North Carolina Golf

[David Stamm]

I wanted to know about the golf scene in North Carolina, both pubic and private. Ed Oden has shared info with me in the past about Charlotte, but I'm curious how those (including Ed!) that know the state well how the regions compare such as Raleigh-Durham, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Charlotte, Asheville etc. What's the best region for the public golfer (besides the Sand Hills) and one who is looking to join a reasonably priced club? What's typical membership costs in the major met areas? And would you say that NC compares favorably to some of the top states? Would you say that NC was on par with Virgina? South Carolina? Just curious, as NC looks top to bottom as a very attractive state from both a golf and non golf perspective. Thanks for responses.

[Anthony Gray]

  David,

 Every fall I go to The Groove Park Inn in Ashville for classes. The course there was redone by Ross and rumored to be original by Park. It is short and tight but is emaculate with fast greens. The Inn has a 50000 sq foot spa wich is world class and the food is also. This is the perfect couples get-a-way. I have a bunch of photos but have not gotton around to post a thread. I will soon.

  Anthony

[Bart Bradley]

David:  

North Carolina has a tremendous depth of great golf courses and in many styles and tastes:

They even have their own ranking panel   ....have you seen this group's listing?

http://www.ncgolfpanel.com/courserankings.cfm#1

Bart

P.S...I don't agree with the list and there are some glaring omissions and mistakes...

Oh and be sure to scroll down...it gives a breakdown of the courses in the various regions!!

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

David --

Golf, both public and private, is top-notch in NC. 

I live in the Piedmont-Triad region (Greensboro, W-S, High Point).  In our metro area alone, there are 8 very good private clubs that boast designs from the best architects of all-time (Ross, Maxwell, Dye).  Winston has a muni course that hosted a PGA Championship in the 70s (Tanglewood), and Greensboro's muni (Bryan Park) hosts the US Pub Links this coming year. 

The Triangle (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) is loaded with more good public golf.  In particular, the Duke and Finley (UNC) golf courses seem to have a strong following (though some on here don't necessarily like them).  From my experience, I think the private golf options in and around Raleigh aren't as good as the Triad, but I'm biased.

Charlotte has very good private golf as well.  Ed Oden is more of an expert on that region, but I found Myers Park CC, Carolina CC, and Charlotte CC to be very good.

The mountains of NC have a ton of private golf communities.  In general, the region is lacking in good quality public golf, but the private side more than makes up for it with Grandfather CC, Biltmore Forest CC, Linville CC, and Wade Hampton all on the short-list of greatest all-time mountain designs.

The coast is a bit of a mixed bag.  The Wilmington area has some excellent private layouts but not much in the public arena.  An hour south towards Myrtle Beach more than makes up for Wilmington's public golf deficiency however.  If you can't find a golf course you like in Myrtle, then you aren't trying. I don't know much about the Outer Banks golf options.  Some people wonder why even play golf when you're in heaven to begin with...

Jay

[David Stamm]

Thanks guys! Keep the thoughts coming!

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

By the way, don't go by those rankings at the NC panel website.  While the list hits most of the best golf courses, the order is ATROCIOUS by any measure.  WOW... I haven't seen that in a while and it never ceases to amaze me.

[Chip Gaskins]

Growing up in New Bern, NC and going to college in Greenville, Raleigh and Chapel Hill I have played a lot of golf in NC.  As has been said above, there are a lot of great courses in the state.  With that said, NC has one of the most beautiful coastlines in the country (actually the world), yet has some of the worst coastal golf in the country.  My dream is to find that sandy piece of land and change that one day!

[jim_lewis]

You hear a lot of sqawking here about the price of golf at the Pinehurst Resort. That may be true for guests, but it is one of the best deals in the country for members. One membership allows members to play courses #1-#6, and there are usually off-season access deals for members at #8. I don't know what the current initiation is but I think it is around $25K and the monthly dues are very reasonalble. Members do not pay extra for #2. The trick is that you have to own a lot or a home in Pinehurst. If you buy a home with a "member lot", you can transfer the membership for about $12K. You do share the courses with the resort guests, but where else can you play 6 fine courses including one of the world's great courses for such a reasonable price?

[Bill_McBride]

  David,

 Every fall I go to The Groove Park Inn in Ashville for classes. The course there was redone by Ross and rumored to be original by Park. It is short and tight but is emaculate with fast greens. The Inn has a 50000 sq foot spa wich is world class and the food is also. This is the perfect couples get-a-way. I have a bunch of photos but have not gotton around to post a thread. I will soon.

