[Jay Flemma]

why not ireland?

[Mark Pearce]

why not ireland?

Are you volunteering to organise it?  Where did you have in mind?

[Mark Chaplin]

This post is proving BUDA needs one person to say let's meet at xyz club(s) between two dates. All in all around 60 expressed an interest in BUDA 2009 and that left 26 players. If you try and fit in with everyone a date and venue suitable for all is impossible. IMVHO trophy venues are less important than quality venues where the boys can relax and enjoy each others company.

[Paul Nash]

Dornoch with any of the options sounds good to me. I would make the trip by car and hope to have one or two stops each way - but it will cost a big present for the wife to be away for circa 6 days!

[Andy Levett]

As we bask in the warm memories of the most immediate past BUDA, I think it is time to begin to think of next year, as the sooner these things are planned the better.

From my cider-strained memories of BUDA 2009, as well as some public and private conversations through this forum, I can think of four possible alternatives which have already been put forth:

1.  Benelux--focused on one or more of the great Colt courses there, supplemented by evenings of cultural enlightenment in Amsterdam.

2.  Wales--focused on Wales, with Pennard at the center and Sean Arble as our tour guide.

3.  Machrihanish--suggested to me in a private e-mail, and a venue which has been discussed for the past BUDAs.

4.  A return to the venues of BUDA I, Dornoch and Brora.  I could take overall responsibility for this, aided ably by other GCA-ers who will be on the ground there next summer.

5.  Liphook/West Sussex, suggesetd by Craig Disher above.

Let's also think about dates.  Past BUDAs have been held in May, June and September.  I personally would prefer May or June for 2009, but what do others think?

I hereby throw this open to open debate.  Any potential participants--past, present or putative--are welcome to give their thoughts, on these tentative ideas as well as throw out their own suggestions.  I would also propose that at some point prior to the end of he year the Grand Plenipotentiary Committee meet and pass judgement on all proposals put forward on their thread or on other threads or in other media and make a decision.

Let the games begin!

Gutted to miss this year completely - first since -1  at Dornoch - but it coincided with starting a new job in a new town.

I like all the options. We'll all have selfish preferences, though mine - to pass up two of my favourite courses in the world, Dornoch and Brora, because the others would be new to me is pretty trivial. Great offer by Rich to organise but maybe one of the rest of us should step in, as he's been the frontman for several and eminence grise behind the rest.

Getting off the fence, if Sean's willing to organise Pennard et al it seems perfect to me.

Leaving the venue aside, I do think if the guy who provided the trophy has a long-standing annual previous engagement in June and the guy who currently has it in his possession (?) can't do September, then May looks good...

[Ulrich Mayring]

My experience with events in our German golf forum is that the first guy, who steps up with a definite date and venue, will get the nod. Usually many of the others, who were planning something, will then step back and declare their support for the first event. I'm not saying it will be the same here, but I don't have any other experiences.

Ulrich

[Sean_A]

As we bask in the warm memories of the most immediate past BUDA, I think it is time to begin to think of next year, as the sooner these things are planned the better.

From my cider-strained memories of BUDA 2009, as well as some public and private conversations through this forum, I can think of four possible alternatives which have already been put forth:

1.  Benelux--focused on one or more of the great Colt courses there, supplemented by evenings of cultural enlightenment in Amsterdam.

2.  Wales--focused on Wales, with Pennard at the center and Sean Arble as our tour guide.

3.  Machrihanish--suggested to me in a private e-mail, and a venue which has been discussed for the past BUDAs.

4.  A return to the venues of BUDA I, Dornoch and Brora.  I could take overall responsibility for this, aided ably by other GCA-ers who will be on the ground there next summer.

5.  Liphook/West Sussex, suggesetd by Craig Disher above.

Let's also think about dates.  Past BUDAs have been held in May, June and September.  I personally would prefer May or June for 2009, but what do others think?

I hereby throw this open to open debate.  Any potential participants--past, present or putative--are welcome to give their thoughts, on these tentative ideas as well as throw out their own suggestions.  I would also propose that at some point prior to the end of he year the Grand Plenipotentiary Committee meet and pass judgement on all proposals put forward on their thread or on other threads or in other media and make a decision.

Let the games begin!

Gutted to miss this year completely - first since -1   at Dornoch - but it coincided with starting a new job in a new town.

I like all the options. We'll all have selfish preferences, though mine - to pass up two of my favourite courses in the world, Dornoch and Brora, because the others would be new to me is pretty trivial. Great offer by Rich to organise but maybe one of the rest of us should step in, as he's been the frontman for several and eminence grise behind the rest.

Getting off the fence, if Sean's willing to organise Pennard et al it seems perfect to me.

