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Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2009, 10:16:38 PM »
Matt,
I agree its not a great track, but Burlington County courses are woeful compared to other counties throughout NJ.  Yes the Links may be low on the Doak scale, but most Burlington County courses would be in the negative.  Does the Doak Scale go in intergers? ;D

JeffTodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2009, 10:36:15 PM »
I don't agree with Matt that it's a zero, but that's not that most outrageous suggestion I've heard. I'd give it a 2, personally. It's not awful, but it's close

Burlington County is a wasteland of good golf, it's true, but even when ranking the Links among its closest competition it would rank 3rd by a wide margin of the three courses within a few miles; Little Mill, Medford Village, and The Links.

I know one member there and even he calls it "The Stinks".  ;)

Bob Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2009, 10:47:58 PM »
I lived in Burlington County for 20 years and have to agree it's pretty dismal.  I would suggest that Riverton (Ross) is the best followed by Laurel Creek (Palmer) and Medford Village (Gordon).  Goes downhill pretty fast after that.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 10:51:57 PM by Bob Harris »

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2009, 10:29:34 AM »
Mr. Jimbo Slonis:

Are you telling us you might have qualified for the US Mid-Am on the wrong course like a course that was not actually holding a Mid-Am qualifier? If so, that is a pretty neat trick for certain, and I will see to it that you will be suspended from GAP golf next year and sent to bed without supper for at least a month.

Tom,

Based on Rick's initial review, I thought I might have ventured down the wrong street for a stretch of holes. ;D

I had actually never played the course before this year.  Obviously with it being fairly close to where I live, I've heard about it, but based on what I'd heard I never saw reason to go play it.  I played there for the first time in the Philly Am qualifier in May and then when I saw it was also hosting the US Mid qualifier my first reaction was..."You've got to be kidding?"  I was thinking about going to another site, but there wasn't anything all that interesting close by.  After a couple practice rounds the week prior to the event, I made my mind up that I was going to really like the course for at least a week.  That way, I could accept it for what it was and just try to play as good as I could.  I actually think that helped me that day because there were alot of other guys really grumbling about the course and the conditions.  To be fair to the Supt, we had a ton of rain a day or two prior to the qualifier, so there really wasn't much he could do about the softness. We played the ball down and it was a mudball day to be sure.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 10:31:13 AM by JSlonis »

TEPaul

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2009, 11:25:46 AM »
Jamie:

To be honest I really can't remember anything much about that course but isn't it one of those that has just a ton of glaring containment mounding and shaping down the sides of each hole? If so that kind of thing definitely was a type and style of architecture of an era----its era!

Matt_Ward

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2009, 11:39:36 AM »
Jeff:

If you can stomach the place my hat is off to you. The Links is akin to White Castle hamburgers -- certain stomachs can eat just about anything. I think my appetite -- golf and food alike -- has grown beyond such slop.

I'd rather hit balls at a driving range then subject myself to that.

Burlington doesn't have much -- so whether the place ranks 3rd or 300th it's still the same for me. Skip it.

Rick:

The word "great" and The Links in Marlton are as far apart as earth is from pluto.

Debating how bad something is becomes a pointless exericse. Burlington doesn't have much -- no doubt about that -- fortunately there are places nearby that can assist you. The Links is truly a mess -- the best thing for the place would be to serve as a re-enactment of famous battle scenes so that whatever is there can be forever destroyed. ;D

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2009, 11:43:01 AM »
Jamie:

To be honest I really can't remember anything much about that course but isn't it one of those that has just a ton of glaring containment mounding and shaping down the sides of each hole? If so that kind of thing definitely was a type and style of architecture of an era----its era!

No containment mounding off to the sides.  For the majority of the front nine, there is OB and homes on both sides, with a few red hazards mixed in for good measure and the back nine isn't much different. It's just tight and quirky for the most part.  There just isn't anything that jumps out to you as good. It's not the most awful course but you wouldn't want a steady diet of it either.

Matt,


Too funny.  I take it that if I hear of a slot opening up for the member guest, I should skip calling you. ;)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 11:49:30 AM by JSlonis »

Matt_Ward

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2009, 11:49:06 AM »
JSlonis:

God Bless you if you see The Links as not being on the very short list of places to avoid at all costs.

Happy to hear that there are people who can stomach such stuff.  ;D

TEPaul:

Yes, it's an era ideed -

that means the following ...

