[Adam_F_Collins]

I'm one of those guys who feels that golf carts all over the course are kind of a sad thing.

After reading some of the passionate opinions on the Cabot thread, I wonder: What's the best balance for a 'walking only' club? Should there be absolutely no carts? Should there be exceptions due to disability? Should there be exceptions for advanced age?

What's the ideal arrangement?

[PThomas]

i'd rather walk, unless doing so is not unreasonable due to enormous tee-green distances, etc...

but a course insists i take a cart even when it is cart path only, i think that is quite wrong

[Carl Johnson]

Like some of the Scottish courses I've visited, I'd have a couple of carts with red crosses on them.  They could be reserved in advance based on a letter from a physician certifying that the player (for whatever reason, disability, age, etc.) cannot walk the course with a trolley or a caddie carrying his bag.

[Lou_Duran]

We live in an era when the few self-anointed "smart" people are hell-bent on dictating to the rest of us, the unwashed, how we must conduct our lives.  Mandatory walking just like mandatory riding is plain wrong.  Though I respect the right of the course owner to set his policies, if these are restrictive in a way that is meanigful to me, I will not patronize his business.  I shudder to think that world-class slow players prefer hoofing it.  Golf is already way too time consuming with the current mix (probably around 70/30 riding to walking on average in the U.S.) and not sufficiently profitable.  For me, the policy SHOULD be to allow the consumer to choose his poison, and pay accordingly.  As a matter of preference, I would rather walk, carrying or pulling my own bag, and playing in well under four hours.  

[Mark Pritchett]

I think Lou pretty much nailed it. 

[rjsimper]

I'm pretty sure I would never join a walking-only club.

The ideal for me would be:
-Walking permitted at ALL times
-Caddies available, not mandatory, and available at a reasonable cost. I do not need some guy giving me fist taps and stroking my ego like some of the Bandon caddies do...everyone knows the type.  I'd rather pay $40 for a guy that shuts up, carries my bag, tends the flagstick, and cleans my ball, than pay $80 for a guy who tries to make me feel like a tour pro.
- Carts available (sometimes I just don't feel like walking...if its hot, if its going to rain, if I need to play in 2 hours)

The most annoying thing to me is "Cart Path Only" whilst also prohibiting walking.  My course has a no walking before Noon policy on weekends, and that remains enforced even if it's cart path only.  I do not know of any official study done, but I believe walking is faster than cart path only carting in many cases, or at least equivalent.

[John Mayhugh]

I think Lou pretty much nailed it. 

That wouldn't be the first time. 

[Garland Bayley]

... I shudder to think that world-class slow players prefer hoofing it. ...

Fortunately world-class slow players prefer to ride two to a cart and not get off their fat you know whats until the cart is parked within 2 yards of their ball at which point they engage in the slow tedious walk all the way to the back of their cart and agonize about club selection for their far less than tour caliber games.

[Richard Choi]

I think Bandon Dunes have it just right.

[Sean_A]

I pretty much agree with Lou with one proviso - no cart paths.  I don;t like the idea of cart paths interfering with the game.  Either the weather is suitable for carts or it isn't.  

Ciao

[John Keenan]

I must agree with Lou. Walking only is far too restrictive. Many older people need a cart. Walking 18 or even 9 is too much of a challenge for them. Are they disabled NO just older.

Let people make their own decisions if they want to ride great if they want to walk great. If someone does not like the look of carts on a golf course well so be it. As my teenagers used to say "get over it"  Enjoy the day and get over what is really a very small issue.

John

typically a walker with a pull cart

[Ken Moum]

... I shudder to think that world-class slow players prefer hoofing it. ...

Fortunately world-class slow players prefer to ride two to a cart and not get off their fat you know whats until the cart is parked within 2 yards of their ball at which point they engage in the slow tedious walk all the way to the back of their cart and agonize about club selection for their far less than tour caliber games.

Given the number of these yahoos inhabiting courses I play, I have reached the conclusion that either Segway or SoloRider carts are the solution. When I do ride I try to sit in a cart while watching my cart partner play their shot. I sometimes don't bother to get in the cart at all, preferring to get to my ball and figure out what I am going to do, then be ready to pull a club and hit ASAP.

Or, one of us gets dropped at their ball while the other heads off in the cart.

Or, I jump out of the cart with some clubs and walk to my ball after my partner stops at their ball.

