[Peter Pallotta]

Just a thought, based on the reference in JP Newport's article this weekend to over 70 golf courses now having been built in the US atop former landfill sites, including Bayonne and Liberty National. 

I had opined once on here that the use of landfill sites was a good (and potentially great) development for golf course architecture, and one that has historical precedence, i.e. the thrifty old Scots a couple of hundred years ago didn't choose linksland because it was great for golf, they chose it because it wasn't much good for anything else, and certainly not for anything of importance, like growing food for example. Likewise, landfill sites aren't good for much of anything (except to build parks/greenspace on, though JPN suggests such parks might cost more to maintain than municipal golf courses).

I would guess that not many architects relish the idea of spending their days working on a former landfill site, especially flat featureless sites. And I would guess that many here might decry the tendency of those architects who do work on such sites to manufacture out of whole (and with tons of imported dirt) a rolling and rumpled and mounded and fescued homage to old style links courses.

But I think that is exactly why those who work in the industry and those who care about golf should jump on this bandwagon, i.e. so as to have a hand in determining/shaping how landfill golf/golf architecture will evolve in the coming years and decades.  It's a relatively new field, this exploration of how to get the most, architecturally-speaking, out of landfill sites. And again I'm reminded of an historical precedence, i.e. the years of discussion and change that occurred during golf's migration from the original linksland to the first inland sites in the UK.  It took a while to figure out, but the great architects of the day did just that.

Who knows what's really possible for landfill golf? I think we can be sure that if we look down our noses at it, the variety of potential courses will not be as wide and interesting as it might otherwise be. But again, who knows? This is maybe a silly example, but we've often discussed if The Old Course (or an Old Course-type course) could ever be built today; well, it seems to me that the 'topography' of a landfill site in its 'natural' state might be exactly what a golf course architect could use as the base/basis for that homage...if he/she/the client has the courage, and if our thoughts about landfill golf continue to develop.

Peter

[John Foley]

Peter,

The course at Santa Clara Golf & Tennis was built atop a landfill and it's been around for 20+ years. Not sure if it was the first but when I first played there I thought it was a very cool idea.

[TEPaul]

Peter:

Really excellent first post!

The ironies are actually quite amazing when one considers that the NATURAL linksland sites that offered so much for golf (naturally) really were areas that had little to no use for anything else (as clearly landfills today don't! ) and how golf was and can be adapted to both.

In some ways an interesting link in this subject or discussion might be the natural site of the great Lido in Long Island. It was a natural site (much of it was under water) but it did require complete manufacturing (dredging and filling) to build a golf course on it, and as such offered Macdonald what he considered to be a blank canvas from which he could create whatever he wanted to create with virtually nothing in the way of NATURAL limitations as even the natural linksland sites had (one could not or did not regrade the dunes and swards for instance; one only figured out how to best use them for golf holes).

It probably ultimately goes to that old architectural adage of hiding the hand of man by simply using "as is" what is naturally there for golf versus creating something on a massive scale that no one could tell WAS CREATED because it truly looks like Nature created it rather than the hand of man.

Frankly, in my book, both can be considered the two sides of the coin of the idea of "minmalism" (one that is natural and the other that is wholly manufactured but really doesn't look like it).

[Adrian_Stiff]

I started using landfill sites for golf in 1984 and have continued ever since, it is perfect recycling. The use of a waste material back into a useable product and the golf course at no cost. Also after a short period the wildlife live and breed and make what was the landfill site their new home. Priceless.

[Tom_Doak]

Peter:

You guess correctly, that it is not as exciting to go to work on a landfill site every day as it is to work on a beautiful piece of ground.

The other complication is that a landfill site offers no scope for making cuts into the ground.  Every feature has to be built out of fill.  And personally, I have always been better at earthmoving when I am whittling away at something which is there until I get it right, instead of creating it by building up.

[TEPaul]

Adrian and Peter:

We should not forget that Nature's gift to golf of the original natural linksland sites was not just their location and natural topography and well draining sandy soil structure (narrow corridors between the sea and dunes and inland farmland) but that the alluvial deposits from the contiguous rivers created an acidity within those narrow natural corridors that only two types of grasses could naturally survive in----eg festuca (fescue) and agrostis (bent) that just happened to be two types of grass that were perfect for the playing of golf! And more amazing still was that man did not even have to plant those two types of grass on those natural narrow linksland corridors----Nature and the birds did that for us!

These were the very things that the INLAND sites where golf first emigrated to when it first left the linksland sites did not have at all!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Peter,

I recall in my Killian and Nugent days, that they had a project where they routed and provided a grading plan for dumping garbage in a landfill that wouldn't be a golf course for another 25 years or so.  It was in Glenview and might have turned out to be the Glen Club or the 9 holer, I really don't know.

There are some technical problems besides not cutting, namely methane gas removal, requiring air vents, and unstable soils, which lead to constant breaking of irrigation lines, if not handled correctly.

