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Eric Smith

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GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« on: September 25, 2009, 01:00:23 PM »


Congratulations to Forest Dunes in Roscommon, MI as it was voted the #1 Public Golf Facility in America by GolfWorld's readers.  "More than 46,000 votes and 600,000 criteria evaluations led to GolfWorld's Readers' Choice selections."

Forest Dunes is one of my favorite places, just a great golf getaway.

Here's the top 50 public list... http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/2009/09/golf_readers_choice_top_50_public
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Jud_T

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2009, 01:39:51 PM »
a completely rediculous list, both public and private...2 trump courses above crystal downs and sand hills? come on guys.....
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mark Pritchett

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2009, 01:43:50 PM »
I would guess more people who voted have played Forest Dunes than Crystal Downs.  One thing you can be sure of-post a list of any kind on this board and someone will call it ridiculous in just a few responses. 
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Richard Choi

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2009, 01:48:43 PM »
Quote from: DSchmidt on September 25, 2009, 01:33:14 PM
Plow through that list...Bethpage is #36.  That pretty much tells me all I need to know...

Not if you look at it from the Cart Golf perspective... :)
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Jim Franklin

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 02:00:59 PM »
I will dare say the Golf World list is about as bad as they come. Golf Digest looks impeccable compared to it. I saw their list yesterday and waaaay too many courses were being rated in the 9+ scoring range. To me, that is just not right, but that is also the general public's view of golf.
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Mr Hurricane

Steve Kline

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2009, 02:03:39 PM »
Yep...everything's a nine.

The Golf Digest ratings done by users of their site are worthless for this very reason. Some of the courses rated as a 4 that I have played I would never play again.
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Jim Franklin

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2009, 02:05:34 PM »
Quote from: Steve Kline on September 25, 2009, 02:03:39 PM
Yep...everything's a nine.

The Golf Digest ratings done by users of their site are worthless for this very reason. Some of the courses rated as a 4 that I have played I would never play again.

Is a 4 a good course? I would say no and would not want to play there again. So what is the problem?
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Mr Hurricane

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2009, 02:05:39 PM »
I looked at the BP rankings - low on clubhouse, food, pace of play, other amenities.  Given the critieria, I can imagine sleeping in my car all night just for the privilege of playing at a course with surly service would downgrade the experience to "only" 36.  

This ranking is based on more than architecture.  And its based on the Joe Sixpack, not the elitest snob.  Nothing wrong with a ranking like that.  It is what it is.  And while you might not like certain courses as much, being the access whores  ;) you are, its probably a pretty good indication of what the typical reader of Golf World, or the typical Joe 6 would probably like if he showed up.

A bit OT, but is that really a photo of Cypress in the Private Slide show? I can't ID the holes right off the bat. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 02:22:02 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Michael Blake

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2009, 02:16:28 PM »
And BP ranks #10 in the 'golf course quality' category.

Nice to see such categories as 'pro shop,' 'off course amenities/activities,'  and 'clubhouse/locker room' given some weight  ::)
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Jim Colton

Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2009, 02:40:43 PM »
Can someone tell me about The Ridge at Back Brook?  It's a 9.81, just behind Cypress Point (9.82)

Some serious ballot stuffing going on here.
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Phil_the_Author

Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 02:41:42 PM »
Actually, this is not a ranking of Bethpage BLACK, but of BETHPAGE State Park GC... Though I am quite sure in ASSUMING that the majority of those voting in this were refering to the Black, it is not noted as such in the article but only as BETHPAGE. I have to ask if this includes the Red and the other courses...
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Rob Rigg

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 03:32:14 PM »
Always good to see what people think outside of our little bubble.

Some of those courses I had never heard of - and I wonder how the "private" part even works - there is no way a lot of GW readers would have played some of the tough privates to get on - right? - so did they rate them anyways? or was the rating pool for those clubs really small?

Based on the recent thread about "what they need to do to improve Pine Valley" - these lists can never be a real shock to the system - can they?
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Tim Leahy

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2009, 04:47:52 PM »
Quote from: DSchmidt on September 25, 2009, 01:33:14 PM
Plow through that list...Bethpage is #36.  That pretty much tells me all I need to know...

