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Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2009, 02:43:30 PM »
I like an inviting tee shot on the first tee... a wide fairway where you know you'll have a full swing on your next shot, it could have a strategic interest but not a do or die one

Then an approach that requires accuracy. Basically a good 380 - 400 yard par 4 fits well (pinehurst no 2) fit this description.

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2009, 02:48:41 PM »
BIRDIE!!

Lester

Jason Tetterton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2009, 03:04:08 PM »
Palmetto's #1 is a good start.

Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2009, 03:26:02 PM »
Tim - A "firm handshake" ... and introduce a player of what's to come?  You've just described the first at Aronimink perfectly.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2009, 04:18:03 PM »
Ultimate first hole...

Merion. 

Everything else is a distant second.

Damn - you beat me.

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2009, 04:26:03 PM »
 I want a taste of the challenges to come. For instance, #1 at Torresdale Frankford tells you to keep it in play off the tee and try to put your approach in the best place on the green because all day you will be tested by the greens. NGLA suggests quirk from the getgo and it delivers that for the next 17 holes.

   I'm interested in the "esteemed" Mr. Thornton's take on what makes #1 at Merion the "ultimate".


   Dan,

   I think #1 at French Creek fits the bill. It is an unusual uphill start that tells me to expect the unexpected, something Hanse always delivers.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 04:32:06 PM by mike_malone »
AKA Mayday

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2009, 04:47:53 PM »
Tim, a lot of Golden Age courses didn't have driving ranges -- this may derive from the general lack of these  in the UK! -- and the first was a relatively easy par 5.   Mackenzie in particular did this at some of his courses (Crystal Downs and Cypress Point being two definite exceptions!).  Valley Club, Pasatiempo, the Meadow Club all start with shortish par 5s.  George Thomas' Riviera does as well.

Lake Course, SFGC, and Stanfurd GC are three others that come to mind.

Love the "Stanfurd" reference, some may think that's merely a tyop!  ;D

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2009, 04:48:50 PM »
I want a taste of the challenges to come. For instance, #1 at Torresdale Frankford tells you to keep it in play off the tee and try to put your approach in the best place on the green because all day you will be tested by the greens. NGLA suggests quirk from the getgo and it delivers that for the next 17 holes.

   I'm interested in the "esteemed" Mr. Thornton's take on what makes #1 at Merion the "ultimate".


   Dan,

   I think #1 at French Creek fits the bill. It is an unusual uphill start that tells me to expect the unexpected, something Hanse always delivers.



What did you think of the first at Friars Head?  Did it set the tone?   ??? ;D

Patrick_Mucci

Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2009, 04:54:20 PM »
Anthony,

Margins of error, an element of forgiveness.

Jim Thornton

Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2009, 05:04:28 PM »
Mike Malone-

My love affair with Merion is no secret to you.  I'm on record as saying Merion is my favorite golf course on the planet, so much so that in my personal rankings I have it in a class by itself before dropping down to the next group of Shinnecock, PV, Sand Hills, Cypress, and Oakmont.  With that disclaimer out of the way, here's why I think Merion's 1st hole is in a class by itself:

First, it may be the most unique setting for a first hole in all of golf.  You're literally teeing off 5-10 feet from the club's patio, where members can often be found having breakfast or lunch as you're teeing off.  There is a tradition of no mulligans at Merion, and it's one of the most intimidating tee shots you could ever face given that the buzz from the patio and the clinging of glassware and silverware come to a dead quiet as you address the ball.  You can just feel everybody staring at you and it's probably as close to what it feels like playing in front of spectators as most of us mortals will ever experience.

Second, you can't help but think of the history as you stand on that tee.  Bobby Jones, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus, Lee Trevino.  It was on that very tee that Trevino pulled the rubber snake from his bag and tossed it to Jack Nicklaus moments before teeing off in the playoff for the 1971 U.S. Open.  As the famous golf writer Dan Jenkins once said "Standing on the first tee, you have to feel a moving sehse of privilege.  You are exactly where just about every great in the game of golf has been before starting a major championship."

Thirdy, at 362 yards, it eases you into the round with a relatively easy par unless you aren't precise with either your drive or your approach, in which case bogey our even worse comes into play very quickly.  You're also immediately introduced to two of Merion's greatest qualities from a golf architecture standpoint - world class bunkering and excellent use of playing angles.  The bunkers are one of the first things that catch your eye as you look down the fairway.  As to playing angles, the 1st is a case study - the best line from the tee requires the player to challenge the bunkers on the left in order to be rewarded with the best angle to the green.  From the left side, your second shot plays into the width of the green.  If your drive happens to go up the right side (the most common miss for ordinary players), you are left with a tough angle over a greenside bunker.

For me, the 1st at Merion is like a great starter course at a fine restaurant - it whets your appetite for what follows and gives you a sense for the possibilities that lie ahead.

Jim

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2009, 05:17:16 PM »
Jim,

There is a tradition of no mulligans at every single golf club in the British Isles. Does that make Merion special ;)
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Jim Thornton

Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2009, 05:30:44 PM »
Dean-

Most certainly not.  Interesting that the there are many stories about the origin of the term mulligan.  One such story says that the term was invented by a Winged Foot member named David Mulligan.  I do know that on the first tee at Winged Foot, mulligans are allowed, even encouraged.