But Segway and Solorider solve it completely. (And SoloRider has the added advantage of being ADA friendly)

[Brent Hutto]

I agree with Lou far more often than not but in this case not. I would pay extra to play at a club with no carts allowed other than a modest fleet (maybe a half dozen or so?) for those who would be unable to play without them. And by "pay extra" I mean gladly see my dues higher in order make up for the supposedly massive revenue which is always invoked to justify carts here, there and everywhere.

It's a purely thought experiment, alas. Living as I do in the southeastern USA the golf cart is as much a part of the culture as the club swimming pool or having multiple televisions blaring in every room of the clubhouse.

P.S. And as a side issue, no caddies for me thanks.

[Rob Rigg]

If you want to have a Walking Only type course (ie - let's say 80% of the golfers should walk) then there are several things that a course can do to make this a reality (which can be seen at many private clubs where most of the people do in fact walk).

1) Ensure the layout is truly walkable with short green to tee transfers

2) Encourage a walking culture - ie) provide Push-Carts for free and have a small fleet of Motorized Carts (5 to 10) for those who need them, and if possible provide a reasonably priced caddie program

3) No cart paths - The problem with "Cart Paths Only" - which is what they do at Pumpkin Ridge - is that while it does get some people out of carts and is better for the grass, it increases the round by a good 15 to 30 minutes depending on the day bc people have to walk over and back on every shot. And like Sean said, if the weather is not suitable then carts cannot go out on the course.

4) Charge a high "fee" for carts - ie) do not include them in green fees or make the additional expense minimal, and make the carts subsidize the cost for walkers and pay for the damage to the course that they cause. I know this will result in fewer rounds by "cart golfers" but c'est la vie if you want a walking course or club.

5) Ensure that your marketing makes it evident to golfers that you are a walking preferred course/club with no restrictions on walking, no cart paths, free push carts, and a limited fleet of carts.

I like the Bandon model a lot as a passionate walker, but realize that type of hard and fast rule cannot work for many courses who simply cannot provide the Bandon/Ballyneal/Chambers Bay experience.

[Steve Kline]

I would pay $25-50 more per month to be able to walk whenever I want sans caddie.

Also, the course/business owners should be able to make whatever decision they want - their course, their rules.

But, if I owner a course there would be no cart paths and carts (the single rider kind I've seen in Scotland) would be allowed out of medical necessity only.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

We have a system that works pretty well here at The Ocean Course.  Tee times prior to noon are walking only unless the player has a physical disability dictated by a physician that would prevent them from walking.  Walkers can carry their own, use a cart (if they bring it - we don't have any) or take a caddie.  There are no "caddie fees."  It's the same cost to carry, take a caddie or ride.  Caddies, however, do accept gratuities (we suggest $65/bag but it's totally up the the player how much they tip).  Those who insist on riding can play after noon.  This way, it spreads the round throughout the day.

[Melvyn Morrow]

How can a real golfer take a cart? How can a player say he has just played a round of golf by using a cart? What is the point of playing golf and not Walking, it’s like saying I believe in God, but totally deny his existence.

Golf is a walking game. Carts have only been around since WW2. IMHO, they do not add to the game, but certainly diminish the contact with the course and just kill any enjoyment of the game.

Carts mean cart tracks, which are the creation of the Devil. 

Melvyn

[Ulrich Mayring]

There are times when I want to play 18, but only have daylight for 9. Using a cart will do the trick.

I'll admit, it's a luxury. Especially because our courses are rarely that empty. Of my ca. 50 rounds this year I have played exactly one with a cart. It was fun, though, breezing around the course and overtaking all my buddies

I think last year I played two rounds with a cart, when I was at a golf course with long green to tee walks. So I am not prepared to condemn carts outright, they do have their place. But it should be an exception. And it is everywhere I have played golf except in the USA.

Ulrich

[Cliff Hamm]

Some great points made.  I'm glad to see that many don't believe that walking only is always the best policy.  If you are younger imagine what golf will be for you when you are no longer young.  If you can walk without pain imagine what it is like when you have pain.

I do like Lou's libertarian model - let the individual decide.  Otherwise, I am not crazy about the Bandon model.  Incredible hassles for those with disabilities.  I think it is important that those with disabilities should not have to jump thru too many hoops.  Is a doctor's note really needed?  Isn't an auto disability card sufficient?  Or better yet the person's word.  Yes, some will lie but wouldn't it be great if we could return to a simpler age when we could accept the word of the individual?