Like Yogi Berra once said, nobody plays Bethpage Black anymore, it's too crowded and you have to walk. :D
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I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

jeffwarne

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2009, 02:23:41 PM »
Quote from: Jim Franklin on September 25, 2009, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: Steve Kline on September 25, 2009, 02:03:39 PM
Yep...everything's a nine.

The Golf Digest ratings done by users of their site are worthless for this very reason. Some of the courses rated as a 4 that I have played I would never play again.

Is a 4 a good course? I would say no and would not want to play there again. So what is the problem?

I just played three Doak "2" courses (Shiskine, Carradale, and Dunaverty) for the second time that contain stunning scenery and sporty,fun golf in a an uncrowded relaxed enviroment so I put little stock in other people's absolute # ratings, no matter how qualified or well traveled.
But I certainly do appreciate and respect their opinions and the effort and passion that went into forming them.
Different strokes for different folks
« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 09:53:59 AM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Brent Carlson

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2009, 01:03:10 AM »
I've heard that FD is a very good course.

How does it rank in GCA eyes?  Internal scoring to say.
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Ryan Farrow

Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2009, 07:07:28 AM »
I don't mind the concept, It would be great for everyone to know what the real populous of the golfing world thinks. But how hard is it to come up with some relevant rating criteria. Its got to be about the GOLF or else nobody will take this thing seriously. I could care less who makes the list or who doesn't, but at least base it on the actual golfing experience, not how well the cart boy washed your clubs, or if the clubhouse had an adequate selection of hats to choose from.

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ed_getka

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2009, 07:15:01 AM »
Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on September 25, 2009, 02:05:39 PM
I looked at the BP rankings - low on clubhouse, food, pace of play, other amenities.  Given the critieria, I can imagine sleeping in my car all night just for the privilege of playing at a course with surly service would downgrade the experience to "only" 36.  

This ranking is based on more than architecture.  And its based on the Joe Sixpack, not the elitest snob.  Nothing wrong with a ranking like that.  It is what it is.  And while you might not like certain courses as much, being the access whores  ;) you are, its probably a pretty good indication of what the typical reader of Golf World, or the typical Joe 6 would probably like if he showed up.

A bit OT, but is that really a photo of Cypress in the Private Slide show? I can't ID the holes right off the bat. 
Cypress
#8 green is top of photo. #9 comes back down the left of that. #6 green is middle right. #11 green is lower right.
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Adam Clayman

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2009, 09:12:05 AM »
Jeff. How do you really feel about the participants in this forum?
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

jeffwarne

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2009, 09:51:41 AM »
Quote from: Adam Clayman on September 27, 2009, 09:12:05 AM
Jeff. How do you really feel about the participants in this forum?

Adam,
Did you forget the smiley face?

So far, All the participants I've met on this forum have been great people and I have received invaluable input from the opinions and experiences of our well traveled and insightful GCAers.
Do I need to edit my post?
I put little stock in absolute numbers, not in their opinions or descriptions.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 09:55:01 AM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Adam Clayman

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2009, 10:34:38 AM »
Jeff W. I also forgot to include the quotes from Jeff B.

Quote
And its based on the Joe Sixpack, not the elitest snob.
;D
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: GolfWorld readers vote Forest Dunes #1!
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2009, 10:44:50 AM »
Adam,

I love everybody and wish them a happy everything.  I did add my own smiley face, ya know.  But, this thread is perfectly predictable here. At least one of 1500 who are truly interested in architecture will post a thread sort of looking down the noses of the popular opinion of the masses. 

It reminds me of a friend who snubbed his nose at the Beatles and Stones, while letting me know that his favorite band, that no one ever heard of because they could play wildly difficult arrangements, whereas the big boys stuck to fairly predictable chord arrangements.  The bazillions of record sales vs probably hundreds of his band, never seemed to sway his opinion that there must be something right about their music.
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach
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