[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Getting a foursome together for my first trip to Scotland.  If you could play any five courses (which allow public access) in Scotland to experience links golf, where would you play?  Assume TOC must be included.  I am fairly open on price and travel distance - I just want to get the right combination.

My initial group:

TOC
Muirfield
Dornoch
Machrainish
Kingsbarns

I would welcome any suggestions.  Thanks in advance.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Thats a solid list. Perhaps North Berwick swapped for either Machrainish or Kingsbarns, but you cant go wrong with either of those as well. Kingsbarns isn't exactly a "true links", but it is still awesome.

[David_Tepper]

Prestwick? Cruden Bay?

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

David,

I thought of Cruden Bay and Prestwick but would you swap either Kingsbarns or Machrainish for them?  I know very little about CB in particular.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Here are the six you should really play:

TOC
Dornoch
Muirfield
Turnberry
Prestwick
North Berwick

But there are some beauties like Machrihanish or Brora or even Askernish that might give you the essence of what it's all about...

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Jaeger,

What makes NB stand out in your mind?  I hadn't initially focused on that course but I would welcome your thougts.

[Jud_T]

dump Kingsbarns and add Prestwick...Kingsbarns is great, but outside of TOC nothing beats Prestwick for links history....but why only 5 rounds? hell, play Kingsbarns, and throw in Carnoustie and Western Gailes as well!!  

p.s. you could wait for "The greatest links course on earth" to be built by the Donald 

[Jason Topp]

My advice is to not try and hit the full spectrum because you cannot do it in one week.  For a first time one week trip, I would spend the entire week in St. Andrews and get to know the town.  From there you can get to Murfield, North Berwick, Kingsbarns and Carnoustie easily.  Be sure and play some of the lesser lights as well such as Elie, Lundin Links, Crail, and the New Course.  My father and I even played 36 at Turnberry - driving there and back from St. Andrews the same day.

Moving from Hotel to Hotel feels like you a part of a herd of American Cattle rushing to see everything in a short period of time.

[Bill_McBride]

I haven't played either but don't believe Kingsbarns or Turnberry are on linksland.

North Berwick is a must just for its links turf and history, plus a beautiful lesson in how much fun it can be to play a links course.

[Anthony Gray]

  Cruden Bay
  The Old Course
  Prestwick
  North Berwick
  Cruden Bay

[Philippe Binette]

North Berwick: fun
Royal Dornoch: challenging
Elie: out of standards
Western Gailes: pure links site
Panmure: in and out of the links

[Stan Dodd]

Play Cruden Bay and walk in after the 8th and then go to Fraserburgh and play good links golf for a fraction of the cost.
the best part of Cruden Bay is the view from the new McClub House.

[Sean_A]

I don't know if you can get the full picture with only five links.  That said here are the five I would recommend.

North Berwick
TOC
Dornoch
Brora
Muirfield

If you are willing to stretch it out add

Prestwick
Machrie

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

The only list that comes close to achieving what the title of this thread seeks is Phillippe's.  If you want to identify the best 5 links courses in Scotland then maybe the other lists have some significance, though I wouldn't agree with all of any of them.  Representing Scottish links golf, though?  How can picking any 5 of the very best, mostly Championship courses do that?  What do you want Geoffrey?  A representative view of Scottish links golf or to play the very best courses but not get to see those second tier courses that Scotland has so many great examples of.  Your initial suggestion, by the way, involves about as much driving as it's possible to do in Scotland and on some pretty slow roads.

[Ron Csigo]

Geoffrey,

You should try concentrating on one coast, east or west.  I'm not sure how many days you'll be in Scotland but it might be a waste of time to drive from coast to coast playing St. Andrews one day and then playing Prestwick the next.  If there is a must play course on your original list ie TOC, then I would recommend staying in St. Andrews and focusing on the courses in that region.  Also, if you're flying into Edinburgh, North Berwick, Muirfield and Gullane are in close proximity.  From there you can head to St. Andrews where you have TOC, New, Jubilee, Castle, Kingbarns, Crail and Carnoustie and a host of others close by.

[Mark Chaplin]

I agree with Mr Pearce going on the title I'd play;

TOC - the ultimate links experience
The New Course - continue the St.A experience
North Berwick - fun to play
Gullane 2 or 3 - good honest Scottish links courses, example of what the "average" member plays
Prestwick - history by the bucket load

Sensible trip without hours behind the wheel.

[Mark Pearce]

I agree with Mr Pearce going on the title I'd play;

TOC - the ultimate links experience
The New Course - continue the St.A experience
North Berwick - fun to play
Gullane 2 or 3 - good honest Scottish links courses, example of what the "average" member plays
Prestwick - history by the bucket load

Sensible trip without hours behind the wheel.

Not bad, though I might substitute Elie for one of the New, North Berwick or Gullane 2/3.

Mine might be:

TOC
Elie
Carnoustie
Panmure
Cruden Bay

In Fife alone you could do:

TOC
New
Elie
Lundin Links
Kingsbarns

and have a real spectrum AND get to sleep in the same bed every night and enjoy being there, rather than driving all those miles.

In East Lothian a similar trip might look like:

Muirfield
North Berwick
Luffness New
Dunbar
Kilspindie

Around Inverness:

Royal Dornoch
Golspie
Brora
Nairn
Castle Stuart

[David Kelly]

Play Cruden Bay and walk in after the 8th and then go to Fraserburgh and play good links golf for a fraction of the cost.
the best part of Cruden Bay is the view from the new McClub House.

Good call.

