Was Charles Blair Macdonald really the father of Golf Architecture in America

[Bill Brightly]

Now I know how my mother felt when my brothers and I beat the hell out of each other day after day...She might try to resolve one issue, but we'd be back at it the next day over something else. I guess we just needed to fight...

I don't think it matters one bit if NGLA was 100% Macdonald's brainchild, something he came up with after a comment made by Travis, or Old Tom Morris taking CBM by the hand and saying: "This is how a golf hole should be built." What matters is that CBM researched the greatest courses of his day, planned National, raised the funds for it, built it, promoted it, came up with great turf for it, and later perfected it.

Macdonald not only spawned Raynor and Banks and the MacRaynor school...NGLA was a cattle prod to Tilly, Ross, and other architects of the day. Their task became completely different than it would have been without NGLA. They couldn't just build golf courses anymore, they had to attempt to build GREAT golf courses with 18 really good holes. It worked, the others did a great job many times, and father would approve.

On to the next fight?

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

I don't believe anyone said Travis should have gotten the accolades CBM did in his career; I sure know I never said anything like that on here. But just as a point of fact on Travis----he didn't design his first course in 1907, he designed his first course in 1899 with John Duncan Dunn. It is called Ekwanok, it's in Vermont and it is very good and seemingly always was!

[Patrick_Mucci]

David Moriarty,

CBM went to Scotland in 1872 where he attended the University of St Andrews.

This is where he supposedly learned the game of golf.

He remained in Scotland for three (3) years.

Hence, his 1902 and 1904 trips weren't his first architectural bite of the apple.

One would imagine that playing TOC, along with observing the play of other great golfers of their day, imbued him with a sufficient understanding of architecture as it relates to play.

He later wrote, "The courses of Great Britain abound in classic and notable holes, and one only has to STUDY them and adopt their best and boldest features.  Yet in most of their best holes there is always room for improvement."

It would seem that CBM's three years, from 1872 to 1875, coupled with his trips in 1902 and 1904 armed him sufficiently, in the ways understanding bad, fair, good and great architecture, along with a keen sense of the game of golf.  

[TEPaul]

"It worked, the others did a great job many times, and father would approve."


BillB:

I agree with you in what you said that NGLA was a cattle-prod to most all other significant American architects around that day and some years later to do their very best but part of the fascination here, at least to me, is that, for various reasons and truly interesting ones, a really good number of them essentially shunned that sort of template hole model that Macdonald seemed to trumpet so successfully in the beginning. Sure Raynor and Banks and a few others perhaps may've stuck with that basic idea or what they viewed as that basic idea but with others it became unpopular and the essential reasons they gave for why it became unpopular with others could basically not be better articulated than by Travis himself in his remarks that Tom MacWood posted on Reply #243!

And I also think it is not true to say that "Father" (being CBM) approved of what he saw in the years to come following NLGA. I'm afraid he became massively disallusioned about a lot of things he saw out there in all kinds of areas to do with golf. But that is another story completely and in my opinion, another totally fascinating story about CBM and his incredible complexities, which is frankly the very reason I always have been so fascinated by the man.

But alas, if we or particularly I got into that subject there are those three or so on here who will start screeching again that it just shows my true "agenda" which is to say things on here AGAINST the man.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth about him is just the truth about him with his warts and complexities and all and it's totally fascinating to me even if there are a few on here who can't deal with it because they obviously want to protect and preserve his legend at all costs or even iconize it into even more than it ever truly was, as great as it may've been, at least for a significant time and place in the history and evolution of GCA.

[DMoriarty]

David Moriarty,

CBM went to Scotland in 1872 where he attended the University of St Andrews.

This is where he supposedly learned the game of golf.

He remained in Scotland for three (3) years.

Hence, his 1902 and 1904 trips weren't his first architectural bite of the apple.

One would imagine that playing TOC, along with observing the play of other great golfers of their day, imbued him with a sufficient understanding of architecture as it relates to play.

He later wrote, "The courses of Great Britain abound in classic and notable holes, and one only has to STUDY them and adopt their best and boldest features.  Yet in most of their best holes there is always room for improvement."

It would seem that CBM's three years, from 1872 to 1875, coupled with his trips in 1902 and 1904 armed him sufficiently, in the ways understanding bad, fair, good and great architecture, along with a keen sense of the game of golf.  