  Anthony

We were staying with friends in Cashiers in late August and were supposed to drive over to Ashville and play the "Groove Park Inn" (I think it's actually the "Grove Park"), but my wife came down with a nasty case of bronchitis so we had to cancel.  Instead we sat around all day and watched the Solheim Cup.   

[Ed Oden]

Jay, thanks for the props, but I am no more an "expert" than Carl Spackler.  That being said, I pretty much agree with all your thoughts.  Of course, you neglected to mention the best of the bunch of the mountain courses.     Oh well.

I also concur with Chip's comment about the coastal courses.  Other than Cape Fear and Eagle Point, I'm not sure there is much to recommend.

I've said this before, but the thing I find most interesting about NC golf is that there just seems to be an endless supply of quality courses designed by Ross (and to a lesser extent Maples and others) that dot the landscape in off the radar places throughout the state.  Places like CC of Salisbury in Salisbury, Gaston CC in Gastonia, Catawba CC in Newton, Mimosa Hills in Morganton.  No one is ever going to confuse these with the "great" courses that most on this site (myself included) like to discuss ad nauseum.  On the other hand, they almost always exceed expectations and are generally great places to play where the quality of the architecture shines through in a refreshingly unpretentious way.  To me, it is more impressive that a guy like Ross could deliver the goods in these places (i.e., small town, presumably small budget, perhaps even a mail in job based on a topo) than it is that he could create something like Pinehurst #2.  The end result is a depth of courses in this state that I think is a bit unique.

Ed

[Ed Oden]

...one more thing, most of these places are remarkably affordable.  For those that lament the absence of quality affordable private club golf, move to Morganton!

[Greg Holland]

David --

I live in the Piedmont-Triad region (Greensboro, W-S, High Point).  In our metro area alone, there are 8 very good private clubs that boast designs from the best architects of all-time (Ross, Maxwell, Dye).  Winston has a muni course that hosted a PGA Championship in the 70s (Tanglewood), and Greensboro's muni (Bryan Park) hosts the US Pub Links this coming year. 

Jay

In the Triad, other good public courses are Oak Hollow (Dye), Greensboro National, and Grandover Resort (2 courses by Graham/Panks).  Strantz's Tot Hill Farm is a half hour a way, the private Old North State is less than an hour and Pinehurst is only a little over an hour away.   

[Jim Franklin]

Wow, Tobacco Road #63. Who is on THAT panel? How good is Eagle Point? I know GD just put it into the Top 100.

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

If Old Town is the 23rd best course in this state, then California, Pennsylvania and NJ/NY have nothing on NC.  The rankings on that panel are ridiculous.

[ed_getka]

Oak Hollow has to be one of if not THE best value in public golf. $16 during the week to walk. Some very interesting holes there. Not great throughout and conditioning is fine (don't expect private club conditions), but more than enough good architecture for $16.

[rjsimper]

The NC Rankings have long been known to be a bit odd....but I do agree with those who say it's nice to see what is in the top 100, just so that you know that we're looking at a general assumption of quality if on the list.

Jim Lewis does hit on the best membership value, Pinehurst.

As you know, Dave, I can only really speak about the Ral/Dur area and the eastern Triad, but Ral/Dur seems to feature scores of daily-fee courses in the 50-75 dollar range that are all on the level of say, Arroyo Trabuco to put in So Cal terms. Worth playing, not worth traveling for.

Many clubs around here are semi-private and offer a decent value on membership - typically somewhere around 4-5k to join and monthly fees in the $200 neighborhood give or take. 

In Ral/Dur, there are several old money clubs that are "forget about it" on getting in (Hope Valley, Carolina), a couple new upscale clubs (Hasentree, Old Chatham) and some quality residential clubs (Treyburn, Prestonwood).  Of the ones that can be joined, I believe that the typical initiation is between 20 and 40 or 50k, and monthly dues are typically in the $400/month neighborhood. Not exactly cheap, but we're not talking Shady Canyon money either.

Toward Burlington there are 2 semi-privates that are decent layouts - Mill Creek and The Challenge.  Alamance Country Club (Ross) is out that way and has a reasonably priced junior membership for a true private club- of what I've seen, easily the best value amongst privates for course x price.  My membership dues at Mill Creek run sub-$150 a month which is a deal...but it's a 35 minute drive for me (No different than West LA to Rustic)

Only played Grove Park once - day before my wedding, and enjoyed it - great setting.  When looking for options for golf out that way for the wedding, it seemed there was a big spread between a few mega upscales (Grove Park, Linville) and the elite privates (Wade Hampton, Cliffs, Grandfather) and then the cheapies (Asheville muni)
 
I know nothing about Charlotte or coastal golf.