E-veryone
R-un
A-way

Got it now -- ERA !!! ;D


JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2009, 11:52:31 AM »
Matt,

I try to see the good in everything. ;D  That said, I'd exhaust every effort to play somewhere else first.


Matt_Ward

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2009, 09:39:04 AM »
JSlonis, et al:

The issue for me is that places like The Links are really non-descript and that's being very generous.

There's nothing there for anyone to remotely even contemplating a visit.

Thanksfully, South Jersey has improved on the golf front from say 25-30 years ago - no doubt many of those options are still outside the aforementioned county -- save for the likes of Little Mill -- which incidentally is quite good and worth a look for those not familiar with it.


Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2009, 10:43:22 AM »
Matt,
I never used the word "great" to describe The Links.  I said it had a couple neat holes.  Look at some of the other courses of Burlington County to compare it to that are not good at all- Golden Pheasant, Rancocas, Ramblewood, Indian Springs, Willowbrook.  Think about it, Burlington County is the biggest county in NJ and it has the worst golf courses.  I just meant compared to most other courses in Burlington County it is not as bad.  I think people on the site misunderstood me and thought I was ready to mail my nomination for The Links into Golf Digest's Top 100.  The old saying is," in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king."  Unfortunately with Burlington County, there is not much hope, with the exception being Little Mill and one or two others.

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2009, 10:45:19 AM »
Matt,
You sound like a "Jersey Guy"  Just curious how would you rank you top 20 in South Jersey?  Let's Say from Trenton south.

Matt_Ward

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2009, 11:29:16 AM »
Rick:

You said the place was a "nice surprise" and had some "neat holes."

I don't see it as a "nice surprise" or in having anything remotely connected to being "neat."

To banter back and forth about whether certain places are goat tracks or dogs is of little consequence to me and frankly a number of other people too.  Links is a good shag field -- that's about it for me. If others think it's marvelous then by all means they should knock themselves out and play there to their hearts content.

I feel your pain -- to borrow the Clinton line -- in regards to Burlington County.

Rick, I never said you were voting for the course for some sort of high honors (e.g. Digest, et al). But GCA is a site to salute -- at least I think so -- places that are off the path but really are a "nice surprise" and do have "neat" holes. Links has neither in my opinion. It would be akin to going to White Castle and expecting some sort of cuisine.

Last point you asked me on a separate post -- happy to recommend a top 20 for south jersey courses. are you speaking about an overall listing or just public ?




Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2009, 12:00:13 PM »
Matt,
Never meant to do any bantering.  I just made one post and the next thing I know I was bombarded by "shag fields and "dog tracks"  I just said it had some neat holes.  I was just asking if anyone ever played it.  I know its not even in the top 50 in the state of NJ.  Sorry if anyone took my initial post the wrong way.  Like I stated earlier, it's very disappointing living in Burlington County because of the lack of decent courses.

I was curious about you top 20 in South Jersey Public and Private combined. 

Matt OBrien

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2009, 01:06:36 PM »
I dont know that there is 20 great golf courses in south jersey but i have a few

1) Pine Valley
2) Hidden Creek
3) Atlantic City
4) Galloway
5) Scotland Run
6) Metedaconk (may be central)
7) Twisted Dunes
8) Pine Barrens
9) Wildwood

I dont know how many courses are in SJ but the last ranked one is Links


Matt_Ward

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2009, 01:37:46 PM »
Rick:

Have a tougher hide my friend.

When people post it's fair game for people to lob a different opinion and hopefully learn from one another. I played The Links and thought it was simply awlful. Simple as that.

Rick, in my opnion, Jersey has some 250 golf courses and it's likely Links would be closer to the 200 number and many of those at the tail end are 9-hole courses.

In regards to a top 20 overall in South Jersey the dominant clubs would be almost all private.

For ID purposes I would list the following counties as South Jersey ...

Cape May
Atlantic
Cumberland
Salem
Gloucester
Camden
Burlington
Ocean

My list will shortly follow - both from an overall perspective and from a public only.

Matt_Ward

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2009, 01:38:46 PM »
One other point -- my list which will be posted shortly is not a statement of "great" courses but one listing the best for that area.

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2009, 05:33:20 PM »
Matt,

Have you played Tavistock CC since our restoration?

