[Tom_Doak]

Geoffrey:

Royal Dornoch is a BETTER course than Prestwick, but not as representative, in my opinion.

I do agree with Mark that driving up to Dornoch AND over to the west coast in a short trip is inadvisable.  So, based on your list, I'd either play Western Gailes and Prestwick, and skip Dornoch, or play Dornoch and Brora, and skip Western Gailes.

If anyone in the group cares about scenery and seeing the real Scotland, the latter would make a much better drive.

[Kyle Henderson]

Mine might be:

TOC
Elie
Carnoustie
Panmure
Cruden Bay

In Fife alone you could do:

TOC
New
Elie
Lundin Links
Kingsbarns

and have a real spectrum AND get to sleep in the same bed every night and enjoy being there, rather than driving all those miles.

In East Lothian a similar trip might look like:

Muirfield
North Berwick
Luffness New
Dunbar
Kilspindie

Around Inverness:

Royal Dornoch
Golspie
Brora
Nairn
Castle Stuart

Mark pretty much nails it, although Royal Aberdeen, Murcar and Cruden Bay could also be thrown in with some of the Inverness courses.

[Niall C]

Geoffrey

You probably don't need any more advice at this stage but your question intrigued me so I thought I would answer anyway. What intrigued me was the phrase "that best represent links golf in Scotland" so that got me thinking of the different types of links. For the purposes of this exercise I will ignore travel distances etc. Let me suggest these different types and what courses might be in there and then let you pick your 5 from there;

Old Standard Bearers - these are the obvious courses that everyone thinks of first when they think of Scottish golf. The courses with bags of history, loads of quirk and a certain aura. Courses that set hole templates for future course architects. The obvious examples are;

The Old Course
Prestwick
North Berwick
Royal Troon

Championship Courses - now obviously TOC, Royal Troon and Prestwick (once upon a time) come into this category but I'm reserving it for courses that might not look pretty, might not have memorable features or even look that hard at first glance but can't help providing a real test no matter the conditions;

Carnoustie (obvious really)
Southerness
Muirfield
The New
The Jubilee
Nairn
Gullane No. 1


"Typical" links courses - this category is reserved for what (I expect) the first time visitor might be expecting from a links course, lots of big sand dunes, rumpled fairways, gorse/heather etc.

Turnberry
Machrihanish
Cruden Bay
Royal Dornoch
Prestwick St Nicholas
Western Gailes
Royal Aberdeen
Murcar

"Small is Beautiful" - courses that defy you to over power them just because they are 5000 plus yards. Courses where you can hit the ball too far and find yourself with an awkard chip because you got on the wrong side of a small pot bunker with the smallest hardest green you've ever seen on the other side. Usually ancient and usually over shadowed by a bigger neighbour but also where you'll find the locals playing.

Gullane No. 3
Kilspindie
Kilmarnock Barassie
Irvine Bogside
Elie
Balcomie (Crail)
Brora

This is where I'm going to cheat. In the old days, some of the earliest inland courses were referred to as links so I'm going to call this section the "Non-links Links" category ie. inland courses. I suspect that only a small minority of visitors to Scotland experience any thing other than links but let me suggest the following courses which might be as far apart to each other as the types above but all offer good golf;

Gleneagles
Boat of Garten
Duff House Royal
Elgin
Cawdor
Blairgowrie

There you go, hopefully that will be of some help but I suspect not. Ask me again tomorrow and I'll probably have a completely different set of answers. Anyway, have a great trip.

Niall

[Bryan Izatt]

Geoffrey,

What are the parameters of your trip? Is it a golf trip?  Where are you flying in to?  Do you only have 5 days on the ground?  When will you be going?  Are you sure you'll never go back?

I've done the great circle driving tour 5 times now, and you can certainly hit all the far flung places if you put your mind to it and don't mind the (LH) driving.  But if you have the option for a few more days or you will go back some day, it just makes so much more sense to limit the driving and focus on a smaller geographic area.

Machrihanish is worth a visit, but if you only have 5 days, it is really out of the way, although I once left Dornoch in late afternoon and got to Machrihanish at midnight, played the next day, and then drove to Glasgow, again arriving near midnight to catch the plane home the next morning.

I wouldn't bother with Kingsbarns unless you're interested in a course that's representative of modern manufactured links.  With so many old, natural links courses and limited time, why bother.

If you fly into Glasgow, it's easy to get to Prestwick for a game the day you arrive,  and then drive to the next destination.

