive surprise of all the changes.  Looks fantastic, and with all of the closely mowed areas to the front and right of the green that were added over the last several years, plays great too.  No question it's more penal, but that waste bunker was a maintenance disaster.

Number 8....new tee box, not yet opened.  Will make the hole play approx 230-240 from the back tees.  Talk of clearing more trees and eventually turning this into a short par 4 in the 300 yard range....something many of us who have played there for years have been pushing for.

Number 9...now a par 5 with approx 120 yards added straight back from the original tee boxes.  This just opened.  I will say I'm not really a fan of this change, but I've only played it as a Par 5 once.

Number 13...new tee box across the back cart path.  Back tees play approx 190 now.  Great move.  Adds a ton more tee options to this hole.

Number 14...new tee box, adds approx 30 yards to the back tees.  Again, similar to Number 1, this hole needed more distance from the back tees.  This tee box adds an entirely new dimension to the hole for the long hitter.  Still potentially reachable in two, but there's a real decision to be made as the second will be played with a fairway wood--and the layup is no picnic with lots of options.

Number 15...new tee box, adds approx 20 yards to the back tees.   New angle to the hole.  In the past, long hitters could cut the corner and this new tee box removes that option.

Number 16...new tee box, across the cart path.  Back tees play approx 210 yards.

Significant upgrading of the clubhouse and practice areas are underway.  All in all, I've been really impressed with the changes to the golf course--with the exception of the conversion of Number 9 to a par-5.  In addition, the conditions have improved significantly and in the usual Trump style the aesthetics and off-course areas have also improved.


Joe--if you want to come out and play and photograph let me know.

[Robert Emmons]

Jason,

what group handled the renovation?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Similar to this year, I choked a finish in the US Open qualifyiing a few years ago, and missed by two.  I left the course thinking about what could have been built.  Like most Fazio courses, the greens set up so that there was no prefered angle of attack from the fairway.  I thought the par 3's were pretty solid.  The 10th required a little bit of thought on the approach, though, I think the back left was probably unpinnable under firm conditions.  What was most memorable is not on the property, but is probably a huge long term impediment for achieving super-high end prestige--the surrounding area.  Nothing like hearing gunfire from the nearby projects while trying to make a putt!  The drive to the NJ turnpike is very similar to when you make a wrong turn on 78 at Newark airport and head into Newark.   There are quite a few great courses bordering unsavory areas, but the location usually does affect the membership

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Joe Logan confirms Trump's claims with an interview of the club's GM. He also refers to Jason Walker's post above about course work and confirms Tom Fazio as the architect:

http://www.myphillygolf.com/detail.asp?id=5097&pid=20

[JSlonis]

Robert,

I think you overstate the condition of the surrounding area a bit. While it's not the best, it certainly isn't the "projects".  If you want to see reaI projects, Camden is not far away. Pine Hill and Clementon is a far cry from Newark. I used to practice at Pine Hill quite often, have played there numerous times and I never heard gunfire. When you are out on the course, it is pretty remote out there.

If you travelled through the projects to get to the course, you need a new GPS. 

[Buck Wolter]

I heard The Donald on an XM interview this week. He said he called Pine Hill-- Pine Valley #2 which I thought was clever. He also said his Scotish Project was just given the go ahead and that he had hired Martin Hawtree to design it. Basically he said he only buys great golf courses and does what he would do with any investment -- fixes them by investing and puts the right people in place to run them.