Patrick,  

I realize all this.   I was just commenting on Rich's preposterous assumption that CBM didn't play golf abroad between 1875 and 1902.   My comments also apply to TEPaul's assumption that he only played twice during the between leaving St. Andrews and 1894.    Both claim to have read Scotland's Gift, but apparently neither read it very carefully.   Nor do the realize, that in addition to the numerous trips in the late 1870's and the 1880's, Macdonald continued to travel abroad regularly in the 1890s.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick:

I don't believe anyone said Travis should have gotten the accolades CBM did in his career; I sure know I never said anything like that on here. But just as a point of fact on Travis----he didn't design his first course in 1907, he designed his first course in 1899 with John Duncan Dunn. It is called Ekwanok, it's in Vermont and it is very good and seemingly always was!

TEPaul,

I have a hard time believing that an individual who took up golf in 1897 was designing golf courses within two years.

I've read the attribution by C&W and don't buy it.
In addition, Travis himself, in 1921, when listing courses that he specifically designed DOESN'T list Ekwanok.
Why would he omit a "signature" golf course ?

It's more likely that Travis worked for Dunn.
Elevating him to co-designer seems ...... gratuitous or legend building.

Bob Labbance in his book about Travis, "The Old Man" mentions that Travis traveled to Ekwanok with Dunn, spent at least two weeks each summer He describes WT's involvement as follows.  "Travis and Dunn (notice how Travis, a non-architect, is given top billing by the author) worked the site for tees and greens - designing in the field as they went- until the routing was set"

It seems logical to me, that Dunn had Travis hit shots, in order to determine where the features should be placed, much the same as Jones at ANGC.

If Travis was indeed a co-designer, why did he not take credit for same, and why did he wait 8 additional years before venturing back into designing golf courses ?

[Jim_Kennedy]

But alas, if we or particularly I got into that subject there are those three or so on here who will start screeching again that it just shows my true "agenda" which is to say things on here AGAINST the man. Tom Paul

That's the type of remark one expects from a spoiled brat, but you're not a child anymore Tom, so put away the kneepants and the blazer and start acting like an adult. Vindictive and petty behavior doesn't cut it in the real world, and it makes you look so small.

[Tom MacWood]

Tom MacWood,

With Travis having played his first round in 1897 and designing his first golf course in 1907, I don't see how anyone could logically claim that Travis was entitled to such accolades.

Wouldn't Emmett be in line ahead of him, having designed three (3) courses by 1901 ?


Pat
I totally agree with you. There are quite a few who would make the list before Travis, including CBM, Emmet, Willie Campbell, JD Dunn, Herbert Leeds and HJ Tweedie. Unfortunately since TEP and Wayne got involved this thread has nothing to with historical accuracy, the thread has devolved into one more opportunity for them to urinate on CBM, in the figurative sense of course.

[David Stamm]

As a side note, Dunn's ability as a course architect should not be overlooked. He designed quite a few courses here in California, some of which are quite noteworthy, such as Lake Elsinore that was featured in Thomas' book.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Here's what Ben Sayers, the Professional from North Berwick, wrote in 1914:

My son George is in America, to whom I paid a visit at the Merion Golf Club. He likes his position very much, and is quite at home there. I was very much impressed with the two courses which they have made at Merion. They are very well constructed and the golf is very good indeed. I had three days golf over the National course, and I was very highly impressed indeed. I came to the conclusion that the National course is the best course I have ever seen, in fact, I was sorry that I went to see it, because I always thought that St. Andrews was the very best test of golf in the world. But after seeing the National my opinion was altered: I cannot now say that Scotland possesses the best course. Not only is every hole on the National course perfect, but every shot is perfect, and has to be played with great judgment. The architecture of the course is so good and the formation of the greens so natural that the whole place looks as if it was a hundred years old. The course is full of what I call Scotch golf: thinking golf is required for every shot, even more so than at St. Andrews, and I have not played a course where I had to use so many different kinds of clubs, which of course only goes to show what a grand test of golf it must be. I was very much surprised to see such good turf. The Redan hole of the National is a wonderful copy of the North Berwick Redan. It gives one the same feeling when standing on the tee to play the tee-shot. I think also the Eden hole at St. Andrews is reproduced to a nicety, Straths bunker being very well placed. The last hole is a very good one, and puts me in mind of the first hole at North Berwick, called Point Garry, only the last hole at the National is a little longer. The National course is the last word in golf courses.