If you are going in June or July there is a lot of day time hours.  It's easy to get in two rounds even at different courses.  For instance North Berwick and Gullane or St Andrews Old and New or Crail or even Carnoustie.  Around Aberdeen you could go to Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen or Murcar in one day.  Around Inverness you could do Dornoch and Brora or Nairn. 

If it is your only trip to Scotland, then definitely go to Dornoch.  It's worth the drive, and as Tom says, it's a beautiful drive.  And, you can certainly play there and drive back to Glasgow to overnight before your flight home.

If you can, try to be on the ground for 7 or 8 days, it makes the touring a little more doable. 

Once you've been once, it'll be hard to resist the siren call to return again, and again ......... 

[Bryan Izatt]

Nice breakdown, Niall, but you didn't include your home course, Glasgow Gailes.  One that could easily be combined with Western Gailes or Prestwick in one day.  And, it's convenient if you're just off a plane at Glasgow or are leaving late in the day from Glasgow.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Geoffrey,

What are the parameters of your trip? Is it a golf trip?  Where are you flying in to?  Do you only have 5 days on the ground?  When will you be going?  Are you sure you'll never go back?

I've done the great circle driving tour 5 times now, and you can certainly hit all the far flung places if you put your mind to it and don't mind the (LH) driving.  But if you have the option for a few more days or you will go back some day, it just makes so much more sense to limit the driving and focus on a smaller geographic area.

Machrihanish is worth a visit, but if you only have 5 days, it is really out of the way, although I once left Dornoch in late afternoon and got to Machrihanish at midnight, played the next day, and then drove to Glasgow, again arriving near midnight to catch the plane home the next morning.

I wouldn't bother with Kingsbarns unless you're interested in a course that's representative of modern manufactured links.  With so many old, natural links courses and limited time, why bother.

If you fly into Glasgow, it's easy to get to Prestwick for a game the day you arrive,  and then drive to the next destination.

If you are going in June or July there is a lot of day time hours.  It's easy to get in two rounds even at different courses.  For instance North Berwick and Gullane or St Andrews Old and New or Crail or even Carnoustie.  Around Aberdeen you could go to Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen or Murcar in one day.  Around Inverness you could do Dornoch and Brora or Nairn. 

If it is your only trip to Scotland, then definitely go to Dornoch.  It's worth the drive, and as Tom says, it's a beautiful drive.  And, you can certainly play there and drive back to Glasgow to overnight before your flight home.

If you can, try to be on the ground for 7 or 8 days, it makes the touring a little more doable. 

Once you've been once, it'll be hard to resist the siren call to return again, and again ......... 

I see the logic in not trying to hit three regions in one short trip.  How about this schedule:

Day 1 - Fly to Edinburgh, drive to Dornoch
Day 2 - Play Royal Dornoch, Play Brora
Day 3 - Play Royal Dornoch, drive to St. Andrews
Day 4 - Play TOC, Play Elie, drive to North Berwick
Day 5 - Play North Berwick, Gullane, drive to Prestwick
Day 6 - Play Prestwick, fly home from Glasgow

Seems like a reasonable combination based upon the responses to this thread.  We were thinking about a 5 day trip, but I want to make sure we see NB which may require another day.

Thoughts?

[Anthony Gray]

  I would drop Brora and pick up Cruden Bay. It is top 100 and you will  see things that are not found elsewhere. One of the best routings ever. Some of Old Tom also.

  Anthony

[Bryan Izatt]

Geoffrey,

Are you flying in from the US?  Driving from Edinburgh to Dornoch on the day of arrival might be a little tough if you're tired.  It also wastes the day with driving.  It'd make more sense to play North Berwick or St Andrews the day you arrive and do Dornoch on Day 5 and then drive to Glasgow that evening and play Prestwick the day you leave.  Six days, with four full days on the ground is not much time to see a representative sampe.

[Mark Pearce]

Geoffrey,

You want to get a real feel for Scottish golf?  Don't run around from course to course.  Play one course, 36 holes a day (except TOC, where you won't get 36), have lunch and a drink, talk to the members.  Don't just disappear in a puff of smoke and move on to another course where you won't get to know the club.

[Bill_McBride]

Geoffrey,

Are you flying in from the US?  Driving from Edinburgh to Dornoch on the day of arrival might be a little tough if you're tired.  It also wastes the day with driving.  It'd make more sense to play North Berwick or St Andrews the day you arrive and do Dornoch on Day 5 and then drive to Glasgow that evening and play Prestwick the day you leave.  Six days, with four full days on the ground is not much time to see a representative sampe.