Leaving the venue aside, I do think if the guy who provided the trophy has a long-standing annual previous engagement in June and the guy who currently has it in his possession (?) can't do September, then May looks good...

Andy

Thanks for thinking of me, but I am happy to let the chips fall where they may.  Buda is like life, and with the exception of Golf's Most Beloved Figure, it can wait for no man.


Rihc is right, the quicker these things are decided the more time people have to kick on.  It is clear that Dornoch is the favourite for most.  So, unless the unlikely scenario of Ran asking me to organize Buda at Pennard occurs I am taking the Pennard scenario off the table.  Rihc, if Dornoch doesn't work for whatever reason give me a shout.  

Ciao

[Michael Whitaker]

Rick - I will attend Buda 2010 wherever and whenever it is held... but, here are some random thoughts:

1) I really like the idea of visiting courses that I might not otherwise. Dornoch is a great idea, but so are Wales and Holland.

2) May seems to be getting the most interest, but I LOVED playing the links courses in September. Maybe we were just lucky this year, but it seems to me that September weather in the UK is always better than May. In May you run the risk of COLD weather, particularly in Dornoch... but, I will be there whenever it is staged.

3) Having a member connection at the host club is important as it makes the event affordable for everyone. If we have to play as "visitors" it drives the cost through the roof. Having said that, however, the cost of playing RStGGC this year was one of the best golf investments I have ever made.

4) As has been mentioned, playing more than one course on the same day does not fit the essence of Buda. Let's stick with the formula that has served us well and not turn this into a treasure hunt.

5) You can't worry too much about overlap with other GCA.com events. You must plan the best Buda on the best dates at the best price... then let the chips fall where they may. We got into a little hot water over this year's Dixie Cup dates, but ultimately we had to go with the dates that worked best for the clubs that were inviting us. I'm sure the KP will do just fine even if the Buda is in May.

6) Ran has an "official" trip planned to Old Macdonald for May 6-9. I would not want to see the Buda played that early in May... not because it would conflict with the Old Macdonald trip, but because the later in May get together the better the chance we will not be wearing longjohns and stocking hats.

[Philip Gawith]

As Andy has pointed out, we all have our selfish motivations. In my case, that points me towards the Wales option, which Sean has prematurely taken off the table! I think Ulrich is right and the fact that we might not anyway make it to the course IS a consideration, albeit not decisive. I also think that the Dutch option is one that most people would enjoy. I made some preliminary inquiries with Frank Pont - he is not available to host, but it is possible we could connect with Kennemer/Hague/Noordewijk contacts and see what is possible. I suspect we could have a great event there - but not sure who is holding up their hand to organise. I would be happy to get some names of people who we could approach (who have some knowledge of Ran/GCA) but then someone else would need to follow though.

I am not sure I have understood why May has emerged as a preferred time over Sept. My sense is that we are all more likely to have prior commitments in May/June and holding the Buda late in Set/Oct means it is less likely to present a clash to anyone.

Anyway, my hope is that the Buda event makes its Welsh debut next year with golf at Pennard and Porthcawl! And that it very soon heads to the Netherlands. I stand back to no-one in affection for Dornoch, but Buda has already been there, it is familiar to quite a few, it was in Scotland last year....I hope it will return there before long, but I think we should sample some of these other destinations first.

[Jay Flemma]

why not ireland?

Are you volunteering to organise it?  Where did you have in mind?

Hey Mark, good to see you.

I can't and shouldn't organize it because I don't have the time, don't know the people to contact, and wouldn't want to take it away from all the great guys on your side of the pond who do such a great job.  Besides, we in the USA have the USA events, I don't want to trod on your toes.

But purely as ideas:

1. Northern Ireland!  Ardglass and RCD?  RCD and Portrush?

2. NW Ireland!  It's cheaper!  Carne, Enniscrone and Connemara?

3. Dublin!  Easy to get around...not too much driving...lots of choices.

4.  SW - Ballybunion and Lahinch?

[Mark Chaplin]

Mike - you are right about members would RStG have been so palatable on the wallet if we'd paid £120 a day for the second venue?

Jay - with the strength of the € Ireland is very expensive for us Brits. Also the golfing sheep head there in droves, on my US trip earlier this year we met people who'd visited Ireland and Scotland 5 and 6 times yet had never visited the Buda 2009 links courses and the world class heaths.

For me BUDA will be stronger for the likes of RP/Pennard, Saunton/RND, RWN/Hunstanton, Benelux and surely the ultimate venues Askernish and Machrihanish.

Mike is also right about May nice for flowers but forget any remote chance of F&F!

[Ben Stephens]

Dear GCA,

I would love to take part in nxt years BUDA. September could be tricky for James Boon as we are penned down for UK Architects Inter Regional Tournament.

It has been an ambition of mine to play Dornoch but as a Welshman I would love seeing BUDA be played in South Wales so therefor I am trumping up for Wales.