[TEPaul]

Macdonald seems pretty comprehensive chronicling his golf abroad during that period he referred to as his "Dark Age." He tells us he played a good deal of golf at Hoylake (where he actually joined one year) and he tells us he played a few rounds at Wimbleton with his friend his friend Alfred Lubbuck, and he tells us he played occasionally at Cambridge on Coldham Commons which he described 'as the poorest excuse for a golf course I ever saw in my life.'

He also explained how he worked so hard there wasn't all that much time for golf other than apparently those times he played quite a bit for extended periods but always at Royal Liverpool GC at Hoylake when he generally stayed in the Royal Liverpool Hotel.

So there again it looks like TOC and Hoylake were the only courses he was familiar with that were any good (or so he said in his autobiography) during those years before he finally decided to dedicate three separate trips abroad to the study of architecture beginning in 1902.

I must say I never looked at it this way---it's a surprise to me but Macdonald also said he worked very very hard during most of those years. I don't even know what he did. I know he became a floor broker when he got to New York in 1900 but I don't know what he did before that. And I certainly know he never took a cent for anything he ever did in golf or architecture.

[TEPaul]

"Unfortunately since TEP and Wayne got involved this thread has nothing to with historical accuracy, the thread has devolved into one more opportunity for them to urinate on CBM, in the figurative sense of course."


Tom MacWood:

You better just stop God-damn saying THAT on this website! You already got thrown off this website for a number of months for saying that. Do you want to get thrown off the site again?

And furthermore, that is a God Damned lie to say that about Wayne and certainly me. Nothing could be further from the truth with my opinion about Macdonald and I've said so on here constantly. It's a lie, you know it's a lie and you should also know that the man who tells lies on here when he knows perfectly well he is lying----is called a LIAR----and that is you Tom MacWood and you just proved it again today with that remark quoted above. 
 
 
 

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

CBM worked at the Chicago Board of Trade when he lived in Illinois.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

Actually Bob Labbance said quite a bit more than that about Travis and his role and time and what he did at Ekwanok in the fall of 1899 and even who he did it for and why.

I knew him pretty damn well, and I will tell you right now that Bob Labbance was a damn sight better golf architectural researcher and analyst and historian and writer than anybody on this website ever was or has been. We got to know him the real way in that business through his research on Spring Haven and his research and writing of the Philmont history book. That guy did it the right way and the real way---no sitting at home in Vermont JUST on his computer looking at indirect newspaper article information without creating a real relationship with the club or architect he was researching and writing about like those two screeching constant critics of everybody and everything on this website!

[TEPaul]

"CBM worked at the Chicago Board of Trade when he lived in Illinois."


Pat:

Thank you, yeah now I remember that. I guess he must have been a commidities broker in his years in Chicago. When he got to New York he switched to being a stock broker----a floor broker actually, I believe. I think he worked for Barney & Co which must have been a forerunner of Smith Barney.

[Tom MacWood]

Tom MacWood:

I am completely overjoyed with your post #243. THAT is the very thing that Wayne was trying to say and the very point he was trying to make on here some years ago about how others (who may've previously done it to some extent) eventually chose not to continue to endorse or ascribe to the architectural idea and concept or model of using and reusing endlessly template holes from abroad (or otherwise)! This was his very point about both how and why and even when American architecture and its architects' developing styles and types would go their own separate ways in the future with their own unique and developing architectural ideas and philosophies.

Wayne's point was for anyone to assume or conclude that American architecture continued to follow the Macdonald/Raynor/Banks model and type and style (generally referred to as the "National School of Architecture") in any really significant way into the future of American architecture is basically nonsense, and that anyone on here or elsewhere who contends such a thing really doesn't have much idea how to go about an intelligent analysis of "contrasting" types and styles and principles and models and such, but who only falls into the trap of looking at these things SO GENERALLY that in the end what they come up with is nothing much more that some kind of "comparison" or similarity!

To be honest that remark of Travis' is so on point and frankly brilliant, perhaps we should start another thread on here entitled "Re: Was Walter S. Travis really the father of Golf Arhitecture in America?" I am not at all implying where I may end up standing on a discussion on that question but given that brilliant remark you just posted of Travis' it should promise to be a great discussion and education on the history and evolution of American Golf Course Architecture!

TEP
I'm surprised you and Wayne were not aware of the feud between Travis & Macdonald, and the feud between Travis & Emmet, and the exchange I just quoted. If there anything this thread has shown it is how little you and Wayne know about golf architecture history. First you tried to make the case that Travis inspired the Best Hole Discussion (WRONG), then you tried to make the case Travis was the first to advocate templates (WRONG), and then finally you claimed CBM didn't have much playing experience in Britain (WRONG). I have to give you both credit, you will go to extraordinary lengths to push your agenda (in this case discrediting CBM) including throwing each other under the bus.