Bryan, four of our guys did that day of arrival when we saw you in Dornoch.  I found it a lot easier to fly into Gatwick and transfer to an Easy Jet flight to Inverness, not much of a drive left on to Dornoch, and right there at Nairn and Castle Stuart.  I think you could play one of those on arrival day in the summer.

[Bryan Izatt]

Bill,

I don't remember the boys looking that sleepy at Dornoch.  Must have been the fresh Highlands air.  Flying to Inverness would be a much more sensible way to do it than trying to drive from Edinburgh.  And, I'm sure that stepping out onto Dornoch would help keep Geoffrey's eyes open to complete a round before the sun sets in the summer. 

But, I suspect Mark is right - it's silly to try to do the great circle driving tour in the short time Geoffrey has.  Better to set up camp in Dornoch for 5 days or near St Andrews for 5 days.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

I don't remember the boys looking that sleepy at Dornoch.  Must have been the fresh Highlands air.  Flying to Inverness would be a much more sensible way to do it than trying to drive from Edinburgh.  And, I'm sure that stepping out onto Dornoch would help keep Geoffrey's eyes open to complete a round before the sun sets in the summer. 

But, I suspect Mark is right - it's silly to try to do the great circle driving tour in the short time Geoffrey has.  Better to set up camp in Dornoch for 5 days or near St Andrews for 5 days.

The best was our five nights in Dornoch followed by five more in St Andrews!

[john_stiles]

GW,

Based on my trips, I would go with one area and minimize rushing about.

You can maximize your play, and maybe play multiple times, or easily play twice in one day.

I don't think you could go wrong with either east or west, or the northerly suggestions.

Also, based on mine and friends' experiences,   you will not stop with the one visit.

John


ps  for the best links in England,  I was very happy in staying in Southport area, and easily playing Wallasey, Birkdale, Lytham, Southport & Ainsdale,  Hillside, Formby, etc.  staying on one B&B.   But that is  OT, but maybe not for your next trip

[Bill_McBride]

GW,

Based on my trips, I would go with one area and minimize rushing about.

You can maximize your play, and maybe play multiple times, or easily play twice in one day.

I don't think you could go wrong with either east or west, or the northerly suggestions.

Also, based on mine and friends' experiences,   you will not stop with the one visit.

John


ps  for the best links in England,  I was very happy in staying in Southport area, and easily playing Wallasey, Birkdale, Lytham, Southport & Ainsdale,  Hillside, Formby, etc.  staying on one B&B.   But that is  OT, but maybe not for your next trip

John, please tell me you didn't miss Hoylake!

[Stan Dodd]

Anthony,
I think you have an infatuation with Cruden Bay and tend to promote it with over courses without real thought.
I have played Cruden Bay many times and my wife enjoy a stay in the St. Olaf combined with golf, bird watching (puffins just up the coast), and walking (Slains Castle).  I still  believe Cruden Bay has serious flaws.  I have never walked off without feeling somewaht let down.  The last four are the weakest of the course and maybe the last six.  The new clubhouse is a pox and though iIenjoy going there and will play again, it is not near the best of Scottish golf. IMHO
Respectfully
Stan

[john_stiles]

John, please tell me you didn't miss Hoylake!

Bill,

Oh my.  Of course we played  Hoylake.  Also played Hesketh and West Lancs, and St Annes Old Links.

John

[Bill_McBride]

John, please tell me you didn't miss Hoylake!

Bill,

Oh my.  Of course we played  Hoylake.  Also played Hesketh and West Lancs, and St Annes Old Links.

John

Great trip, Hoylake is such a great links, and Wallasey is a first rate sleeper.  That was Buda Cup 2006.

[RSLivingston_III]

Who wants to fill him in on the logistics of getting food? especially if not in a large town. Probably the same thing with accomodations. That much moving around has problems in that country with a four ball tourist group in tow.
Need to plan more fudge time.. Got to eat well if playing 36 a day. Better be a fan of Indian...


Stan,
I am in the pro Cruden Bay camp and think you tend to slam it too much. We get it, you don't like it.

[Bob_Huntley]

Bryan,

Your question is unanswerable. I am reminded of the question asked of the late Errol Flynn. "Errol, what was the absolute worst piece of ass that you have ever experienced." There was a long pause, a drag on the cigarette and the answer, 'Fantastic.,"

This can be said of a couple of dozen courses in Sotland. From the high and mighty to the lowly, each has a character that make the pulse beat and leaves an indelible impression that you are experiencing nirvana.

