What are the best back to back par 3's

[Patrick_Mucci]

What are the best Back to back par 3's,
YOU'VE EVER PLAYED,
and WHY.

My vote goes to Newport, holes # 13 and # 14.

Hole # 13 plays uphill to a green pitched back to front, well bunkered, medium length.  One can come in aerially or along the ground, under the wind.

Hole # 14 plays downhill from a set of tees, one of which is but three steps out of the clubhouse.  The hole is long, and can be played aerially, or along the ground taking the right side turbo boost route.  The green is pitched right to left then flat, well protected including bunkers.

Two genuine par 3's back to back.

P.S.  Spring Brook in NJ had Back to back to back par 3's

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Its easy, Cypress Point 15 and 16. I love both holes and they only have the course in common. One is short (15)with uncommon natural beauty and tends to have a crossing wind. It may be the most beautiful hole in the world. #16 is a bear and one of the most famous holes in golf. It can be all you have into the constent and prevailing wind. Also a hole of great beauty and a grand scale that only a few in the world are able to put their best swing on the first time they play it. The two holes test the best a golfer brings to the course with him everytime.The walk between them through the old grove of cypress is one of the most memorable in golf also. You get all right there.

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

Aberdour GC, the "Cypress of Fife" (or is Cypress the "Aberdour of California?"  I forget....), starts with two par-3's, the first straight out to the edge of the Firth of Forth, with Edinburgh and St. Margaret's medieval abbey on Inchcolm Island in the distance, the second over an inlet of the Forth to a green set into a hillside covered with rhodedendrons.  It is not completely inconceivable that MacKenzie got the brainwave for 15 and 16 at Cypress not from Marion Hollins but from a visit to Aberdour, which he may well have played when designing nearby Pitreavie in Dunfermline.

[Gene Greco]

Cypress Point 15 and 16. Short thread.

[Paul Richards]

End of subject:

I agree.

Cypress #15 and #16.

Case closed!

[Matt_Ward]

Ditto John Bernhardt and Gene:

Cypress Point has two of the most beguiling and clearly different holes you can encounter. What John didn't mention is that #16 is just so beautiful you have a hard time actually "pulling the trigger."

[ChrisB (Guest)]

Of the courses I've played, Newport's 13th and 14th are the best, as already described by Patrick.  The added bonus in these two holes is the proximity of the clubhouse, which makes for a great setting.

Overseas I've played a couple of fine back-to-back par 3's, but in each case the first par 3 is a little strange (fun for me, but who knows what others would think)--Ballybunion's 14-15 and Cruden Bay's 14-15.

I guess one would expect most good back-to-back 3's to appear later in the routing, as the routing is forced back toward the clubhouse and a mix of 3's/4's/5's is not always possible.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Rich , will that be your future home course?

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

John

At the risk of incurring a two post penalty for improper chatting.....yes.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

lol Yes, but Mr. Guest may be at the nascar race right now. That is a great way to start a round.

[Mike_Cirba]

I wouldn't even try to contend with CP's duo, but Quaker Ridge has a super shortish par three ninth followed by a long, but fun par three tenth.  

[Bill_McBride]

In a modern yet classical sense, #10 and #11 at Pacific Dunes are great holes.  Especially when the wind is up!  

[Gib_Papazian]

On a Modern Course (as defined by GW), #10 & 11 at Pac Dunes are sublime. I wonder if this is the only case in America where due to seperate tees on #10, it is actually three par-3's in a row. Just a wierd thought. . . . . .

The back-to-back par-3's at #6 & 7 at Bodega Harbour (RT Jones, Jr.) are pretty good with a creative modified-Redan at #7.

I can think of a few obvious ones across the pond. . . . any suggestions? (For you provincial types, that means the side of the Atlantic with the "Valley of Sin.")

[Tom Doak]

Gib,

As I remember, one of those courses at Pelican Hill has back-to-back par-3's along the fence along the ocean, and one of them has two separate greens ... so that's closer to your description than Pacific Dunes is.

As far as overseas courses, the first one that comes to mind is West Sussex Golf Club, holes 5 and 6.  Also 14 & 15 at Ballybunion, though I've never been very fond of 14.

[Andy Levett (Guest)]

9 and 10 at Brancepeth Castle are pretty strong. The ninth was picked by Peter Alliss in a favourite 18 and apparently in an American magazine selecting the world's toughest 18. It plays 207 yds through a narrow chute of trees over a ravine to an angled green that's hard to hit and harder to hold. There's lots of benches dotted around above it for the golfing equivalent of old ladies sitting around the guillotine with their knitting watching the heads being tossed into the basket.
The tenth is 202 yards back over the ravine to a slightly more receptive green, with whatever wind there is posing a different challenge. The holes are probably a bit too similar to stand up in such exalted company. They are though the best back to back par 3s I've actually played.
I couldn't find any pix of the ninth but this, I think, is the tenth.

