Starting today, Mon. 10/12: Get to know Rich Goodale

[Melvyn Morrow]

Rich who?

Not another asylum seeker gone on the run in Scotland, How many years has he been free to roam and corrupt the true game of Golf.  So much for the immigration policies of successful governments.

Trying to get an expulsion order on him now to send him back to the scorched golf courses he deserves.

Melvyn

[Doug Sobieski]

Rich:

What was the highest level at which you played tennis?

Do you still keep your game sharp, or did you abandon the sport once you achieved national/worldwide recognition?

Doug

[Lou_Duran]

Rich,

Say you've been hired to to manage the development of a golf course and given a budget of $5 Million, turnkey (including buildings, parking, and FF&E), plus (extra) the cost of the land, P&Z, and permitting (all of which are reasonably attainable).  Questions:

Taking into consideration market conditions and future economics, where would you build it?
Private or daily fee?
Design it yourself or hire a gca?
If the latter, who or what type?
Would you hire a contractor or develop it yourself?
What would be your target market?
What would be the important characteristics of the course?  Length, breadth, scale, major design features?
Would being a low-cost producer be a significant consideration in the design and ongoing maintenance requirements?
If so, what features give you the best bang for the buck?  What do your customers really want and be willing to pay for?

If the budget of $5 Million plus the cost of the land is too restricting, expand it as needed subject to the project remaining economically viable.
 

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I second the question on what has happened to Scottish sports.
It appears that there is a sudden void of Scots coming through the ranks of all the usual suspects...that being football, rugby, middle distance running and of course golf.
Anything in your opinion that has happened in Scotland over the past twenty yeras to account for this?

[Rich Goodale]

Doug

The highest level tournament I ever played in was the National Juniors, but I lost in the first round to a guy named Frank Conner, who after a brief pro tennis career became a pretty good pro golfer.  I would guess that at my peak (probably when I was 19 or 20) I played off the equivalent of +2, probably in the top 10-20,000 players in the US.  My only national fame was being a Face in the Crowd in Sports Illustrated, but that was due primarily to the fact that the HS team I captained won its 100th match in a row on my watch.  I pretty much gave up the game at age 25, but picked it up again after I moved to Scotland.  I got to the semis of my local club championship at age 47 but got beat love and love by a guy who had once reached the junior doubles finals at Wimbledon.  That pretty much ended my competitive career!

Lou

I would probably pocket the $5 million and slip away to Rio, but if I could't do that....

1.  Someplace with sandy soil and within 30 miles of a small-medium sized city (250,000 or so) with a regional airport.
2.  Daily fee, but with some sort of annual "membership" fee for core players
3.  GCA
4.  As local as possible (so he/she can help with future tweaking).  Also somebody tolerant enough to listen to me from time to time.
5.  Contractor
6.  Locals (within 10 miles of the club), semi-serious golfers in he metro area
7.  Random land movement, particularly in and around the green, , limited bunkering (25-30), relatively narow fairways but surrounded by playable wispy rough/waste areas, 6500-6800 yards from the tips, but with some Tiger tees open only for tournaments/exhibitions, etc., minimal water hazards, tees and greens as close together as legally possible.  Small as possible clubhouse with limited grill menu.
8.  Less so for design per se, more so for LT maintenance requirements designed in by the architect
9.  Something "different" and "better" than the competition.  Easy to walk (or ride--gotta get that cart revenue Melvyn and Dan!).  Above average maintenance, and normally firm and fast.  Hard to lose golf balls.  Low slope.  A "Test" for the good players, but manageable by the rabbits.  Enough quirk to be distinctive to all classes of customers, i.e. one or two "signature" holes.

To which address do I send my invoice?

Rich

[Niall C]

I second the question on what has happened to Scottish sports.
It appears that there is a sudden void of Scots coming through the ranks of all the usual suspects...that being football, rugby, middle distance running and of course golf.
Anything in your opinion that has happened in Scotland over the past twenty yeras to account for this?

Mike

I hope you're not referring to Rich moving to Scotland ?
 