[TEPaul]

"The other complication is that a landfill site offers no scope for making cuts into the ground.  Every feature has to be built out of fill.  And personally, I have always been better at earthmoving when I am whittling away at something which is there until I get it right, instead of creating it by building up."


TomD:

If you really feel that way I think I may have a win/win solution for you!

You can start by taking some photographs of some beautiful natural site somewhere in the world (you can even have a topographical contour map done of it). Then bring the D8s and such in to the landfill and tell the operaters to exactly recreate that entire natural land formation of that beautiful natural site across the entire landfill. After that is done, then just go to work figuring out how to create a great golf course out of that exact natural replication on the landfill.

In this way you can virtually play GOD or Mother Nature FIRST and after that you can play the part of the imaginative golf architect (even the  minimalist golf architect) that you are!!

[Jaeger Kovich]

Shape the course twice! What a great idea! Why dont we transplant Sand Hills and Dornoch to every landfill so we don't have to travel to these remote places!... I'm going to play my first landfill golf course tomorrow, and I am very excited to see the possibilities and perhaps the future of golf in the US.

[Jud_T]

Jeff I believ the 9-holer you are referring to is Willow Hill:

http://www.willowhillgolfcourse.com/sites/courses/layout9.asp?id=796&page=44566

[cary lichtenstein]

This has the makings of a very interesting post, at least so far until someone hijacks it for a fight

[Steve_ Shaffer]

See the Feature Interview with Roy Case who has done a few "brownfield" courses including Park Ridge GC in Lake Worth, FL. I highly recommend this course for anyone visiting the east coast of South Florida. It's just fun to play.

http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/interviewcase

[Norbert P]

  Here's a link to FAQs about brownfields.

   http://www.brownfieldgolf.com/faq.htm

[Jerry Kluger]

I have played Park Ridge in FL and the landfill allows for elevation changes which are not normally available in south Florida making for a very enjoyable course. 

60 Minutes did a piece yesterday on coal ash landfills and it was very scary stuff - I must say that 60 Minutes does tend to be over the top with their stories but it was something to be aware of.  They showed a golf course that was built on top of a coal ash landfill and was not properly sealed whereby the ash was seeping to the top.  If it is as hazardous as they claim then the situation has to be corrected or the course will have to be closed. 

[Niall C]

If you read some of the early accounts of golf you will see that links were used extensively for a variety things from washing and drying clothes, hanging fishing nets, keeping of livestock to being a general recreation area where all sorts of sports were played including golf. What they weren't used for was planting crops because of the poor fertility of the soil.

Its just our good fortune that amongst the different things the links was used for golf seemed to win out.

I find it interesting that with quite a few of the early inland sites they had quarries on the land which suggests that they were maybe taking advantage of gravel/sand seams nearby.

I have a friend who's in the quarrying/landfill business and he does beautifully. He digs a big hole to extract the sand/gravel and makes his money that way, he then fills the hole using it as a landfill site making even more money and then when its full he caps it off and taps into the methane being given off to sell for electricity generation. I'm sure if he had a site big enough he would also put a golf course on top of it but theres not that many sites that I know of that are big enough over here. Perhaps you do things to a different scale elsewhere.

Niall  

[Adrian_Stiff]

"The other complication is that a landfill site offers no scope for making cuts into the ground.  Every feature has to be built out of fill.  And personally, I have always been better at earthmoving when I am whittling away at something which is there until I get it right, instead of creating it by building up."


TomD:

If you really feel that way I think I may have a win/win solution for you!

You can start by taking some photographs of some beautiful natural site somewhere in the world (you can even have a topographical contour map done of it). Then bring the D8s and such in to the landfill and tell the operaters to exactly recreate that entire natural land formation of that beautiful natural site across the entire landfill. After that is done, then just go to work figuring out how to create a great golf course out of that exact natural replication on the landfill.

In this way you can virtually play GOD or Mother Nature FIRST and after that you can play the part of the imaginative golf architect (even the  minimalist golf architect) that you are!!

Tep - Its interesting with topo maps now that on a flat site, using inert landfill (others used soil from digs) you could recreate a St Andrews or indeep effecitvely copy paste features you like. Its possible to recreate down to 50mm.
TomD - In the main you are right although with rough landfilling to start with, you can plough your bulldozer man in and create features by cutting and filling bits. We certainly do a lot of cutting in the final shaping to get the water out mainly. As long as your working with inert fill I am sure you could create interesting features that looked natural and fitted as well as some of them at Bandon. What you dont have is the backdrop ofcourse or the better soils, although if the landfill operation generated enough revenue, maybe even rootzoning the lot could be done.

[TEPaul]

Adrian:

What exactly are you talking about when you mentioned the material of a landfill is or may be inert?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Tep - Inert landfill in the UK means soil, rock or rubble. If you get a houising or road operation there are the cuts or foundation digs so as the buildings can sit on level plinths. That material needs to be removed in that project and needs a new home. Landfilling operations where paper, waste or even toxic materials are best to avoid.