[Sean_A]

I agree with Mr Pearce going on the title I'd play;

TOC - the ultimate links experience
The New Course - continue the St.A experience
North Berwick - fun to play
Gullane 2 or 3 - good honest Scottish links courses, example of what the "average" member plays
Prestwick - history by the bucket load

Sensible trip without hours behind the wheel.

Not bad, though I might substitute Elie for one of the New, North Berwick or Gullane 2/3.

Mine might be:

TOC
Elie
Carnoustie
Panmure
Cruden Bay

Mark

Our lists aren't so different.  You have two current Open rota courses - so do I.  I chose Muirfield because its a unique day out and a championship course.  You have a quirky course in Cruden Bay.  My choice for this is North Berwick.  I wonder if there is a divide between those who favour one or the other?  You have a few lesser known courses, I have one in Brora.  That is the only real difference and for that Dornoch gets chucked in.  Not a bad trade off for a Panmure or Elie, plus its close to Brora -  which is a long way to from St Andrews for just one course.  In any case, my choices aren't a trip I would do, but I think its a fair representation of what is on offer in Scotland.  The one area lacking is a true back water course such as Reay, but I don't know if its worth the journey.  I haven't seen any true backwaters in Scotland which impressed me greatly.   I suspect it would involve some island hopping - The Isle of Harris GC always intrigued me.  Of course, now we have Askernish.  I don't know, maybe Reay or Durness are worth the extra effort from Dornoch. 

Ciao   

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

Geoffrey:

You've probably already got more advice than you want.

For me the 5 "most representative" would have to include:

The Old Course at St. Andrews, which is still the foundation, and
Prestwick, another take on the foundation, in bigger dunes, and
Machrihanish, whose remoteness and lack of change makes it most representative of Scottish courses 50 or 100 years ago

After that, it depends on how much you want to drive and what you mean by "representative".  Personally I think the latter word means you should include something very short and quirky, just because the Scots more than anyone else understand that size is not the most important measure of fun.  This could be anyplace from Cullen in the north, to North Berwick, to Gullane #3 or Kilspindie or Musselburgh.  If you think Open championships are important, then Muirfield or Turnberry or even Royal Troon might make your list.  Troon is not my favorite but it is VERY representative.

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

Fair points.  It's a while since I played there but Reay would get on my list and it is a long way, even from Dornoch.  I don't know where else counts as a backwater.  Geographically, Cambletown must be a backwater but Machrihanish is no backwater course.  Similarly, Southerness.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Geoffrey

You've got far too much drive time in your original itinerary.  A more manageable schedule, particularly if you fly into Edinburgh would be:

TOC (where it all began)
Kingsbarns (the first "modern" links course)
Elie (a traditional town course)
Muirfield (36 holes plus lunch - an experience of the elite at play)
North Berwick (possibly the most fun course in Scotland)

Each of these courses is very different, but each will give you an experience of links golf in Scotland.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

What do you want Geoffrey?  A representative view of Scottish links golf or to play the very best courses but not get to see those second tier courses that Scotland has so many great examples of.  Your initial suggestion, by the way, involves about as much driving as it's possible to do in Scotland and on some pretty slow roads.

I would love to have a combination of championship courses and some outside that rota.  I would love to play a grouping which maintains a high level of quality but represents the best of the various experiences you could have playing links golf in Scotland.  I would assume this could include different locations/topography, routing/designs, traditions, etc.

I am not opposed to including out of the way courses, assuming they can fit in logistically (I would prefer just to drive/train once I land in Scotland) and are worth the effort.  I'm not sure I will ever make it back.  Askernish strikes me as too far, but the Brora/Dornoch area seems well worth the trip.  I would love to find a remote course where we could play basically by ourselves for a reasonable cost, but I'm not sure I would knock out one of the others to do that given my limited time.  I'd welcome suggestions for that as well, and I'll try keep it in mind if we have extra time.

It seems like my five would come from the following group of 12:

TOC*
North Berwick*
Prestwick
Cruden Bay
Muirfield*
Royal Dornoch*
Brora (1st alternate, extra course)
Machrainish
Western Gailes*
Carnoustie
Elie
Panmure

* = Five that might make sense based upon the comments so far.

It sounds like Kingsbarns is out because it may not represent a true links even though it looks like a superb course.

Thanks for the help!  Keep the suggestions/thoughts coming.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

After that, it depends on how much you want to drive and what you mean by "representative".  Personally I think the latter word means you should include something very short and quirky, just because the Scots more than anyone else understand that size is not the most important measure of fun.  This could be anyplace from Cullen in the north, to North Berwick, to Gullane #3 or Kilspindie or Musselburgh.  If you think Open championships are important, then Muirfield or Turnberry or even Royal Troon might make your list.  Troon is not my favorite but it is VERY representative.

Tom,

As I think about it, I actually think I would rather have a little more variety/quirkyness in the group.  I might take out a Muirfield to add Prestwick which certainly has a wonderful championship tradition of its own.

Machrainish was on my original list (for the same reason you mention) but it seemed as if others thought it shouldn't make the cut.  Would you include it over Dornoch?

[Mark Pearce]

Geoffrey,

Of the 5 you have asterisked, 3 (TOC, North Berwick and Muirfield) are near Edinburgh, one is in the far North of Scotland (Dornoch) and one on the West coast.  I can't see Western Gailes being worth the drive if it's the only course in the west you're going to play.  I'd replace it with a second course in Fife (Elie, Lundin Links, The New Course) or one nerer Dornoch (Brora, possibly Nairn).  Be aware that North Berwick/Muirfield to St Andrews is a 90 minute drive, St Andrews to Dornoch is a far longer drive, I'd guess 5 hours but I'm sure someone will have a more exact idea.

If you just want one big drive, I'd go for a Fife and/or East Lothian based visit.

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