Niall

[Niall C]

Rich

1 - You've now had 20 odd years to get round this small country so you undoubtedly will have extensive experience of playing various courses. What "hidden gems" would you recommend to GCA's who maybe don't live over here and therefore won't have heard of.

2 - name your favourite AND best course in the following;

Ayrshire

East Lothian

Fife

Tayside

3 - best AND favourite inland course in Scotland

4 - if you were stuck on a desert island, which just happened to consist purely of links land, and you were only allowed one golf club out your bag, which one would you choose and why ?

5 - if you had the choice to play Dornoch every day for the rest of your life or sleep with a different supermodel every night for a year, which would you choose ? (imagine that your wife doesn't check your emails and websites visited)

Niall

[Adam Clayman]

2.  Nobody that I know of has ever called me "The Brain" but feel free to if you wish.  I prefer it to "Rihc."

3.  Removing gorse from Dornoch is like removing iceplant from the 1st 5 holes at Spyglass or the Ocean from 15-17 at Cypress Point.  You could fill in that troublesome gap between the tee and green on 16 Cypress with dirt, and nobody would ever lose their ball on that hole again, but would that be desireable?   Not me.  I personally do not like the dumbing down of great golf courses for the sake of money, which is what has happened at Dornoch, and elsewhere.  That is just one of my standards.

Perhaps not the proper place to call BULLSHIE....but...I remember The Mad Armenian referring to you as the Brain, often, back in the olden days of gca.com.

I do not see how you make the leap that removing the gorse, increasing the ability to recover, translates to money for the club. Unless you are willing to concede that NOT looking for one's ball all day is a more fun way to golf.
 As for the Iceplant at Spy, I wouldn't be surprised to learn it's been eradicated. Without it, the architecture would not changed one iota. The results of scoring may. I say may, because there was a way to extricate, similar to an explosion sand shot, without too much penalty. As for 16th at CPC, The ocean on the line of instinct is a bit of extreme example, since most gorse, (I assume) is either right or left of the desired line.  Interesting factoid on CPC, a proper drop for going long left at CPC is somewhere in Hawaii.

 As for your standard, I'm on the other side of the fence. Errant shots are penalty enough, and can yield the focus needed to recover in a match. Opposed to likely conceding the hole, or hoping your opponent screws up so badly that your double could either halve or win the hole. In Stroke play, your side of the fence just plains sucks.  

[George Pazin]

Perhaps not the proper place to call BULLSHIE....but...I remember The Mad Armenian referring to you as the Brain, often, back in the olden days of gca.com.

It's a fine place to call that, I remember it as well. I'm sure Rich remembers, but is being modest.

Just out of curiosity, Rich, do you have any evidence to support your contention that the gorse makes the course harder? Were scores much lower in the Shield after the removal?

I believe Geoff S, among others, has often contended that some hazards promote more conservative play and thus indirectly contribute to narrower scoring ranges and lower overall scores. When you remove them, the surprising result is a wider scoring spectrum and higher overall scores.

[Adam Clayman]

Great question and hopefully, point. Jorge.

Others can take credit for stuff, I know I deserve, but, I will stand up and proudly claim be the first poor typer who would always typo Rich for rihc. All it took was for Rich to point it out once, and it stuck.  Strategy is another one that flies off my fingers as startegy. (flying of course, is a joke)

[RJ_Daley]

I also remember Gib as the nominator or the moniker, "the brain".  I also seem to remember the typo Rihc appearing and being pimped by the 'always in editor mode', Dan K., and it taking off from there.

Speaking of editoring; when did you start spelling organization, organisation? 

What is the best example of a palimpsest of a golf design in the ground you have played and noticed?

What is your NHS#, and can you use it here?

[Rick Shefchik]

Rich,

What are some ways you've found to supplement your income through writing, excluding the books? (D-list novelists might find your answer useful...)

[Rich Goodale]

Sorry Adam, George and RJ

My good friend Gib has called me many things, but never "The Brain."  You could always ask him if you don't trust me.

Cheers for now, as family business arises.  Will be back later.

Rich

[Dan Kelly]

I also remember Gib as the nominator or the moniker, "the brain".  I also seem to remember the typo Rihc appearing and being pimped by the 'always in editor mode', Dan K., and it taking off from there.

