16th Hole at Royal Cinque Ports Deal

[Scott Warren]

Christian,

Here is a look at the approach.

The pin Mark refers to is front right behind that big ol' dune, over the trap.

[Gordon Irvine]

Summer view

[Gordon Irvine]

16th Green front right pin position

[Bill_McBride]

Summer view

Thanks for the summer view, that's how we saw it at the BUDA.
 
You can really see what the challenge would be if this were played as a long par 4 with that mound up on the right front protecting pretty much any pins center or right, and certainly affecting any running shots.

As a par 4 it would have to play around 4.7 even with tees at 450 yards, that mound would propel all but the shortest irons left or over or even right.

[Gordon Irvine]

16 th green approach

[Mark Chaplin]

I am asked to remind Gordon that "Bernard Darwin loved the pitch from the valley of inglorious security.. It is quite dicey as a half wedge to a semi blind green approach". From the valley you have probably the flattest ie on the course which does little to help matters!

As with any links course these holes are so wind dependant, even a rabbit like me was getting up with driver & a six iron with no wind on the bouncy fairways. Now the course has softened even the lightest breeze against puts the hole out of range in two.

[Mark Chaplin]

Gordon that is the view I had to the really tight front right position in my second round of the Willingdon this year. My partner urged a safe shot 15ft left of the pin, spurred on by a kummel swilling "mob" who ventured out after a very long lunch - Muldoon may remember he was present - I fluked the shot stiff to the pin. It was only on reaching the green i realised 5ft right and the ball would have ended up over the cycle path.

I wonder if Tiger would play more aggressively if the crowd donned jacket and tie, walked the fairways with massive glasses of port or kummel and gave him apres luncheon advice.....interesting thought!!

[Gordon Irvine]

yep well said Mark mind you at the rate i,m increasing the Deal greens and finding new pin positions who know,s how you will finish up playing the 16 th!!!!!!!

[Tony_Muldoon]

Mark

Are there any figures available as to which holes palyed the hardest in Open qualifiers or the recent Amatuer?  Agiain I 'spose it depends on what the wind was doing those days.


PS obviously you were aluding to me being an observer of the "mob".  Good job none of them can read!


Truly it was an amazing fluke shot!

[Mark Chaplin]

Indeed, the cycle path will be running about 16 on the stimp!! We were noticing just how big the 13th green is getting, there must be a couple of tough to get at back right positions there. I love the back right shelf on 7 although have only seen it in use twice. How far will you take the 3rd right into the flat area?

Tony - at the last qualifier 16 was down wind, I watched several groups and at least one in each group hit it into the little hollow with the 150 marker just before the flat. This time round I guess the 18th will play hardest whichever way it blows.

[Bill_McBride]

This time round I guess the 18th will play hardest whichever way it blows.

Mark, why is that?  18 seemed like perhaps one of the least troublesome par 4s - if your tee shot was in the fairway.  Certainly #7, #9, #11, #12, #13, #15 must all play harder.............although perhaps with less pressure!

[Gordon Irvine]

Mark 11th has an area at the back now that I have the left side of green pushed out. 9th needs to go about 2meters left which will take time  and 18th still has potential !!!!!

[Mark Chaplin]

Bill we played 18 at about 390yds the back tee is 445. The green then sits at an awkward angle if your coming in with plenty of metal against the breeze. I guess 15 usually plays toughest at 450 from the stones, blind/semi blind second shot to a green running away from you.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill we played 18 at about 390yds the back tee is 445. The green then sits at an awkward angle if your coming in with plenty of metal against the breeze. I guess 15 usually plays toughest at 450 from the stones, blind/semi blind second shot to a green running away from you.

I was way too smart to play from the tips!  (You have to be at my advanced age!  )

[Jamie Barber]

Does the PAR designation really matter? It is what it is.

I still can't believe I lost a ball there after my best tee shot of the day at BUDA, right down the middle and vanished!

[Bill_McBride]

Does the PAR designation really matter? It is what it is.

I still can't believe I lost a ball there after my best tee shot of the day at BUDA, right down the middle and vanished!

Somewhere there is a rabbit wondering what that white ball is doing down his hole!

[Mark Pearce]

Jamie,

Same thing nearly happened to me.  I hit what I thought was a great drive and couldn't find it until, just before the 5 minutes was up, it was located in crappy rough on the right hand side, from where a 7 iron and three putts resulted in a solid par.

[Jamie Barber]

I wouldn't mind but Giles hit his a rather a lot further right and we walked straight to it

[Bill_McBride]

Jamie,

Same thing nearly happened to me.  I hit what I thought was a great drive and couldn't find it until, just before the 5 minutes was up, it was located in crappy rough on the right hand side, from where a 7 iron and three putts resulted in a solid par.

Sorry but (with a wink to John Mayhugh  ), shouldn't that be "from whence...?"   

[Mark Woodger]

it was located in crappy rough on the right hand side

try as i might i can't avoid that right hand rough.  

I found this thread very interesting to read and thank you Gordon for the comments on the changes to the course.  

With regards to 16 i would rather play it as a par 5 off the current tee than a par 4 off a forward tee. The reason being that in a medium to strong prevailing breeze the back 7 really are a challenge (for me a 12 handicapper) to get to in regulation, not just in length but in the precision required to do so. With that in mind i feel 16 as a par 5 gives me an opportunity to pick up a shot that i might have lost to on the previous few holes. That is not to say 16 is easy as a 5, far from it and i can't recall a birdie in the last 20 times i have played it but i stand on the tee with a bit of hope and slightly less pressure to nail 2 shots to get to the green and then face the challenges of the green.

Also with holes 3 and 12 already 4.XX holes (and maybe others) IMHO i am ok with 16 being a 5.

However i am not going to lose sleep whichever way it is played and it is certainly not going to stop me playing as either way its bloody good fun.

[Noel Freeman]

Bump for an old thread..

I was going thru some old archives today when I finally found my copy of Bernard Darwin's May 29th, 1909 article on Deal..

On the 16th he said the following:

(483y) By general consensus of opinion admitted to be the finest hole on the Deal course.  It is a long hole and possibly the only drawback to it is that there are so many days when it is impossible to reach he green in two shots.  But whatever the length of the approach shot may be, it is always interesting, as the green is perched up on an isolated plateau and can only be reached by a well-played shot.  With a helping wind there is NO FINER HOLE to be found anywhere..

[hhuffines]

Well, the new RCP scorecard has 16 as a par 4 for all men's tees.   Stroke index at 7.  Did anyone attend the recent meeting and could you share the official reason for this?  We're there many questions related to 16?

Thanks!

[Mark Chaplin]

Hart you should have got an email from the club yesterday. If not PM me and I'll forward it.

[hhuffines]

Mark, thanks, I got and thought I read it, but have missed specifics on changing par on 16.  Everything else looks great.  I will go back and re read...