I am playing Sedgefield in a week and a half, but I don't know what the deal is with membership there.  The Triad area seems to have a pretty good set of leaders between Sedgefield and Old Town, though...

[David Stamm]

Guys, thanks for all thiis great info. I've been asked by some if I'm thinking of moving since I started this thread. The answer is no, not right now, but if and when I do, NC is on the short list of places I'd like to go to. I used to live in Virginia a long time ago, so I'd pass through NC w/ the family all the time and always liked it there.


Ed, I remember our emails about CC of Salisbury and Mimosa Hills and I remember how astounded I was by the price of such good looking clubs, and Ross' to boot! How far a drive is Morganton and Salisbury from Charlotte, as that seems to be the closest big city? Are they nice towns?

[Brett Waters]

Salisbury is relatively close to Charlotte. Probably 40 miles, all interestate. Morganton is a little farther - My guess would be 1h 15 minutes or so.

[Ed Oden]

Brett has the distances from Charlotte about right.  Both are nice little towns just off the Interstate (I-85 for Salisbury and I-40 for Morganton).  I'm guessing their populations are in the 20,000-30,000 range with Salisbury probably a bit larger.  Morganton is at the base of the NC mountains.

[Carl Johnson]

As a Charlotte, North Carolinian, I'll chime in.

First, I'd never heard of this list, cited earlier: http://www.ncgolfpanel.com/courserankings.cfm#1.  I agree with the others who find it somewhat off-base.  But then this is a subjective matter, isn't it?

Second, I'd say we've got about the same mix of courses as many other populous states (No. 11 in the 2000 census).  ODG courses, especially Ross as Ed Oden points out, resort courses, real estate development courses, municipal courses, "old-money" private courses, "new-money" private courses, mountain courses, parkland courses, seaside courses, and so on.  Like a lot of states, we've probably got a few too many courses -- a good number of which won't be around in five or ten years -- including some that are "highly rated."  I'm not going to name names.

Third, when I moved to North Carolina 44 years ago, or shortly thereafter, the state's tourism slogan was "Variety Vacationland."  A cliche, to be sure, but that's golf here today.  Another cliche, "the good, the bad and the ugly."

Fourth, I could write a small part of a chapter of a book about golf courses in North Carolina.  I know more about Charlotte (and the mountains, as contrasted with the piedmont, including Pinehurst, and the coast).  We have the "old money clubs," the "new money" clubs, and the wannabe clubs.  We have three Ross courses, all at private clubs, and all substantially modified over the years.  As you'd guess, my club, Carolina GC (Ross 1929), is by far the best bargain (where the legendary Charile Sifford learned to play, and, in fact, played nine yesterday).

We've got municipal courses in Charlotte with some nice desings, in my view, but with poor maintenance and management.  In the metro area we also have a substantial number of privately-owned public courses, including the Doak-designed Charlotte Golf Links.

Computer acting up -- got to go.

[A.G._Crockett]

I've seen the list before, and it is a waste to time to read it.  I have no idea how they arrived at their rankings, but to rank Hope Valley as the #54 course in NC, much less behind Duke and Finley, is beyond laughable.  Tobacco Road 63rd in NC, with Tot Hill not in the top 100 in the state?  Right...

My personal favorite, though, is the ranking of the Jones course at Sea Trail as #84.  It is the 3rd best course at Sea Trail, and not in the top half dozen at Sunset Beach!  (For those of you that don't get to Sunset Beach much, there are only 3 courses at Sea Trail; the Maples is the best, with Byrd in the middle.)

[Mike_M]

Would you say that NC was on par with Virgina?

As a long time Virginian who moved to NC a couple of years ago, I have to say that there's no comparison.  NC blows VA out of the water, golf-wise.

There's more good golf in the Sandhills alone than in the entire state of VA.

[Allan Long]

David,

You've pretty much heard it all and there's not much to add.....but whatever region of the state you choose, or rather you opt for public, resort or private; you are going to find some outstanding golf courses. I loved the golf scene there and miss it tremendously.

I even miss the state's panel golf ranking (for strictly comical purposes).