"Pimped"? I presume you must mean Dan King! (Emoticons omitted.)

Trust me on this, Dick -- If I were "always in editor mode," this site would have stripped me of whatever sanity I've managed to retain!

------------

Rich --

Who are the 3* golf writers (if any)?

What would you write (re: golf, or otherwise) if you were free enough, and talented enough (I'm not saying you're not!), to write whatever you might write?

Dna

[Dan Boerger]

Scotland are world champs ... how soon you guys forget ...

http://www.seasonofchampions.ca/2009worlds/

[George Pazin]

Sorry Adam, George and RJ

My good friend Gib has called me many things, but never "The Brain."  You could always ask him if you don't trust me.

Why ask him when the search feature works so well?

A combination of the recent postings of the Evil Leprechaun and Brains Goodale struck a chord that has bothered me since Pacific Dunes opened.

Just one of many, I'm sure.

[Bill_McBride]

What is your favorite hole at Stanford?

What do you think of the 12th hole and a chain saw?

What do you think of the new holes (3 and 4 I think)?

Did you ever hit a ball onto Sand Hill Road?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Rich is one of the best to ever be on here. His mind is 2nd to none and enjoyment of the majority of the subject matter on par with our best. He is a great man who fotunatley lost to me in the Buda. lol

[Sean_A]

Sean

1.  I wanted to have a proper summer holiday, so I quit my last real job and moved to Dornoch for the summer of 1981 (mid-April--->Mid August.  When I came back I stated working for myself and have been doing so ever since.

2.  I came back (see above).  As to why I eventually moved over here in 1990, cherchez la femme.....

3. and 4.  My 3*** courses are the one's I've played out of what I assume to be the distinctively best courses in the world which are worth the trip itself, and my 2** are those which are nearly as good a worth a detour, but lack a certain something or contain some moderate flaw.  My 1* are those which are worth a second visit if you are in the area.  I assume that there are about 30-35 3*** courses in the world and about 100-150 2** and 500+ 1*.  I'm not naming names now as I haven't looked at my list in many years, and have played a number of definitely and possibly starred courses this year.  I'll probably get to it later in the year as I'm due someone an article on course rating and ranking by then.  Overall, I've played 15-20 of the potential 3***, maybe 30 of the potential 2** and another 50 potential 1*.

Bill

1.  With the gorse they way it used to be, the course was too difficult for many casual visitors.  Easier course = more green fees.  It might also be possible to have lower maintenance costs if the gorse is permanently cleared out.  I should be honest, that the party line is that this is just a periodic cutting back of the gorse, with it being allowed to move back in gradually, but I'll beleive that when I see it.

2.  Never, as I hardly spent any time there even when it was up and running.  It would be a great deal for you, however.  Go for it!

3.  I have to support BUDA as I invented it!

Rich

Rich

I was hoping you would at least give us a flavour of what these 3 and 2 * courses are.  Tell us the ones that may be a bit of a surprise. 

Cioa

[Rich Goodale]

Michael W-P

IMVHO, Scotland's football (and rugby) teams are vicitims of the globalisation of sport.  In the former case, they could compete (and often compete well) because the sport was very parochial and inward looking, and smaller nations could develop their own talent and thei rown style without fear of their best players and best ideas being stolen by other nations.  Now, however, the is a free market in football players and ideas (as represented by coaches) and these go where the money is, which is definitely not Scotland.  While the two big teams, Celtic and Rangers, have a global presence, they are severly limited in which players they can afford to sign because they get virtually nothing from television rights compared to the English and major European clubs.  There are a lot of talented Scottish coaches (probably becuase they know how to squeeze talent out of people), but most if not all of them are coaching in England.  As for rugby, In Scotland it is and always has been, a sport for toffs, even more so than in England, which has benefitted also by having Rugby League to bring working class players into the game.  Finally, Scots are wee people, physically, whereas both Football and rugby are becoming the province of behemoths.  I must also say that compared to what I know about the US, the facilities and level and intensity of training, particularly at the youth level is not world class for most sports.  The bar has been raised and the Scots haven't raised their game to meet it, in most sports.  It is not a coincidence that Scotland's currently most famous athlete, Andy Murray, opted out of the local system and spent the time and money to raise his game to championship level in Spain, where he could hit daily against Rafael Nadal, et. al. rather than just his brother and mother.