[Tom MacWood]

"Unfortunately since TEP and Wayne got involved this thread has nothing to with historical accuracy, the thread has devolved into one more opportunity for them to urinate on CBM, in the figurative sense of course."


Tom MacWood:

You better just stop God-damn saying THAT on this website! You already got thrown off this website for a number of months for saying that. Do you want to get thrown off the site again?

And furthermore, that is a God Damned lie to say that about Wayne and certainly me. Nothing could be further from the truth with my opinion about Macdonald and I've said so on here constantly. It's a lie, you know it's a lie and you should also know that the man who tells lies on here when he knows perfectly well he is lying----is called a LIAR----and that is you Tom MacWood and you just proved it again today with that remark quoted above. 
 
 

Why are you so pissed? I don't get it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat:

Actually Bob Labbance said quite a bit more than that about Travis and his role and time and what he did at Ekwanok in the fall of 1899 and even who he did it for and why.

TEPaul,

What did Labbance say about Travis, his role, time and what he did at Ekwanok in the fall of 1899 and who he did it for and why ?

Was it for George Orvis and/or H.C. Chatfield Taylor ?

Are we to believe that after the routing was layed out that Dunn returned to New York leaving Travis to do all the finish/feature work ?

Would you abandon a project shortly after the routing was complete and leave a novice apprentice to do all the shaping and finish/feature work ?

Sometimes historians write history as they'd like to see it.

Even CBM contradicted himself in his writings.

 

[Tom MacWood]

Pat
All the evidence I've seen points to JD Dunn designing Ekwanok.

[TEPaul]

Tom MacWood:

You don't GET IT?  

Why not! Did you even bother to read you wrote above that Wayne and I were urinating on CBM again? How many times have you said that on this website and after we have told you numerous times that's the furthest thing from the truth? Do you think that's funny in some way?

I realize you conveniently say you can't understand something when it disagrees with you or that it confuses you but now you're telling me you don't get it when you say once again that Wayne and I are urinating on CBM on this thread that you don't get it when that bothers me and Wayne Morrison off? What kind of person are you anyway? You really are nuts, aren't you? Isn't that the very remark you got thrown off this website for saying to Wayne over a year ago and you still don't get it? That's unbelievable. Some people who say they sometimes deal with you say they think you have something wrong with you---you know---like in the head. I think I'm getting to the point where I'm wondering if they may not have a pretty good point about that. I asked you to remove that remark from this website and I suggest you do just that.


"TEPaul,
What did Labbance say about Travis, his role, time and what he did at Ekwanok in the fall of 1899 and who he did it for and why?"

Pat:

You're interested in GCGC and its history, a club you belong to which prevalently contains Walter Travis and you've never read Bob Labbance's book about Travis---"The Old Man." That's pretty amazing too. Well, you kindly gave me both the GCGC history book many years ago and C.B. Macdonald's book "Scotlands Gift Golf" over seven years ago and I've read that one numerous times as well as the GCGC history book so allow me to get Bob Labbance's book on Travis for you and you can read all about what he said about Travis and Ekwanok for yourself.

But in the meantime you seem to be taking after MacWood and Moriarty----eg when something doesn't agree with some petty point you're arguing about on here you say you don't agree with it and IT must be wrong and not YOU. Apparently you're now trying to tell me even CBM is wrong about something to do with NGLA when you can't understand it or it doesn't agree with some petty argument you are having with someone on here. Pretty incredible really. Perhaps you should just try out-researching Bob Labbance. Have you ever done any research on your own Pat? If so I can't seem to remember what it is at the moment. Your deal on here seems to be the very same thing as MacWood and Moriarty on here---just to argue and argue and argue with anyone and everyone on here. That appears to be about the only reason you're on this website.

[TEPaul]

Pat:

At Ekwanok, Travis did the course not for HC Chatfield Taylor (who was an old friend of CBM's from back in Chicago in the good old days of geometric architecture) but for James Taylor, a member of Dyker Meadows, with JD Dunn. According to Labbance, Taylor bought the property in August and a crew of 42 was secured and after Dunn and Travis routed it around Labor Day, Dunn returned to New York while Travis spent a good part of September and October perfecting the routing, bunkering the course, working on the greens, hitting test shots and such while enjoying a mild fall in New England while staying at the Equinox Hotel.

