Philly CC Forsed!

[Rob_Waldron]

I played Philly CC in the team matches yesterday. This classic William Flynn design  reopened earlier this month after a renovation by Ron Forse.  The renovation included about 250-300 additional yards and the elimination of approximately 600 trees. Tees, fairways and greens were regrassed with bent.

I have mixed emotions. :-/  I miss the solitude provided by the trees on several holes, yet appreciate the new views provided by their absence.  The result is a solid course that does not use unnecessary trees to trick it up. The corridors are much more generous and the added length stiffens the challenge.  The greens are simply outstanding! They are generous in size, feature numerous slopes and they putt true. (yes I made my fair share of putts) Much of the integrity of the original greens was maintained. The roughs have also been permitted to grow rather long. It remains to be seen whether the members allow this to continue. I am interested in the opinions of others of you who have had the opportunity to play the course.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Rob,

I also heard that the bunkers were renovated (restored?); not sure if Forse was involved with that aspect, or it was simply the inhouse staff.  

The friend who told me that was very impressed with their look and playability.  Any impressions?

[Rob_Waldron]

My understanding is that Forse consulted on the renovations with a committee of members and the super. The bunkers were rebuilt as part of the complete renovation of all green complexes. The bunkers and I became intimate during yesterday's round. This was good and bad. On #3 I drove it into the fairway cross bunkers then advanced it to the greenside bunker.......Made Birdie, won the hole!

[TEPaul]

Let me see if I can interest the green or golf chairman, or at least one of those who had a good deal to do with the project in responding to this topic.

[Patrick Hitt]

Rob,
What holes did you think the trees were cut back too much on ?
Does anyone know if green was "reclaimed" or what type of bent was used on the greens ?

[Mike_Cirba]

Rob,

It's great to hear that such a restoration has taken place at another local course with such historic lineage.  I was particularly pleased to hear that significant tree clearing has taken place.

I'm most gratified to hear that good news after playing an old Tillinghast course this past weekend in NJ.  Aerial photos from the 50s show a very open design, yet in the past half-century, the club has done so much planting that many of the holes are near-claustrophic in look and playability.  Worse yet, they are currently planting many more.  

It's nice to see a wonderful classic course returning to its "roots", especially when one shakes their head in bewilderment to see others doing the exact opposite.

[wsmorrison]

I too, have played Philly CC since Forse's group did the work and many times previously as my wife and in-laws are members there.  The job was well done yet takes a bit of getting used to (as stated the views are different and perspectives altered) but everything works and looks great. I believe for every tree they took out, they planted another; mostly flowering trees that won't grow to such heights so as to prevent morning sun from drying out the dew and allows for proper air circulation.  Many courses in our area (Merion, Aronimink, Rolling Green) started having problems with fungus and bacterial wilt on the greens and chose to remove the poa and return to all bent.

Tom, I think Mike McNulty could explain the innovative methods he used to clear the existing grass and discuss the strain of bent he used (Penn, not sure what variety).  I know that he tried several options on the practice green next to 14 and chose the one that worked best.  He consulted with Richie Valentine and the course came out very well.  I could ask Mike to explain the work as well as Ron Forse.

The short second shot into 2 green is much changed, the trees surrounding the back of the green no longer add depth perception and block the wind.  Rob, you did far better than Snead in '39 from the fairway bunker on 3, he took an 8 to drop out of the lead and you made 4.  The tees are all the way back to the fence and really make the initial fairway bunkers on the right come into play.  Six has a new back tee and the fairway is moved to the right by the pond.  Eleven looks much different without the trees and the front drop-off.  Some of the tees are a bit long (13) but overall it makes the course a better test while retaining its design roots.  US Women's amateur in 2003 and perhaps a Sr. event down the road?  It should make for a fine test.

Ron Forse is meeting me next week at Rolling Green, a course he has never seen.  I look forward to his examination of another outstanding Flynn gem.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I am very interested in how Ron mixed the resoration with current playing equipment for he is doing a course down here now. Metairie CC in New Orleans back to its Raynor roots.

[TEPaul]

Apparently quite a lot of trees came out at Philly C.C. but it really isn't all that dramatic a change in "feel", except certain areas. Behind #2 as Wayne mentioned--that's a great example of a real positive change and is instantly apparent.