Frankly, I'm more of a purist.  I see no need for mulligans, but to each his own.

Jim

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2009, 05:42:27 PM »
I have never understood mulligans either Jim. Almost all courses have ranges to warm up. The round starts with the first shot, if yu want to hit another that is three off the tee. It is almost worth it's own thread.
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2009, 05:52:25 PM »
I have never understood mulligans either Jim. Almost all courses have ranges to warm up. The round starts with the first shot, if yu want to hit another that is three off the tee. It is almost worth it's own thread.

At my old club in Virginia, some of the guys played the "McDonald rule" for the first tee shot -- Hit 'till you're happy. 

I guess McDonald could be pretty wild off that first tee.   ::)

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2009, 10:35:46 PM »
 Bill,

    Actually I liked #1 at FH, but I wouldn't say it fits the question asked here. I saw it as different from the rest of the course not as a preview.
AKA Mayday

Matt_Ward

Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2009, 10:48:52 AM »
Anthony:

To answer what you originally posted -- the opening hole should be one where a fairly routine bogey can be made -- but it's never a sure thing for the par. Birdie is even tougher as it should be.

Let me point out that one of the more underrated starting holes I have ever played is the 1st at Bethpage Black. Tough to par but if you play for the bogey it's not that hard in that respect. The birdie possibility is also quite demanding -- one of the toughest, believe it or not, at the Black.

Another good example is the 1st at Alpine CC in northern NJ -- another Tillie layout. Tough to par -- but fairly routine for the five if that's what you want.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2009, 10:55:01 AM »
Bill,

    Actually I liked #1 at FH, but I wouldn't say it fits the question asked here. I saw it as different from the rest of the course not as a preview.

Why not?  Anthony asked what do you like on the opening hole.  #1 at Friars Head starts you out in the dunes, points you toward the downhill par 5 #2, is a reasonable par so it's a good getaway.  I liked it too.  Why was it different from the rest of the course?  Sit down on the couch over there, lay back, let's talk about your hostility toward Friars Head.  Could it have anything to do with Catholic school?  (The "Friars").

 ;D ;D
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 11:19:38 AM by Bill_McBride »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2009, 11:05:34 AM »
I have gone back and forth over what I consider to be a good opening hole.

At one time I preferred a longer hole (par 4 or even par 5), so that you had a chance to make two big swings out of the chute, and making 5 was an acceptable start.  I thought then that having a par-4 with a short but difficult approach (like the first at Merion) would waste one of the "equalizer" holes for the shorter hitter by placing it so early in the round.

Lately, I've been leaning toward shorter opening holes.  My first good one was the first at Lost Dunes; my current favorite is the first at Old Macdonald.  Both of them give you an ocean of room to hit the tee shot, but make it difficult to get close to the hole; you're probably not going to get yourself in a nasty hazard, but you have every chance of making 5 if you hit a loose approach and don't follow it up with an excellent chip or putt.

For the most part, though, I don't like to generalize about "favorite" types of opening holes, because once you have a favorite, it limits the number of acceptable solutions for a routing.  I'm even open to a par-3 starting hole if you could build one as cool as the first at The Berkshire (Blue) ... I just can't imagine I could convince a client to go that way.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2009, 11:23:59 AM »
Before I post on opening holes, can I just ask something:

Do US golfers lodge - for handicap - cards from rounds in which they have taken mulligans? I bloody hope not!

---

As far as opening holes, perhaps my favourite ever is the 1st at St Enodoc. It encapsulates all that is good about the course - blindness present, a bit quirky, great green complex.

Generally, I like an opening hole like 1 @ TOC and Royal Cinque Ports, greenfront burn there to keep you honest on the second, but an easy enough drive and enough movement in the greens that it's not a fait accompli par.

Matt_Ward

Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2009, 11:25:32 AM »
A good opening hole is like a shrewd card player -- never reveal all your moves so early in the day ... a bit of a tease does just fine.

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2009, 01:39:41 PM »
Thoughts on this opening hole? 


Tim Gavrich

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Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2009, 01:59:53 PM »
Tim - A "firm handshake" ... and introduce a player of what's to come?  You've just described the first at Aronimink perfectly.
Dan--

Indeed, the 1st at Aronimink is the Donald Ross exemplar in the leadoff position in Mr. Fay's book!  It's a neat book, one that Ross enthusiasts ought to get their hands on.

--Tim
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Sean Eidson

Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2009, 06:04:26 PM »
I want to be able to find my ball instead of reloading if my first shot of the day is a bad one.

I really loved Black Mesa.  I really hated the first hole.  It has a blind tee shot over water and a hill and a fairway that runs out quickly.  I can say unequivically that my recent buddies trip there got off on the wrong foot because two of us lost our balls on the first shot.  One guy lost two balls and was pissy for the next 8 holes.  Apparently, he missed the sign near the clubhouse.



Picture from Thomas Patterson's thread

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40087.0/



PIcture from Jason Topp's thread

Ian_L

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHAT DO YOU WANT ON THE OPENING HOLE?
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2009, 06:17:05 PM »
I don't care much what the stroke average is, but I'm not a big fan of having to reload off the first tee.  So I would say being able to find your ball even after a pretty bad shot is preferable.  Or at least having a safe side to miss.