Golf, however, is showing some signs of improvemnt, to a large degree through sending most of its best prospects to University in the USA.  They won the world amateur 3-man team championship (Eisenhower Trophy) last year, and have a couple of very good young prospects coming along, particularly David Law and Jamie Byrne.  The standard at the high level amateur competitions here has risen dramatically in the past couple of years.  I see hope there.

Niall

1.  Just about any course in Scotland is a "gem" for some reason or other.  I could list those that I have uncovered, but they wouldn't be hidden anymore, would they?  Nor would they necessarily meet everybody's idea of what is a "gem."  A great part of the joy of "hidden gems" is actually finding them by yourself, so I will demur.

2.  FAVORITE; BEST

Ayrshire--Western Gailes; Turnberry
East Lothian--Kilspindie; Muirfield
Fife--Eden; Kingsbarns
Tayside--Carnoustie; Carnoustie

3.  Inland--Gleneagles (Kings); Loch Lomond

4.  6 iron, because it is the most versatile for the shots you would get on linksland

5.  Actually, either of those choices deserves its special place in Dante's circles of hell, so I'll demur again.

[Rich Goodale]

More replies, and just remember that if I am not responding to anyone's post it is only because the writer has not asked me a question (and that includes you, Tiger!).

George

There is not enough hard data (ie.e comparable scores) to tell how different Dornoch is playing in 2009 than in previous years.  I base my statement that the course is "easier" on my own observations and the opinions of others who known Dornoch well.  The gorse removal also makes you think less and reduces strategic options on several holes.  It also diminishes the beauty of the course.  One good thiing is that I think they may have uncovered the original site of Old Tom Morris' tee for what is now the 14th (Foxy).

I am keeping my mind open, however, and look forward to seeing what the place looks like and plays like next May, when the gorse (or what's remaining of it) will be in full bloom.

RJ

1.  I've pretty much switched over to the Limey way of spelling things (e.g. "-ise" for "-ize") just for convenience, as most of my correspondence is with people over here.

2.  As to courses which are palimpsests (i.e. ground over which different courses have been designed), the only one I know well enough to be able to visualise the old holes beneath the new ones is Dornoch, and it is a pretty good example.  I'd guess that Muirfield and Royal County Down would be other good examples.

3.  As for the NHS, I'm not covered outside the UK (except for EU countries, which have a reciprocal kind of deal).  As for travel to countries with third-world health care systems I, like most people living here, purchase insurance annually for a nominal fee (no more than $200/year for a family of four) which covers us for any medical care outsdie the EU, up to and including being flown back to the UK in a medically equipped and staffed private jet for serious injuries or conditions (I am not making this up!).

Rick

I was thinking of finishing my own D-list novel and selling the rights to Hollywood for $$$millions.  Am I being overly ambitious?  Otherwise, having a pension and a working wife helps.

Dan K

1.  Darwin is the only golf writer that passes the Mucci test (i.e. once you finish one of his articles you want to go back and read it again).  The only other golf writers I can think of who I actually do happily re-read are Longhurst, Wodehouse, Cooke, Murphy and Haultain.  I don't know of any contemporary golf writer who comes close to these, but I really haven't read much here either.  None of these (including Darwin) is anywhere near 3*** when it comes to the world of letters.  Bernie might make 1* in my universe.

2.  I would like to write something that would be read and that more than just a few people would gladly pay for.

George

You could have asked Gib because he would be almost sure to send you an intgeresting reply.  Using the search engine is so 21st century......

Bill

1.  My favorite hole at Stanford is 13th.  I like the old fashioned cross bunker (which was still very much in play in the 1960's), the narrowing of the fairway in the driving zone, and the slight elevation of the green which makes it a visually pleasing as well as a challenging 2nd shot.

2.  I like the 12th the way it is, although I haven't played down the right off the tee there for 20+ years (poor execution rather than choice).  If that (great) route leads to a tree-clogged 2nd shot I'd vote for the chain saw.

