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Jeff Fortson

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Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2002, 11:20:31 AM »
Cruden Bay's 15th and 16th.

Jeff F.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2002, 11:52:26 AM »
For those posting # 15 and # 16 at Cypress.

One would be hard pressed to match the setting, and
# 16 is a great par 3, but what makes # 15 so great  ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2002, 12:12:08 PM »
I may be treading into waters I regret here, but Patrick, I'd phrase the answer as a question to you:  what about #15 at Cypress is NOT great?

It's a difficult shot, especially to the newly-restored green with the back right part of the green back in place over the seawall... it's fantastically bunkered... the green has some darn interesting subtle rolls...the wind shifts as it swirls off the ocean against the trees behind...

Notice I've yet to mention the beauty, which is incomparable?

If that's not a great hole than really none is...

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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redanman

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2002, 12:17:17 PM »

Quote
For those posting # 15 and # 16 at Cypress.

One would be hard pressed to match the setting, and
# 16 is a great par 3, but what makes # 15 so great  ?

Could it be the California Coast Effect?? ?? ?? ?? ?? Couldn't resist that one, fellows.  I'm too weak.  8)  Fire away.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2002, 12:19:47 PM »
Ha!  That was to be expected.  Received and duly noted, redanman!   ;D

In this case, one need to be blind not to be "effected" though.  We are talking one of the most beautiful golf holes in the entire world, its state location nothwithstanding.

The fact it's a great golf hole besides the setting is the issue here, obviously.  I still say it is.  But I'm sure Patrick will correct me!   ;)

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
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redanman

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2002, 12:31:38 PM »
In all honesty, TH, I am not sure I can argue with 15-16 CPGC.  Just so you know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2002, 12:40:09 PM »
Aren't #'s 15 and 16 at Machrihanish both par 3's?  Pretty good, as I recall - erspecially #16.

Have to vote for #15 at Cypress as a darn good hole with or without the setting.  In fact, even with no wind it's a fine test.  It's certainly much better than #7 at Pebble on a calm day IMO.

Isn't the beauty and setting of a hole part and parcel with its "greatness"??  I'll bet an exact replica of the "shot values" of Cypress #16 (length, elevation change, green size/contours, etc.) in a landlocked manmade setting without the visual effect of the ocean would be, at the least, underwhelming.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Rick

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2002, 12:47:59 PM »
#6 and #7 at Cabo del Sol would top my list with the Ballybunion duo of #14 & #15 next.

Mind you, there would be a very, very long list of excellent back to back par 3's culled from the Robert Trent Jones Trail's short courses!  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2002, 12:49:53 PM »
redanman - oh, I fully understand that - even YOU can't deny the greatness of Cypress.  And just so you know, I am indeed coming to understand the "California coast" effect more and more as time goes on... Funny what experience does!

Chip - well said indeed.  I've always been one to say that denying the "setting" is taking away a vital element of any golf hole.  We don't play with our eyes closed... at least seeing-able golfers don't!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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redanman

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2002, 12:55:59 PM »

Quote
 


Chip - well said indeed.  I've always been one to say that denying the "setting" is taking away a vital element of any golf hole.  We don't play with our eyes closed... at least seeing-able golfers don't!

TH

Our own Tommy Paul admits that he has missed many an architectural detail whilst zoned into a competitive mode, so I disagree.  The view is just icing on the cake.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2002, 01:00:42 PM »
Didn't Bobby Jones say that tournament golf and golf are two totally different things?

I completely agree.

While I've never played at even close to the competitive level or in events remotely resembling those frequented by the Doyen, I too have gotten into "locked in" states in competitive play where it wouldn't have mattered if the Mona Lisa itself suddenly came to life beside a green - I was looking at how I'm gonna get the ball in the hole.

I'd venture to say that's not the issue here.

Assessing greatness of a golf hole is.

As a clear example, if I ever played 16 Cypress in competition, would I go for the green?  Pretty damn sure not... and if anything I'd be annoyed at how brutal the hazard is.  I'd completely miss the hole's greatness as I figured out how to get the lowest score possible, with highest percentage of success.

Does that diminish the hole's greatness or beauty?


Not for me.  It's two different issues.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2002, 01:25:06 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

No need to get nervous, it was just a question seeking information.   :)

I'd be curious to hear what others think about this hole.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2002, 01:29:53 PM »
Patrick - WHEW!  That sounded so leading....

I too am curious what others think about the hole.  Maybe I am so blow away by the beauty I overdo the shot values / design.  Could be.  I'd be sincerely interested in thoughts along those lines, if anyone has them!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_D._Bernhardt

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2002, 04:55:31 PM »
As noted in my original post on 15 and 16, 15 may be the most beautiful hole in the world. The tee location, the the ocean inlet that curves around and infront of the tee and separates one from the green, The afternoon downsun location, the backdrop, the colors in the alge, plants and the old growth cypress trees which frame the hole make this a home to the gods. The winds are generally crossing to slightly following and strong. The winds make the small green a difficult target. The green is set such that pin location makes for differentdifficult club selections and the traping is wonderful. The green and traps have been restored. the green back right area has been moved out to a position by the new sea wall. The walk to 16 is without question one of the grand strolls in all of golf. The tunnel of old growth cypress with the ocean peeking through is almost too much to take. Finally you are there at an opening to the 16 tee. And you wonder if it may even be better. But no, the serenity and finess of 15 beats the brute strength of 16. It is the one hole that I would play if I only had one hole left to play in life.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
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Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2002, 05:21:14 PM »

Quote
And then I started thinking about the odd routing or progression at Pacific Dunes's back nine, 3-3-5-4-3-5-4-3-5! Is there another course in the world that has only two par 4s on one nine?

The pre-(recent) remodel Ocean course at Olympic had a front nine that went 5-3-5-3-5-4-3-4-5.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

guest

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2002, 05:31:58 PM »
9 and 10 at quaker ridge. 9 is probably one of the 25 best par 3s in golf, though for some reason it is not on the radar screen for notable holes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Yancey_Beamer

Re: What are the best back to back par 3's
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2002, 11:00:19 AM »
Jeff,
Thanks for remembering Cruden Bay #15and #16.That whole sequence of holes along the beach with the cliff to the left is so extraordinary.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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