[Adrian_Stiff]

This is a question for Tom really but I was looking a google earth and ofcourse there will be a very good reason why the course is numbered as it is rather than starting at the 8th (as the 1st) then going 9, 10, 11, 12, then 4, 5, 6 and 7.. a loop of 9 then 1, 2, 3, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. Or even flipping to number as 1-3 then 13 -18 as the front nine then 8-12 and 4 to 7.

[Ben Sims]

Adrian,

Isn't it cool that the quality of golf holes are such that even asking this question is a possibility?

Not to jack the thread OR to talk bad about the course, but can you imagine swapping nines at Bandon Dunes?  I can't.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Ben, I dont know the land, only from the pics and the aerial... I think I know what Tom will say but......

All the courses looks lovely.

[Sean Leary]

Tom has talked about this before. I believe part of it was Keiser's call.

[Steve_Roths]

I think this is coverd in the future release of "The Making of Pacific Dunes".

[Bill_McBride]

Tom has talked about this before. I believe part of it was Keiser's call.

I think there's only one walk of over 40 yards on the current routing, 4 green to 5 tee.  How far is it from the 18th green to the 8th tee?

[Raphael_Larson]

Tom has talked about this before. I believe part of it was Keiser's call.

I think there's only one walk of over 40 yards on the current routing, 4 green to 5 tee.  How far is it from the 18th green to the 8th tee?

The walk from 11-12 is much more than 40 yards and probably similar in length to the walk from 18 green to 8 tee.

[Bill_McBride]

Tom has talked about this before. I believe part of it was Keiser's call.

I think there's only one walk of over 40 yards on the current routing, 4 green to 5 tee.  How far is it from the 18th green to the 8th tee?

The walk from 11-12 is much more than 40 yards and probably similar in length to the walk from 18 green to 8 tee.

From looking at the aerial, it looks (to me at least) as though the walk from current 1st tee to 8th tee is a lot farther.....It actually does look like i was remembering the 11-12 walk rather than 4-5.

[Tom_Doak]

Adrian:

The reason is simply that I came up with the routing the way it is, and we all walked it that way and loved the sequence that way.

It did not even occur to me that the scorecard was so weird until we were at lunch after our walk-through.  I penciled out the scorecard for Mr. Keiser and asked him if it was a problem the way it was, and he said no, just because he liked it so much the way it was presented.

I did come up with the two alternatives you suggested, just in case Mike got cold feet.  But I didn't like either of them quite as much.  In the first instance, none of us liked the idea of getting to the consecutive par-3 holes as numbers 3 and 4 ... and in the second, I really didn't like the idea of walking all the way from 18 green to 8 tee at the turn.

Also, Mr. Keiser did not care so much about returning to the clubhouse at #9, but he was uncomfortable with the split of par 34-37 which is the way it breaks down if you number it as you suggested.  That really wasn't a factor for me -- High Pointe was par 37-34.

In the end, I knew that most other designers would have switched the sequence to make two even nines, and that was another factor in favor of not doing so, in my mind.

[Bill_McBride]

 I also like the way three of the par 5s (3, 12, 15) parallel each other on similar terrain in opposite directions.

[JohnV]

Tom has talked about this before. I believe part of it was Keiser's call.

I think there's only one walk of over 40 yards on the current routing, 4 green to 5 tee.  How far is it from the 18th green to the 8th tee?

13 to 14 is more than 40 yards.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Thanks Tom, I think in many respects to this instance (people are going to play 18 not 9) the flow of the course and sequenceing of the holes outweighs the two nines thing. I had just wondered if the two nine routing which is clearly there, was done first then you saw a better way to sequence the holes.

[Kalen Braley]

I took some measurements and came up with the following for distances more than 40 yards.

All yardages according to Google Earth.  Measurements are started from approx edge of green that is closest to next tee box.