3.  Nothing will ever assuage the disappointment I feel that the old 4th (60s-70s version) is no more.  When I get to that corner now it's like getting to the Donald Steel holes on he Eden at St. Andrews--no matter how good or bad the holes are I just play them numbly until I finally get back to the real golf course.

4.  Many times, as I was playing with my Uncle's old hickory woods in the 60's.

Sean

Most of my iconoclastic opinions on the "greats" have been posted here before, and as I said above, they are all tentative and very much subject to change on repeat play, but here's today's (14 October 2009) list of possible anomalies if you've not read all my 10,000+ posts carefully.....

My 3*** others rate lower--Castle Stuart; Kingston Heath
My 2**   others rate lower--Applebrook; Littlestone; Winchester
My 2**  others rate higher--NGLA; Old Course; Pacific Dunes; Pinehurst #2; Portmarnock; Royal Melbourne (West)
My 1*    others rate higher--Cruden Bay; Nairn; North Berwick; Rye; Swinley Forest

PS--if your next question is going to be "Why?" my answers will probably be, "Because, to me, they fit better in that group than any other") in most if not all cases.

Thanks all for your questions and thoughts

Rich

[Bill_McBride]

Re: your response on favorite hole at Stanford (a fine course which I have unfortunately only played once):

"My favorite hole at Stanford is 13th.  I like the old fashioned cross bunker (which was still very much in play in the 1960's), the narrowing of the fairway in the driving zone, and the slight elevation of the green which makes it a visually pleasing as well as a challenging 2nd shot."

I hadn't played NGLA at the time I played Stanford so no thoughts at the time, but doesn't this description of the 13th at Stanford sound a lot like #8 the Bottle Hole at NGLA?

Great holes both.

[Lou_Duran]

Rich,

Your invoice should be sent to any of the 130 billionaires in China.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/business/global/14rich.html

What do you think of golf in the Olympics in terms of fueling a new renaissance in new course construction?  I've heard predictions of 1,000 new courses in China alone.

Might the growth of golf in Asia also have a significant impact on tourism to the UK and, eventually, result in another round of green fee increases at the trophy courses?  With the dollar possibly heading the way of the peso and Yanks staying closer to home, the new visitor to TOC will likely have a different face.  I can just see the caddies trying to communicate with their new clients and scurrying them around the course in under four hours.  Might this potential change also prompt some new menu items at Royal Dornoch?   

[Rich Goodale]

Bill

I remember the 2nd shot at #8 NGLA to be somewhat blind, but that could just be from where I hit my tee shot, pull left.  Somebody with a better understanding of NGLA should answer this one.

Lou

Thanks for the lead, which confirms my predictions of many years ago.  Vis a vis your questions:

1.  No, I do not see the Olympics as fuelling any kind of renaissance in golf construction, at least relative to the huge structural stimulus provided by the continuing growth of the economies in China, India and eastern Europe.  Maybe a renaissance in Brazil/South America, but that's starting from ground zero.

2.  You already see large numbers of chinese people in Edinburgh, but I think it will take time before they hae a significant impact on golf tourism over here.  Maybe when the sons and daughters (if there are any, One Child policy and aw tha') of those 130 billionsaires get to be soft enough and affluent enough to spend the time.  Maybe 2020+?  Vis a vis prices, the courses will always price to the most profligate visitors.  Now it's Americans.  Will the Chinese be just as fat and happy then as we are now?

3.  There already is a chinese takeaway in Dornoch and it is pretty good.  If they can keep the current (excelllent) chef I'm sure he'll adapt.  The club already serves the best hamburgers and best eggs benedict in Scotland, if not the whole UK.

Rich

PS--As for the caddies, most English speakers do not understand them, so the chinese will be in good company.

rfg

3. 

[Bill_McBride]

Bill

I remember the 2nd shot at #8 NGLA to be somewhat blind, but that could just be from where I hit my tee shot, pull left.  Somebody with a better understanding of NGLA should answer this one.

I suspect the second shot at NGLA is more uphill.  All I remember seeing was the top 1/3 of the flagstick.