[Tony_Muldoon]

RT Jones (only?) English effort is on a land fill.  I've said it before it's a fun course with nice elevation changes and one of the best 'modern' courses I've played.

http://www.stockleyparkgolf.com/showpage.asp?p=200


Apparently the whole area was a massive dump about five miles North of Heathrow.  An imaginative developer then constructed a huge office park, the golf course and a public park.


http://www.stockleyparkgolf.com/showpage.asp?p=183


http://www.stockleypark.co.uk/ThePark.html

[Tim Gerrish]

Niall,

THe same is true over here.  There are very few landfills large enough to route an 18 hole golf course.  The large ones are located near NY or other similar cities.  We've studied umpteen landfills for golf courses in this area.  They all were 9 hole par 3's or executive length courses.  Of course, some would say that this is exactly he type of facility we should be building.

The largest project around here is just outside Boston, called Granite Links.  It was built using a old quarry and landfill for an incredible sum of money and could have only been accomplished due to the simultaneous development of Boston's famous "Big Dig" (tunneling of a highway through town) and the fill material.  They built a highway exit ramp just for the project.  Some would say this is exactly the type of facility we don't really need.

While researching my master's thesis on landfill golf courses i visited many course in the US.  Santa Clara, Harborside, etc.  The first landfill course in these parts was in LA and it holds two courses, Dominguez golf center (1951) and Victoria (across the highway if I remember correctly)  opened in 1961.  Even though they just completed a renovation a few years ago, they are having lots of landfill issues.  Basically the landfill was unsuccessfully capped.  I built a 9 hole municipal course in Natick, MA on a landfill called Sassamon Trace.  Only four holes are on the landfill and they are tight.

We've come a long way with engineering closure of landfills in the past 40 years.  There have been no issues in Natick regarding settling, methane, etc.

Want is missing out of this discussion is the permitting involved with landfills.  Opening up landfills and shaping refuse is not looked upon highly.  Permitting new landfills is nearly impossible in the northeast (that is why the trash coming out of NY goes on barges and rail to other parts of the country.  Space in current landfills is at such a premium that operates have no other options than to create the typical "piggy back" landforms.  In RI the STATES' landfill is huge, but will also be close to the highest point in the state once closed. 

There are very few inert landfills here, because we recycle concrete, asphalt, iron, etc.  Harborside was built on a construction debris landfill.  I think a portion of Granite Links was on construction debris.  We also tend to keep soil in place unless it is a loaded with toxic material and thus becomes a brownfield or one of the many superfund sites.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks much for the thoughts, gents.

I was aware of some (but certainly not all) of the issues/challenges of reclaiming a landfill via golf course construction.

(Jeff B - that was cool, the routing of a course on a site that wouldn't be available for 25 years).

I admit that I do have an image - something like the one TE describes -- of a new naturalism emerging in landfill golf, one that can create modern-day versions of courses like Garden City (on the one end) and, say, Westward Ho (on the other).

Maybe people will experiment with construction techniques and early stage planning/routing and new types of/uses for grasses etc.

By the way, JPN's article included an artist's rendering of Ferry Point, and my wife happened to look over my shoulder as I was reading it. Referencing the East River and Manhattan skyline, she said "Nice views".  Referencing the fescue-type grasses, she said "But that looks dumb. Why not use plants that are actually native to the area?"  (I don't know enough to know what kind of grasses/plants are native to the area).

A municipal course in nearby Mississauga did it pretty well, creating Braeben atop an old landfill. I enjoy it, it is reasonably priced, it's a fun course, but for my tastes its (to me, excessive) mounding and shaping and irish-linksiness amidts an otherwise very large and completely flat expanse of housing just doesn't feel right. What's wrong with Garden City?

Peter

[Peter Pallotta]

PS - Tony M, goodness, but what an attractive looking course Stockley Park is, and I real surprise to me that it was built on an old dump site. Thanks for that link.

Peter

[TEPaul]

"...If you get a houising or road operation there are the cuts or foundation digs so as the buildings can sit on level plinths."


Oh come on, Adrian, most everyone knows Great Britain itself does not exactly sit on LEVEL PLINTHS! 

Can you eat a plinth? I hope so because it sounds quite tasty.

[TEPaul]

"By the way, JPN's article included an artist's rendering of Ferry Point, and my wife happened to look over my shoulder as I was reading it. Referencing the East River and Manhattan skyline, she said "Nice views".  Referencing the fescue-type grasses, she said "But that looks dumb. Why not use plants that are actually native to the area?"  (I don't know enough to know what kind of grasses/plants are native to the area)."


The native grasses and plants in that particular area are all pretty much of the concrete variety, Peter P, even if the climate is decidedly temperate, in a manner of speaking, and that might be the etymology of that common term for the area----"The Concrete Jungle."

[paul cowley]

I look at land fill sites differently....especially if a designers only option is to fill areas to create course contours....a great blank canvas!

I'm sure CB Mac would concur based on his experience at Lido.....no cuts/all fill.

Its just moving dirt over trash, and the top surface wins.

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