But the real change in look and feel is the #11-#12 and #16 corridor--that's a change in look and feel even a blind man would notice. Coming down #16 is the most dramatic of all since #11 green appears to be almost "stepped" or "stacked" just behind and slightly to the left of #16 green!

This is a highly unusual look in golf (to have one hole so visible directly behind another), at least for me, and one which must even be fairly rare in a routing sense. It doesn't look the same but the "effect" reminds me a little of #13 & #15 at Garden City which is one of the oddest and most interesting looks I've ever seen in golf. If you're in the right part of the fairway on #13, #15 flag can actually line right up with the flag on #13 giving the golfer one of the oddest and most visually deceptive looks I've ever seen.

But I understand that the primary determinant for tree removal or tree removal in selected places at Philly C.C. was a very detailed and sophisticated light and shade analysis. Of course the reason for it is to help the agronomy with sunlight.

[Jim Nagle (Forse Design)]

Philly C.C. was a true team effort.  The Club obviously deserves much of the credit for the
undertaking and initiative to restore the course.  Mike McNulty, CGCS may have had the biggest impact in the majority of the work.  It was and always will be a joy to consult and talk with Mike.  His  on-course
knowledge and his passion for the golf course made for a great project and learning experience for a
young guy like myself.  His preparations for the project and gassing/regrassing began nearly a year before we were even contacted.  As for our involvement, we worked with the club interpreting photos (late 20's and 30's) the ground and a Flynn plan to determine the best possible solutions.  Bunker shapes, new tees, expanded greensites/fairways and tree removal were the essence of the plan.  Mike did much of the bunker work in-house with the help of a local contractor for excavation and some shaping.  He mentioned that what was shown on the plans and what was excavated in the field were in most cases the one in the same.  This in turn helped him in getting the buker shapes and sizes.  Ron was involved periodically during construction to verify and layout features.

As for the trees.  Forse Design made recommendations regarding strategy and playability.  Mike McNulty and the Club worked directly with AbrorCom in determining which trees were to be removed for agronomic reasons.  The greens were gassed then regrassed with A-1.  This form of bent does not tolerate the shade, hence the removal of numerous trees.  The greatest amount of removal came in the area of 5, 11 & 16 greensites.  Interestingly  the 5th green was notoriously the worst green, after the tree removal and subsequent regrassing it is Mike's best in terms of maintenance.  The Club has extensive Green Committee meeting minutes from the 30's, 40's and 50's.  Amongst the letters is one indicating the aquiring of 5,000 evergreen trees to be planted on the course.  Ouch!!!!

The front nine green expansions completed in the 1st year were done by looking at the green surrounds, photos and then Mike and I worked in the field probing soil to determine the true extents. The current greens were rebuilt in the 30's with a very gravelly soil, making it easy to find the extents of the original greens. Mr. Joe Duich (also consulting with the Club) then came in and verified or modified the proposed expansion based on overall soil conditions.  After review by Forse and Duich, Mike and his crew conditioned the soil and seeded the greens.

Overall the project has been a highlight for Forse Design.  We feel that Philly C.C. is somewhat forgotten in the ranks of Merion, Aronomink, Lancaster, Rolling Green and Mannies.  This course is truly better than its current rankings.  We believe the hard work of Mike McNulty, his crew and all of those at Philly will pay-off in years to come.

[TEPaul]

I'd also love to know in detail which of Philly's greens (maybe all) were redone by Maxwell, what, how and how much he did, if he worked with Flynn on the redesign of them and if there're any photos before Maxwell and after and what differences are observable. Also if the club has all those minutes going back to the 1920s and 1930s why the greens were redone. I think Mike McNulty told me they didn't drain very well but I can't remember if that was Flynn's original greens or Maxwel's redesignsl

[Ed_Baker]

I'm stating the obvious here, but with all of the outstanding restorations that we hear about, there seems to be a highly motivated Superintendent at the heart of the project. Not just a technically proficient professional, but an individual with a real passion and knowledge of the history of his course and its place in the game.

Once again I must take my hat off and offer thanks and respect to the "keepers of the green".