I think a policy that allows anyone over 60 to take a cart makes sense.  Obviously those with disabilities.  Perhaps if temp over 90 or so.  It is imperative though that the course have enough carts.  This is a problem at Bandon as they insist you make a tee time far in advance if you want a cart or they state they may  not have one.

As with most things avoid extremist positions.  Carts only, no walking.  Walking only no carts.  The middle is usually the best place to be.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'm one of those guys who feels that golf carts all over the course are kind of a sad thing.

After reading some of the passionate opinions on the Cabot thread, I wonder: What's the best balance for a 'walking only' club? Should there be absolutely no carts? Should there be exceptions due to disability? Should there be exceptions for advanced age?

What's the ideal arrangement?

It's hard to say.

When I was 150 lbs and couldn't walk 50 feet, playing in a cart was the only way I could get around the golf course.
Had that been taken away from me it would have undermined my spirit and perhaps my outlook since I would have been deprived of playing the game I love with friends and foe alike.

The balance I'd like to see is: walking with those who have bona fide medical excuses allowed to use carts.
Unfortunately, today, almost anyone can probably get a medical excuse.

I played Bayonne (walking only and a difficult one at that) a week before I had two angioplasties and shot even par playing Liberty National two days after the surgery, thanks to being able to use a cart.

I have friends with bad knees, hips and backs and a cart allows them to play and be competitive.

A medical excuse should be one of the reasons that a cart should be allowed. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

I pretty much agree with Lou with one proviso - no cart paths.  I don;t like the idea of cart paths interfering with the game.  Either the weather is suitable for carts or it isn't.  

Sean,

The problem with your position is that it doesn't allow for play when a golf course has been saturated with heavy rains.

Many clubs ban cart use after a heavy rain, depriving those who can't walk of the opportunity to play.

But, a well thought out cart path system can avoid turf damage and allow for play under less than ideal conditions.

Why would you want to sideline golfers who CAN'T walk ?

[Kenny Baer]

How can a real golfer take a cart? How can a player say he has just played a round of golf by using a cart? What is the point of playing golf and not Walking, it’s like saying I believe in God, but totally deny his existence.

Golf is a walking game. Carts have only been around since WW2. IMHO, they do not add to the game, but certainly diminish the contact with the course and just kill any enjoyment of the game.

Carts mean cart tracks, which are the creation of the Devil.  

Melvyn

I agree with you completely.  95% of golfers are perfectly capable of walking; the 5% who cannot should be given access to a cart.  I think golf has missed out on an opportunity to bring new people to the game who have an interest in fitness; unfortunately the game has suffered because of it.  The laziness of American culture has won.

There will always be those who think because it is American it is best, for those I ask you love your country like a spouse...always wanting it is best for it....not like a child, unconditionally regardless of behavior.

[Richard Choi]

Is a doctor's note really needed?  Isn't an auto disability card sufficient? 

When you have college QB's using auto disability card around campus for parking, I think we can safely say that those cards are abused and abused frequently.

I like Mike Keiser's stance. You should accomodate those who are disabled. But you should have to prove that you are indeed disabled.

[Tim Pitner]

I don't know how Bandon Dunes implements and enforces its policy--I have found the staff there to be eminently reasonable on most issues so I'd be surprised if they're not in this area. 

The world has plenty of walk or ride courses and too many riding only courses.  A few walking only courses shouldn't do anyone much harm.  Like Sean, I'm more concerned with cart paths than with carts themselves.  The thought of Pacific Dunes criss-crossed with concrete horrifies me.  It would be ruinous--it might resemble something like Pebble Beach from the air. 

[Steve Lang]

   

I grew up walking and mostly agree with Melvyn in spirit.. but.. there really was no choice.. pure economics..

though some of my more fun golfing experi was playing 36-54 holes a day for a week every spring in the Southern Pines area back in the 80's and 90's..  when we transitioned from full walking to part riding and then to full riding,.. it was mainly because of the courses.. and lack of price reductions for walking,.. why not?  and it was just as much fun..  

after all, its only a game, you set the rules and play

Doesn't a reasonable or practical approach have to allow that there will always be potential exceptions to every rule and that once that line is crossed one has to question why there has to be "absolute" or inflexible policies established in the first place?  clearly liberty sustains the pursuit of happiness for the most

frankly, when its 105°F heat index and you feel like you're playing in a dog's mouth, a cart is nice to drive in circles and get some evaporative cooling.. something definietley not needed muchabove the 40th parallel

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