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2009, 07:03:11 PM »
Matt,
A tougher hide?  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Did I ever say the Links was great?  NO!  You seemed to be the one offended and continued throwing out bizzare terms like "White Castle"  "Dog Track" and "Shag Field"  Maybe you should lighten up a bit.  I have never seen anyone go after a person as much as you did because I said a place had a few neat holes.  Had I said it was a great course, you have every right to attack me.  Maybe your the one that needs to thicken your hide.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2009, 07:56:56 AM »
 ;D ;) 8)

Interesting though that short tight and quirky led to really high scores in the Mid Am Qualifier

Matt_Ward

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2009, 09:37:05 AM »
Rick:

If you see Links is a "nice surprise" and has some "neat holes" -- then knock yourself out and play there as much as you want. For some people the threshold of entertainment / architectural significance is clearly different.

Sure everyone is entitled to their opinon -- guess what -- so am I about your original premise. I think my understanding of Jersey Golf is quite good given the length of time I have been playing rhe game and the sheer diversity / times I have seen all the quality layouts that exist in the Garden State.

The terms I offered are clear and to the point -- the place is not worth the time and effort for a visit -- there are other alternatives in my opinion throughout South Jersey that have far more "nice surprise(s)" and offer a better array of "neat holes." Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

My listing of a top 20 for Jersey is below. Maybe you might find the info helpful.

JSLonis:

No, I have not played Tavistock since the restoration but I did walk the course prior to Labor Day as I was making my way to another layout just across the Delaware in the greater Phila area. Very nice job indeed -- I hope to have the opportunity to return for a round in 2010. Hats off to the membership for moving forward on that front.


Gents:

I've thrown together a quick listing of the top 20 for the area -- the counties I mentioned previously were the only ones I considered for inclusion. I broke down my listing in groupings of five in no particuar order ... By the way before people start tearing my line-up apart I'd appreciate seeing their listing as well. Once you post yours -- happy to have a good 19th hole discussion with people who have thick hides.

First Five
Pine Valley
Galloway National
ACCC
Hidden Creek
Medteconk National (1st & 3rd Nines)

Second Five
Medford Village
Woodcrest
Tavistock
Twisted Dune
Little Mill

Third Five
Laurel Creek
Pine Barrens
Scotland Run
Greate Bay
Sea Oaks

Fourth Five
Olde York
Rancocas
Pine Hill
Vineyard at Renault
Seaview / Bay


Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2009, 09:48:10 AM »
Matt,
I agree almost a hundred percent with your list.  The only one I wonder about is Rancocas.  When I was there about a year ago, they really let the conditions go.  It's a nice layout otherwise.  Have you played it recently? i would maybe toss Ballamor or Riverton in that spot. Good list

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2009, 09:49:39 AM »
You see Matt, my hide is pretty thick ;D

Bob Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2009, 11:49:36 AM »
Matt,

All in all, we're pretty much in agreement on your list.  I can't comment on Sea Oaks, as I haven't played it, but would have found a spot for Riverton, moved Laurel Creek up one and Little Mill down a group or two.

No surprise that Stone Harbor didn't make the list.

Matt_Ward

Re: The Links Golf Club
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2009, 02:00:58 PM »
Bob:

No doubt as one drops in the lower echelon in a top 20 you can have several different courses vying for the last few spot. Your point on Riverton is a good one -- fine Ross course and I've always liked a number of holes there -- most especially the 12th.

Keep in mind, when you say moving up or down courses I simply grouped courses in packs of five. So yes, it's possible that Laurel Creek could go one to join the rear end of the 2nd five and that Little Mill goes down one and is in the top portion of the 3rd five.

Candidly, I really liked Laurel Creek when it first opened -- one of the better AP designs -- but the proliferation of the housing has somewhat tempered my original enthusiam.

In regards to Stone Harbor -- I like a number of things there. The par-4 2nd is a superb hole with the H20 down the right. Clearly, much of the attention turned to what Muirhead did with a number of the other holes -- the renowned Jaws hole which since has been dramatically modified and the hole preceding it the 6th with its split fairway concept. I acually enjoy the closing hole there -- tough driving hole and demands a precise approach.

If you get up to the LBI area near the Jersey Shore try and play Sea Oaks. Quite good and also very reasonable on the $$ side of things.

Rick:

Glad to hear you've got thick leather interior ! ;D

Be curious to know how many of my listing you have played? I agree that a final couple of spots can easily include one or two others and have the same number be bumped from what I listed.

Your original point is a good one -- once you move away from the Jersey Shore the overall depth of quality "must play" layouts diminishes. South Central and South West Jersey are not great places to find many worthy layouts although there are a few exceptions as I noted.