3 Green to 4 tee -  ~135 yards
4 Green to 5 tee - Depending on where actual tees are anywhere from 45 - 75 yds.
6 Green to 7 tee -  ~ 125 yards
7 Green to 8 tee - Depening on tee location anywhere from ~ 55-70 yards.
8 Green to 9 tee - Depending on tee location anywhere from ~ 45 -80 yards
9 lower Green to lower 10 tee - ~100-110 yards
11 Green to 12 Tee - Shortest route I could find was ~115 yards, assuming one crosses over 5 tee box.  If you walk around it, it's 30-40 yards longer.
12 Green to 13 Tee - Based on varrying tee box placements this is anywere from 50-100 yards.
13 Green to 14 Tee - Based on tee location anywhere from 150-170 yards.
14 Green to 15 Tee - Based on tee box used anywhere from 45 - 75 yards.
15 Green to 16 Tee - Approx 70-75 yards.
16 Green to 17 Tee - Depending on tee box used anywhere from 50-80 yards.
17 Green to 18 Tee - ~80 yards to lower tee boxes, ~120 yards to upper tee boxes.

P.S.  The walk from 18 green to 8 Tee if it were used differently in the routing would be ~ 275 yards

[Bill_McBride]

I took some measurements and came up with the following for distances more than 40 yards.

All yardages according to Google Earth.  Measurements are started from approx edge of green that is closest to next tee box.

3 Green to 4 tee -  ~135 yards
4 Green to 5 tee - Depending on where actual tees are anywhere from 45 - 75 yds.
6 Green to 7 tee -  ~ 125 yards
7 Green to 8 tee - Depening on tee location anywhere from ~ 55-70 yards.
8 Green to 9 tee - Depending on tee location anywhere from ~ 45 -80 yards
9 lower Green to lower 10 tee - ~100-110 yards
11 Green to 12 Tee - Shortest route I could find was ~115 yards, assuming one crosses over 5 tee box.  If you walk around it, it's 30-40 yards longer.
12 Green to 13 Tee - Based on varrying tee box placements this is anywere from 50-100 yards.
13 Green to 14 Tee - Based on tee location anywhere from 150-170 yards.
14 Green to 15 Tee - Based on tee box used anywhere from 45 - 75 yards.
15 Green to 16 Tee - Approx 70-75 yards.
16 Green to 17 Tee - Depending on tee box used anywhere from 50-80 yards.
17 Green to 18 Tee - ~80 yards to lower tee boxes, ~120 yards to upper tee boxes.

P.S.  The walk from 18 green to 8 Tee if it were used differently in the routing would be ~ 275 yards

You need to recalibrate your scale.

[Kalen Braley]

I took some measurements and came up with the following for distances more than 40 yards.

All yardages according to Google Earth.  Measurements are started from approx edge of green that is closest to next tee box.

3 Green to 4 tee -  ~135 yards
4 Green to 5 tee - Depending on where actual tees are anywhere from 45 - 75 yds.
6 Green to 7 tee -  ~ 125 yards
7 Green to 8 tee - Depening on tee location anywhere from ~ 55-70 yards.
8 Green to 9 tee - Depending on tee location anywhere from ~ 45 -80 yards
9 lower Green to lower 10 tee - ~100-110 yards
11 Green to 12 Tee - Shortest route I could find was ~115 yards, assuming one crosses over 5 tee box.  If you walk around it, it's 30-40 yards longer.
12 Green to 13 Tee - Based on varrying tee box placements this is anywere from 50-100 yards.
13 Green to 14 Tee - Based on tee location anywhere from 150-170 yards.
14 Green to 15 Tee - Based on tee box used anywhere from 45 - 75 yards.
15 Green to 16 Tee - Approx 70-75 yards.
16 Green to 17 Tee - Depending on tee box used anywhere from 50-80 yards.
17 Green to 18 Tee - ~80 yards to lower tee boxes, ~120 yards to upper tee boxes.

P.S.  The walk from 18 green to 8 Tee if it were used differently in the routing would be ~ 275 yards

You need to recalibrate your scale.

Lol...Bill I think you need to check the Rx on your glasses!!!

Maybe its time to "upgrade" to some thicker lenses!!     

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