Who was James Taylor or Dyker Meadows and Ekwanok? My sources tell me he was either the great uncle of a really great history teacher I had back in the early '60s while at St Mark's School in Massachussets by the name of H.C. Chatfield Taylor or the grandfather of Cary Simons' (the granddaughter of famous publisher Simon and Schuster & Co) former husband, guitar strumming crooner James Taylor.

[TEPaul]

"TEP
I'm surprised you and Wayne were not aware of the feud between Travis & Macdonald,"

Tom MacWood:

Are you? Well then just add that to the very long laundry list of things you're completely mistaken about---MY God, that list is getting long. Having spent about twenty years in golf administration, those portions of Macdonald's book have interested me greatly for many years and particularly since 2002 since I read those parts of "Scotland's Gift Golf" with great interested entitled "The Activities of the USGA." I doubt anyone on this website has even bothered to look at those chapters of his book including you because they have nothing to do with golf course architecture.

Consequently, I'm quite sure I have long been a whole lot more familiar with the issues between Travis and Macdonald than you have which included a few issues that have nothing to do with GCA such as the Schnectedy Putter issue that actually lasted for years and included Travis' dissatisfaction that Macdonald served on R&A Rules Committee while on the USGA Rules Committee which Travis considered to be fairly "UnAmerican"   , amateur status issues, which included Travis through the years etc. One of the seminal amateur status resolutions of the mid-teens which is massively complicated or I should say confusing, I firmly believe was actually written by C.B. Macdonald. These are all things about Macdonald I have no doubt at all, MacWood, you have no understanding of and less interest in, but I certainly have for years.

He was a truly complex man that Macdonald and that fascinates me about him. I've often wondered what golf would be like in America today if the USGA and American golf had followed his lead and his suggestions in some of those other areas and I am fairly convinced that since they did not, for numerous reasons that I also find fascinating, it lead to Macdonald's growing dissatisfaction with most things to do with golf in his later years including golf course architecture.

And then of course there appear from a few contemporaneous letters of the 1920s to have been another issue or two which the couple of legend promoting defenders of Macdonald on this website would find to be unspeakably rude to him and his memory if mentioned on this website so I won't mention them to those people who actually curiously call themselves interested and competent historians!

[DMoriarty]

I don't get it.  TEPaul has been bragging about Wayne pissing on CBM's grave for years, yet anyone else mentions it and it is grounds for expulsion from the website?   That would be a pitty, if true.  Of course now TEPaul claims it was all a joke, but only well after the fact.  Didn't sound like a joke to me then, and looking back on it it still doesn't.  In fact, I think I could even date the incident down to a few weeks.    I wonder who has seen the photograph?   Thankfully not me.

But whether joke or not, the point remains the same.   For those who haven't been around long, consider this sampling from TEPaul when he tells us that he and Wayne have no hostility toward CBM.  The bolds are mine, but the words are TEPaul's . . .

. . .
So big damn deal if Wayne doesn't really like the look of the National School architecture. He's not the first one and he won't be the last. He does like how that architecture plays he just thinks it doesn't have very natural lines and he really likes natural lines in architecture!. . . But I do admit that Wayne does have a sort of interesting way of expressing his opinions sometimes. I mean we were over at Shinnecock one time and then we went next door to Southampton GC and hung out for a few hours with Gene Greco.

. . . Macdonald and Raynor and Whigam are actually all buried in the same cemetary near one another very close to Southampton G.C. on Rte #27.

So we all decided to go over there and pay tribute to these great men. We were amongst their graves staring down at them solemnly and very respectfully, and, THEN, to our collective horror Wayne started pissing on C.B. and then one of the other's grave was close enough that he pissed on him too. I forget which one was about thirty yards away and Wayne just didn't have enough left to get that far to piss on him too and I don't think he wanted to walk that far and risk pissing on his own trousers either. We actually have some photographs of this entire momentary horror! . . .

You know, if it works well for a club and course just use the front section as greenspace. Does someone think either Macdonald or Raynor will turn over in their graves because of it? Don't worry about that--both Macdonald and Raynor have had enough excercise turning over in their graves recently  just trying to get out of the way of Wayne Morrison pissing on them.

I don't know what to say about Wayno's pissing being responsible for that reincarnation.

When he pissed on the graves of Macdonald and Raynor in that Southampton cemetary there were audible gasps from the rest of us that could probably be heard for a hundred yards.