This is an overhead of the ninth:

...and the tenth:

[Brad Klein]

I still think Inwood has the best sequence, on the front nine: from 3rd hole, the sequence is 5-5-5-3-3.

Not the greatest pair of back-to-back par-3s, but certainly part of the most unusual stretch.

[Keith Williams]

I have never played there, but aren't there back to back par 3's right on the ocean down at Amelia Island?  Are they any good?

[TEPaul]

If something somewhere can even remotely compete with Cypress's #15 & #16, I've sure never heard of it.

Rich;

From GeoffShac's book on Cypress it appears that MacKenzie just had #16 Cypress stuck in his mind as a short par 4 for the longest time. The course had a couple of different "iterations" on the closing five holes for a long time before all the kinks got worked out. #16 either scared him as a possible par 3 or else maybe the idea of back to back par 3s did but apparently it really did take Marion Hollins to convince him of the possiblity of it playing as a par 3 if not the whole idea of it as a par 3, since it stayed as a par 4 so long into the project.

I look at #16 Cypress a bit like Crump and Colt on PVGC #5! Crump obviously just couldn't see that hole as that long, or maybe in that particular place, but clearly Colt convinced him otherwise, for which Crump always gave Colt the credit he was due on it. And that shot (a driver shot for Crump--with his favorite driver)--became the shot on the course that Crump loved to try the most and to get others to try it too!

It seems quite clear that Crump had a particular balance and variety scheme for Pine Valley (testing the spectrum of clubs on the four par 3s) and probably in very specific places before he even routed the course. Architecturally I would think this kind of 'preconception' would put a bit of a burden on any architect in that era.

One of the reasons he may not have seen the possibilities of #5 as such a long hole is he may have had in his head that super-long par 3 in or around the 14th hole. There is a classic "cape hole" sketched onto the original routing in the area of the present #14 and it's clearly a unbelievably risky carry right at the green of between 220-240yds over water! The other option plays about 300 around a fairway to the left not unlike Cypress's #16 the way MacKenzie might have been visualizing #16 before Marion Hollins convinced him to go with the high risk shot and tees that make Cypress's #16 so famous!

[Chris_Hunt]

Crail Balcomie springs to mind, with the uphill, blindish, long 13th (220+/-) followed by the drop shot 14th back towards the beach that is so well photographed at about 145 yards.  You fully realize the interest and difficulty presented by the wind when you hit the the same club on both holes.

Pix:

The 13th with its grassy bank.  A real bitch for ladies or lower trajectory hitters.

 
The 14th, with some fresh revets.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I'm having trouble just coming up with ANY course I've played that even HAS b-b par 3's.  Out of 241 courses, you'd think there were a few, but not off the top of my head.  I will be playing Pacific Dunes in a few weeks, so there will be at least one for sure.

[THuckaby2]

Concur with all of this, and it would indeed be a short thread if we had to just mention the best.  Cypress 15-16, no question.  These two might get strong mention for best back to back holes PERIOD.  But that's a different subject....

As for other back to back par 3's, I like Chris B's mention of 14-15 Cruden Bay.  Many complain about the blindness of both, but what the hell, you aren't at CB for tough but fair.  There is nothing quite like roping a 2iron over the post on 14 and wondering where it went... climbing up to see... oh hell, sure, there is a lot like it.  But it is one fun shot!  Then 15 is just a beasty hole, period.

10-11 at Pacific Dunes are indeed tough to beat - get ready, Scott!  Talk about fun... and different.... you'll see.....  

TH

[John_D._Bernhardt]

10 and 11 at Pacific do deserve note but i had forgotten about those two at Crail par 3's. Crail has as good a group of par 3's as any course in Scotland i have played.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

TE
I have always thought MacKenzie gave credit to Raynor and Hollins for #16, Hollins convincing Raynor it could be a spectacular par-3.

I don't think MacKenzie put much stock in the par designation of a hole and he seemed to like holes on the edge of par. I think that was a common attitude in Britian where medal play was the exception. Early on he listed #13 at ANGC as a par-4 and Pasatiempo originally had 7 par-5's and 5 par-3's - classic example of the land dictating the holes.

[TEPaul]

Tom MacW:

The way I read GeoffShac's book is Raynor mentioned to Marion Hollins that since the carry appeared to be too long to #16 green that therefore it was a pity that the green site could not be used. He also seems to say that the hole, although possibly visualized as a "do or die" shot that he still had the hole mentioned as a par 4, possibly because as that people would be less critical of it if the carry appeared to be too much.

[TEPaul]

Brad Klein's mention of the 5-5-5-3-3 progression at Inwood reminded me of Maidstone's 3-5-3-5-5 progression which is not quite as strange but close.

And then I started thinking about the odd routing or progression at Pacific Dunes's back nine, 3-3-5-4-3-5-4-3-5! Is there another course in the world that has only two par 4s on one nine?