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Warwick Loton

Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2009, 04:34:24 PM »
That happened on the 21st of November 2002. It was asserted by one famous player that the greens were stimping 17 that day. Victoria had been determined to have slick greens, worrying that their course wouldn't be long enough to challenge the pros. They may have crossed the line on speed but the thing that made the course unplayable, rather than merely very difficult, was the pin placement on the 3rd hole. Putts that missed the hole (at the back left of that green) would horse-shoe back down to where they had been putted from... over and over and over.

A similar thing happened at the 1987 Australian Open (at Royal Melbourne). Again the greens were slick, but what made the course unplayable was a particularly unwise pin placement (on the 1st hole of RME). And again one day's play had to be abandoned.

On each occasion there was an uproar. During the 2002 incident, Greg Normal demanded that "somebody's head should roll". It's easy to imagine the terror among officials of a similar thing happening again, particularly given Tiger's presence and the way this tournament's been hyped. Still, it was only a week ago that the local tour's tournament director, Andrew Langford Jones, spoke publicly about how exciting it was going to be seeing KH presented in the way of decades past, f+f. Reminds me of that saying, "a week's a long time in politics".


« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 05:58:13 PM by Warwick Loton »

Andrew Bertram

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2009, 04:57:57 PM »
Anthony

This time last week the greens were super hard and very fast and the discussion amongst players who were in town last week was that it could get out of control if they kept getting firmer. 2002 at Vic has been mentioned by more than a few players.

The start of November has been the hottest in Melbourne since 1902 and the forecast for saturday is extreme - 36 degrees with strong hot northerlies blowing. There is certainly a degree of protection and caution with the set up.

Early yesterday the greens were stopping and by late in the day they were releasing out nicely. The same will be about today with conditions simply perfect for scoring this morning.

Saturday afternoon will be where the course gets a little nasty if the forecast is right.

I spent July in the UK and had my first experience of the Surrey Heathland at Sunningdale, Swinley Forest, Walton Heath, The Bekshire and some others and there are certainly similarities to sand belt golf with the terrain and set up of courses.

The week has been great so far and we have a lot of interstate / overseas golfers playing with us this week as we are 5 minutes from the Heath. The benfits of Tiger will be seen for some time to come with the promotion of the Sand belt on TV in the US and England as well as interstate.

Andrew Bertram
Head Professional
The Yarra Yarra Golf Club
 



D_Malley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2009, 05:18:14 PM »
how many times did tiger hit driver in rd.1?

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2009, 05:53:00 PM »
One of them referred to it as the "Sunningdale of Australia".  As one who has seen neither Kingston Heath nor Sunningdale is that a fair analogy?

An interesting analogy and not a bad one I'd say. The terrain at the two courses are completely different though - KH is relatively flat with a few changes in topography whereas changes at Sunningdale are constant.

Both courses are absolute joys to play and the variety of holes and the shotmaking skills asked of one are superb.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2009, 06:40:28 PM »
I read that Tiger hit driver 5 times in round 1, the three par 5s to be sure, and 18 where he bogeyed I think.

Kenny Baer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2009, 10:34:27 PM »
This looks a little more like it; I just saw Tiger hit 9 iron into #7 (I think) and it released somewhat.  I would love to see the fways firm up.  I have yet to see a tee ball hit today but yesterday drivers looked like they were rolling less than 10 yds. 

The golf course looks awesome; for those of you who have played both how does it compare to RM (composite)?  Not which is "better" but how are they similar and how are they different?  From my understanding they are pretty close to each other, correct?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2009, 11:31:32 PM »
The greens in that 2002 event had to be INCREDIBLY fast.  I was at Victoria three weeks after the event and made them show me the hole location which had proven impossible [where missed uphill putts turned around and came back to you] ... I could not believe them.  The slope wasn't even two per cent.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2009, 11:46:28 PM »
The greens look like they are getting firm and fast, and there are getting there quickly!  Tiger is dominating as usual.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2009, 01:57:42 AM »
The golf course looks awesome; for those of you who have played both how does it compare to RM (composite)?  Not which is "better" but how are they similar and how are they different?  From my understanding they are pretty close to each other, correct?

Kenny

They're about a 5-10min drive apart

The "composite" course at RM has some significant topography changes whereas KH really has one significant hill that is incorporated into the routing at various stages. RMW is spread across 2 paddocks and RME across 3. They incorporate 6 holes from RME + 12 from RMW - all on the main paddock - to get the best composite layout for mine.

Both RM and KH have similar styled bunkering and surrounds but RM is certainly wider off the tee and it's not surprising to see much more positional play off the tee at KH. They are must plays on the Sandbelt.

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2009, 03:23:56 AM »
The Sky commentators were again enthusing about KH on the little bit of day 2 I saw this morning before work.  Tom Doak even got a couple of name checks, although not for any courses he's built!  Tony Johnstone made reference to KH being ranked the 2nd best course in Australia and 27 in the world. Steve Beddow noted that course golf rankings were subjective but the best book on the subject was The Confidential Guide.  Johnstone responded that Tom had also written a biography on Alaistair MacKenzie.