There are fantastic courses in the South Wales area, using Pennard as the 'central or main' venue. We can venture around and play Royal Porthcawl, Pyle and Kenfig, Southerndown, Clyne, Ashburnham etc which are all less that 50 miles from Pennard and the M4 motorway is close by to most of these courses. Painswick is not far away over the bridge and Welsh border.

The other option in Wales would be for North and West coast of Wales - Royal St Davids, Aberdovey, Conwy, Nefyn, Porthmadog, Bulls Bay etc.   

If most people on GCA choose to go to North Scotland (Highlands) next year I would be happy to play there and suggest that Wales could be the venue for 2011 and Ireland or Holland in 2012 as part of future venues planning for BUDA contests.

[Sean_A]

Philip

I agree that September is the best time by far to hold a Buda like event.  The courses have a much better chance to be in shape and the rough is generally less harsh.  

I have always thought Buda is better off sticking to England/Wales because Scotland and Ireland are obvious targets for most touristas.  Many of us have been to the big dogs which would lure overseas Pests and may not care to spend the money to go again.  However, some folks invest a lot of time and money on these trips and so should go where they please.  If the group think is Dornoch and you have a member connection then why not go to Dornoch?  

Ciao

[Jay Flemma]

Mike - you are right about members would RStG have been so palatable on the wallet if we'd paid £120 a day for the second venue?

Jay - with the strength of the € Ireland is very expensive for us Brits. Also the golfing sheep head there in droves, on my US trip earlier this year we met people who'd visited Ireland and Scotland 5 and 6 times yet had never visited the Buda 2009 links courses and the world class heaths.

For me BUDA will be stronger for the likes of RP/Pennard, Saunton/RND, RWN/Hunstanton, Benelux and surely the ultimate venues Askernish and Machrihanish.

Mike is also right about May nice for flowers but forget any remote chance of F&F!

Well, I know I'll be in the minority, but I'll vote for the BeNeLux countries.

for something completely different:)

[Mark Pearce]

If we have contacts in the Dutch clubs then I'd be willing to take on the organisational mantle, though obviously that's not the same as having an organiser who is a member of the host club.  However, there will be a limit to the number of BUDA-suitable clubs where we have members and, for me, discovery is part of the BUDA experience.  There seems to be a surge of opinion in favour of Dornoch or Pennard, somewhat confused by Sean's removal of the Pennard option.

[Paul Nash]

one good thing about Wales would be cost - Porthcawl is the only expensive course. The negative is that the courses are a bit more spread out than some areas - although P&K and Porthcawl are next to each other.

Another option, albeit a bit different from the others, would be Bournemouth - heathland courses at Parstone, Broadstone and Ferndown and cliftop at Isle of Purbeck. There is also the links at Hayling Island not too far away. It would also open up allthe Berks/ Surrey/ Hants heathland courses for before/ after.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Logistics for the Netherlands:

From Hoek van Holland (Harwich / Hull ferries) to Royal Hague (which is probably the best course of the bunch) is 17 miles, from there to Nordwijkse 13 miles, from there to Kennemer another 11 miles. For those flying in from the UK, Rotterdam airport is 16 miles from Royal Hague. International flights would go to Amsterdam Schiphol, which is 22 miles away.

Royal Zoute (Belgium) would be more of a pre/post event venue, as it's about 2.5 hours south from the Dutch hotbed of courses. But for those crossing the channel in the Dover/Calais area it would be right on the way up the coast.

Ulrich

[Scott Warren]

For those driving, you can also get ferries from Ramsgate in Kent to Zeebrugge, which is 20mins north of Brugge/Bruges and very close - 15 mins or so - to Royal Zoute and Royal Oostende.

The Eurostar train from London is another option.

[Craig Disher]

I've noticed no further mention of Liphook and West Sussex. I think they deserve consideration - we have a contact at Liphook, a friendly club with a charming clubhouse and a beautiful, interesting parkland/heathland course. West Sussex is just a great course that doesn't get a lot of attention, maybe because it's away from the Surrey cluster. They are very close to each other and both fit the category of least visited - I doubt many of us from the US have played either.

My pick would be Holland but the lack of a member who will act as an organizer could be a problem. And would the pound/euro imbalance cause a problem for some of our UK participants?

http://www.westsussexgolf.co.uk/
http://www.liphookgolfclub.com/index.lasso?pg=b16b630ff6d1fc03&mp=79cad6c649685478

[Jay Flemma]

Logistics for the Netherlands:

From Hoek van Holland (Harwich / Hull ferries) to Royal Hague (which is probably the best course of the bunch) is 17 miles, from there to Nordwijkse 13 miles, from there to Kennemer another 11 miles. For those flying in from the UK, Rotterdam airport is 16 miles from Royal Hague. International flights would go to Amsterdam Schiphol, which is 22 miles away.