Bob

[Kevin Pallier]

Geoffrey

You could choose any combination of 5 or more courses and still have "fun"....which for me is the very essance of Links golf in Scotland

Pushed to name but 5 I'd recommend

Starting at TOC and the driving to North Berwick and taking in Muirfield

Then head north to Royal Dornoch taking in Cruden Bay along the way

[Leo Barber]

[/quote]

I see the logic in not trying to hit three regions in one short trip.  How about this schedule:

Day 1 - Fly to Edinburgh, drive to Dornoch
Day 2 - Play Royal Dornoch, Play Brora
Day 3 - Play Royal Dornoch, drive to St. Andrews
Day 4 - Play TOC, Play Elie, drive to North Berwick
Day 5 - Play North Berwick, Gullane, drive to Prestwick
Day 6 - Play Prestwick, fly home from Glasgow

Seems like a reasonable combination based upon the responses to this thread.  We were thinking about a 5 day trip, but I want to make sure we see NB which may require another day.

Thoughts?
[/quote]

There has been some great advice on here.  I would second highlighting the amount of daylight - it makes 36 hole days really doable without the need to cram them in (I regularly teed off at 5pm during my trip which allowed for some good downtime midday or driving to a destination and still being able to have a game on the same day).  One of the main thoughts I would have on your itinerary is that it really gives you limited time in St Andrews outside of the golf.  The town really embraces all those things you are seeking with your trip and it would be a tragedy to breeze through it.  Particularly with a group of four I would position myself at St Andrews, do a couple of three 36 hole days (including a repeat of the Old) and maybe a flier upto Dornoch returning to Ayreshire for a round at one of Troon/Prestwick/Western Gailes before flying out. 

[Richard Muldoon]

Leo,
I'm sure you'll end up playing predominately the 'name' courses but here are some suggestions for what their worth
Royal Aberdeen - Championship course and a good one at that, especially the front 9
Cruden Bay - IMHO everyone should play this at least once
Cullen - something completely different
Boat of Garten - I know you said links courses but Scotland is more than just links and this is a delightful course. Substitute Brora if it must be links
Royal Dornoch - Another must play and one of my favourites

With this itinery you could fly into Aberdeen and out of Inverness and there are plenty of options along the way

Richard

[Chris DeNigris]

As expected everyone has their own strategic preferences for golf trips. I subscribe more to the Kyle Henderson school of golf gluttony...the more the better. I'm not adverse to driving, especially in such a wonderfully scenic place. You'd have to stretch the trip to 7 or 8 days but my ideal itinerary would go something like this:

Day 1- Arrive Glasgow- Play Prestwick. Drive to Campbeltown, stopping at Loch Fyne OB for dinner.

Day 2- Play Machrihanish and Mach Dunes. Spend a relaxing night in one of the new lodges.

Day 3- Play each again. Then drive to Inverness.

Day 4- Play Brora and Dornoch, spend the night in Dornoch.

Day 5- Play Dornoch again, then Castle Stuart, then drive towards Cruden Bay.

Day 6- Play Cruden Bay and Aberdeen. Drive to Fife.

Day 7- Play the Old course twice.

Day 8- Play Muirfield (if possible) and NBerwick.

Day 9- Fly home...sleep for 2 days.

The driving isn't as bad as it seems, especially if you're somewhat used to 4 or 5 hour drives at home.

The longest stretch is Campbeltown to Inverness...5 hrs on a good day but a really great drive. Almost as much fun as the long and winding road from Glasgow to the Mull of Kintyre. Nairn to Cruden Bay is an easy 2-3 hours, Aberdeen to Fife only a couple of hours.

In a perfect world you could plan on many return trips and budget plenty of time to stop and smell the roses. But you just never know.

[Gary Slatter]

Getting a foursome together for my first trip to Scotland.  If you could play any five courses (which allow public access) in Scotland to experience links golf, where would you play?  Assume TOC must be included.  I am fairly open on price and travel distance - I just want to get the right combination.

My initial group:

TOC
Muirfield
Dornoch
Machrainish
Kingsbarns

I would welcome any suggestions.  Thanks in advance.

What month are you thinking of making the trip?  Daylight is important.

[Mark Chaplin]

Chris nice trip but day one gives a 162 mile drive to Machrihanish timed at 3hrs 37mins. Day 3 nice to replay both courses before a 259 mile 6hrs 13min drive after 72 holes in 2 days and a red eye before 18 on day one, this could result in car v ditch or worse.

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