I've seen him piss on a lot of golf courses and it's never any different than when other people piss on golf courses. But I've seen him piss on Macdonald and Raynor golf courses and you can tell it's with a far more dedicated purpose than to just relieve himself like on other courses of other architects. When he pisses on Macd/Raynor courses the grass immediately curls up and dies and the ground turns black and cracks into ugly looking fissures.

Wayno;

Do you believe that new picture on the front page of GOLFCLUBALTAS.com???

I think Ranster Morrissett has gone off the deep end and this site has degenerated into an engineering aesthetic mindset and lovefest. That's about the most flagrant example of the worst of Macdonald/Raynor architecture imaginable.

That green looks like a big green custard on a plate of milk. It doesn't do a damn thing for me except make me hungry.

I think you should piss on that green at Sleepy Hollow, on Macdonald and Raynor's grave again and on that photo on the front page of GOLFCLUBATLAS.com, if possible, and I'm driving this time to make that happen.

I think we should leave this website as a protest against the look of artificiality in architecture that uses a desert tray as a template and go somewhere else to ply our campaign for the look of far greater naturalism in architecture.

"I have visions of the Philly contingent hanging the effigies of Macdonald, Whigham and Colt from the Boardwalk, stoning them with Finegan's latest tome before lighting them ablaze, urinating on them, all while singing 'Philadelphia Freedom'."

Listen here, MacWoodenhead, you hallucinating putz, we true-blue ultra manly Philadelphians would never think of singing "Philadelphia Freedom"!! It was written and recorded by a 4' 11" British homosexual who dresses like a Christmas tree. Plus his definition of "Freedom" ain't the same as our definition of Freedom. As for urinating on those New York National School architects, Wayne already did that last month on their graves in Southampton.

But great shot of MikeY: With friends like you will he ever need enemies? That stunning photo of yours is sure to go down in golf architecture history. If you or MikeY want to donate it to the USGA's new architecture archive I'm sure a pretty fancy-smancy value can be put on it and pass IRS muster too.  

That photo of MikeY does look a whole lot like the photo of Wayno pissing on Macdonald's grave, I must say.

Come on GeneG, post the photo. If anyone gets pissed, all it means is their sense of humor sucks!

I don't know, I think there has to be a lot more explained about how Macdonald and Raynor worked together in those early years and how Raynor worked apart from Macdonald in the second half of his careerr that ended in 1926.

We went to their graves last weekend in Southampton with the help of Gene Greco. There in a space about 30 yards by 20 yards are buried Raynor, Macdonald and Whigam.

Nowhere in the world can you find three architectural minds that close together in death. The question remains, in my mind, though, exactly how they worked together when they were alive.

It was a pretty poignant moment standing there in that graveyard with those three guys that close. We probably would've lingered a while longer but Wayne tried to piss on Macdonald's grave and we had to leave.

[Tom MacWood]

TEP
Lecturing Pat on research? That's pretty funny.

Pat
I've done quite a bit of research on Ekwanok, and all the information points to Dunn laying out the course with a number of amateurs and pros giving their two cents. Among the likely candidates: JL Taylor, CBM, Travis, WH Davis and George Low. Low was the pro at Dyker Meadow and future pro at Ekwanok. Travis began tinkering with course around 1902. Here are some articles from the club's formative years (in chronological order).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat:

At Ekwanok, Travis did the course not for HC Chatfield Taylor (who was an old friend of CBM's from back in Chicago in the good old days of geometric architecture) but for James Taylor, a member of Dyker Meadows, with JD Dunn. According to Labbance, Taylor bought the property in August and a crew of 42 was secured and after Dunn and Travis routed it around Labor Day, Dunn returned to New York while Travis spent a good part of September and October perfecting the routing, bunkering the course, working on the greens, hitting test shots and such while enjoying a mild fall in New England while staying at the Equinox Hotel.

Who was James Taylor or Dyker Meadows and Ekwanok? My sources tell me he was either the great uncle of a really great history teacher I had back in the early '60s while at St Mark's School in Massachussets by the name of H.C. Chatfield Taylor or the grandfather of Cary Simons' (the granddaughter of famous publisher Simon and Schuster & Co) former husband, guitar strumming crooner James Taylor.

TEPaul,

If Travis designed Ekwanok, why didn't he list it in his 1921 publication of courses that he designed ?

Especially if it was his first course and a good course ?

Why would Travis not credit himself ?

And, if Travis didn't credit himself, how do you come to credit him ?