Royal Zoute (Belgium) would be more of a pre/post event venue, as it's about 2.5 hours south from the Dutch hotbed of courses. But for those crossing the channel in the Dover/Calais area it would be right on the way up the coast.

Ulrich

So for those that have never been to the Buda, do you Buda vets think those distances would make it viable?

[Rich Goodale]

Thanks, All, for the suggestions and thoughts.  Please let me add some interim comments, firstly vis a vis the venues:

Dornoch:  This is a paradigm or a strawman, depending on your point of view.  It can be done and will be done if the Plenipotentiary Site Selection Committee of BUDA so chooses.  The timing would probably be mid-late May to accomodate those to whom 60 degrees is frostbite weather and to maximize our exposure to the flowering gorse.  The course will probably play as fast and firm as Kent/East Sussex did this September (which is only average fast and firm for Scotland).  The clubhouse will be relatively deserted at this time of year, so we should have relatively free reign of it, as we did at Deal.  While we will probably be able to attract a good number of local worthies to the event, we should not count on paying Members Guest fees rather than the rack rate (budget ~£250/$400 for the 3 days of golf).  The food will be equal to or better than the fine grub served in SE England.

Pennard:  This could be an ideal event, particularly if it was a 3-day venue (i.e. no secondary course).  A throwback to BUDA II at Painswick, where almost all of us revelled in total immersion in a unique golfing/club experience.  Sean, I hope you will take the towel out of the ring and fight your corner.  After all, the BUDA trophy itself is yours, we have missed you in recent events and Wales deserves a shot.

Machirihanish:  Nobody has stepped forward so far, so it is falling off the radar screen.

Liphook/East Sussex:  The would probably be a great, easy to get to for Americans, venue.  Those of us from Scotland might find it hard to justify such an early revisit to Sassenach country, but we could be convinced.  Tell us more, Craig.

Benelux:  There are some heavy hitters moving behind the scenes for this one, and we await their recommendations.  It would even more internationalise BUDA, as well as widen our understanding of recreational mood enhancement chemicals as well as the conversational abilities of women sitting in chairs behind windows on busy main streets in European capitals.  Colt Phanatics, make your case!

I await comments.  One general one I will add is that I personally am far less interested in maintaining "traditions" of such a young event except for the tradition that each event is unique and should and will stand on its own.

Finally, we should all know that this event was started as and will always continue as "Not an official GCA event" and a not-for-profit activity.  What Ran and Ben do in their travel business is irrelevant to BUDA and vice versa, although each will repsect the other, I am sure.

Rich

[Tony_Muldoon]

My experience with events in our German golf forum is that the first guy, who steps up with a definite date and venue, will get the nod. Usually many of the others, who were planning something, will then step back and declare their support for the first event. I'm not saying it will be the same here, but I don't have any other experiences.

Ulrich

Ulright your predictions are as accurate as your driving (by repute).


All are fine venues with pro's and cons and each would be a worthy host next or subsequent years.  Eventualy one person will step forward with thier proposal, alas I cannot offer to do it this year.



Peter Allen " I think if I had to choose one example to demonstrate the best sort of British inland course, to explain what it was trying to do to provide entertainment, and why it had to be so different from a links, to some men from Mars or a group of intelligent Americans, I think I would pick Pulborough".  (West Sussex)

[Sean_A]

Rich

"Pennard:  This could be an ideal event, particularly if it was a 3-day venue (i.e. no secondary course).  A throwback to BUDA II at Painswick, where almost all of us revelled in total immersion in a unique golfing/club experience.  Sean, I hope you will take the towel out of the ring and fight your corner.  After all, the BUDA trophy itself is yours, we have missed you in recent events and Wales deserves a shot."

It is very kind to say you have missed me the past few years.  Donating the cup was my pleasure and in no way should sway the crowd toward my opinions. 

I don't much see the point in fighting corners as I am not fussed where Buda goes so long as there is an enthusiastic organizer and crowd.  It is clear that Dornoch has both so it seems to me a perfect choice. 

As stated earlier, I am happy to lurk in the background with Pennard as a backup plan if Dornoch doesn't work out and folks want to go to Pennard.  Acting as the under-study enables people to kick on with plans rather than faffing about looking for a mythical consensus.  What do you lot think this is - college football?

Ciao   

[Mark Chaplin]

A request from the lovely bar girls at Deal "can we make it an annual event"!

[Bill_McBride]

A request from the lovely bar girls at Deal "can we make it an annual event"!

Thumbs up here.

I played 4 holes today in an increasingly miserable rain that was very reminiscent of the front nine at Rye two weeks ago.  Now our dining room looks like a drying room!

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