The greens look to be gradually turning brown and seemed quicker.  Sky said they were stimping at 12.4 and the forecast for the weekend was that temperatures could reach 40C.
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2009, 11:14:44 AM »
Got the kids to bed then plopped down on the couch and caught up with Golf Channel's coverage last night. Tiger was on his game early on wasn't he?  He looked as though he was really enjoying himself too.  Pampling's OB par was pretty good!

The color on my tv screen didn't look too green, a nice brownish olive I thought.  The golf course looks so damn cool and the announce team did a nice job with describing the shots.  Will be watching again this evening if they'll let me...it's movies/stay up late night.  Mommy come home!

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2009, 02:21:24 PM »
Course looks awesome - especially the bunkering, I could look at them all day.

Anybody want to back against Tiger?
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2009, 04:17:48 PM »
Course looks in great shape for mid-spring. Didn't see any wide-brimmed hats with cork hangers, so the flies can't be too bad.
It must have tough in the group behind Tiger, having to wait for the spectators to clear the fairways where they stood watching.
Considering that the spectators were lining three holes waiting for Tiger, a better bet would to have been a straggler and fill in his wake.

Mike Sweeney

Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2009, 05:41:04 PM »
Watching DVR from last night now. Phenomenal looking course. Any comparisons to Shinnecock?

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2009, 06:18:46 AM »
Phenomenal looking course. Any comparisons to Shinnecock?

What are you inferring Mike ?

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2009, 07:13:26 AM »
We walked all 18 holes today and we were pretty stunned by the quality of the course and the conditioning, both perfect.

If the wind gets up like it did at the end of today I would be thinking that Tiger will not win it, although he did miss a heap of putts.
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Mike Sweeney

Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2009, 07:33:38 AM »
Phenomenal looking course. Any comparisons to Shinnecock?

What are you inferring Mike ?

Kevin

On TV KH looks like Shinnecock visually. I assume you have played both after your trip. Do they play and look similar?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2009, 02:59:14 PM »
I would not think to compare Shinnecock and Kingston Heath.

Kingston Heath is VERY flat, apart from the small hill in one corner of the property which is the site for #15 green.  And at Shinnecock the undulation is one of the key elements of the course.

Also, Kingston Heath is a very small piece of property ... the routing is well triangulated, but the holes are much closer together than Shinnecock, with some trees for visual separation.

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2009, 06:29:39 PM »
I was there for a couple of hours yesterday (Saturday). The fairways are very green - strikingly emerald in real life and not a dull green at all which you would expect if they were drier. Greens were quite heavily watered Fri evening and Tiger was complaining they were too soft after yesterday's round. Temp was only 29C so not really that hot at all. Course looks magnificent though, a real treat.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2009, 07:38:36 PM »
Phenomenal looking course. Any comparisons to Shinnecock?

What are you inferring Mike ?

Kevin

On TV KH looks like Shinnecock visually. I assume you have played both after your trip. Do they play and look similar?

Mike

I was trying to understand your angle - thanks for elaborating.

I would suggest both venues are superbly setup for both pro and amateurs alike. Both courses have a great variety of holes and wonderfull little chipping areas around the greens. They both have very firm and fast putting surfaces and well crafted bunkers scattered throughout.

They are possibly my favourite venues in each country but they certainly do have different scales of topography. Shinnecock has a much more open layout whereas as Tom said - KH is routed across a small property and relatively small changes in elevation and is tree lined throughout.

Both are wonderfull golfing experiences - when are you coming "down under" ?  ;D





Mike Sweeney

Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2009, 08:18:31 PM »

They are possibly my favourite venues in each country but they certainly do have different scales of topography. Shinnecock has a much more open layout whereas as Tom said - KH is routed across a small property and relatively small changes in elevation and is tree lined throughout.

Both are wonderfull golfing experiences - when are you coming "down under" ?  ;D


I did see an aerial of KH after this post and was surprised by the Merion like surroundings. It looks so open on HDTV.

If Disney opens a park in Oz, I MAY be able to talk my wife into a trip!!


Robin Doodson

Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2009, 08:35:01 PM »
Interestingly, Sportbet here in australia paid out $200,000 on tiger winning. might be regretting that decision now.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2009, 09:28:55 PM »
The thing that is unusual for KH, at least for the third round last night, is that the fairways were much, much greener than the greens - the opposite of what you normally see.  Does anyone know why that is?  Are they watering the fairways more than the greens?

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2009, 11:02:42 PM »
We really need one of the majors in Australia like Tennis.

Andrew Bertram

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 2009 Australian Masters
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2009, 01:30:03 AM »
The fairways are very green due to the perfect conditions of the last month.

October was like a second coming of winter and there was a concern the course would not come up as well as it could. 3 weeks ago it poured rain for a weekend, about 2 - 2 1/2 inches and it has not been below 30 degrees since. Perfect growing conditions for the fiarways and they have gone absolutely nuts.

They have not watered the fairways any more than normal in the last few weeks. Having been in drought for so long we had solid spring rains topped off by the 2 inches 3 weeks ago. The heat has done the rest.

It was a great week for all, wonderful tournament and from the mouth of an insider they are thinking Tiger is a 75% chance to be back next year.

All the other sand belt clubs experienced a great influx of interstate players paying to play.

It is a shame the World Championship events are really glorified US PGA Tour events in the states and not travelling as was the concept to other parts of the world like South Africa, Japan, Asai as well as Australia.