Walton Heath - massive tree removal (photo tour)

[Scott Warren]

Thousands of trees have been removed at Walton Heath, with work still going on to pluck out most of the non-indigenous trees. The result is something I have never really seen on an inland course before. The feeling of space is extraordinary.

The sea of heather really stands out and while I can't comment on any comparison to previous turf quality, the tees, fairways and greens are the best I have seen and played on in the UK.

Timber plaques show where the 1981 Ryder Cup was played from. Interesting to note that most were even with the location of today's 6800yd white tees, a far cry from the 7400yd back markers of today!

The tee shot on the short par four 3rd. 235m to the front of the green from the white tees.


Some cool contourinbg right of the 3rd green that, according to an article in the clubhouse, is new. Ask Mark Chaplin how it plays!


The feeling of space is immense on the long par four 4th


Par four 5th tee shot - space aplenty


Downhill approach to the 5th, one of the most crazy greens I have ever seen


These contours short and left of the par three 7th are not visible from the tee. Great hole. Just to show I am not a prick, also ask Mark how the short right bunker plays!


Approach to the par four 9th


Approach to the par four 10th. How great is it to not have trees squeezing in?!


Par three 11th. 189yds to the centre. Only a fool would hit at that pin!


The wild surrounds of the short par four 12th


Space, glorious space, allowing the heather to star


The iconic heather clad links-style pot bunkering at the short par five 16th


The par three 17th. Easy hole, that!


Looking back across the property from the 18th fairway


The home tee shot

[Mark Chaplin]

Nice photos Scott you can just make out our balls on the 17th green shortly before they were despatched for 2s

The new slope off the right of the 3rd makes going for the green virtual suicide despite the holes extremely modest length, having been within  10 paces of the pin in one a 7 was easily made 

[Jamie Barber]

Looks great. Do you get much time for work in-between golf?

[Scott Warren]

I do make the occasional appearance in the newsroom!

[Kevin_Reilly]

Nice pictures.  One question...when balls run off a green like the one here:



does the ball run up against the thicker turf at the bottom of the run-off?  What sort of lie do you usually get for the next shot?

[Scott Warren]

Kevin,

The way it is cut, the ball gathers pace on the cut stuff and settles in the rough, making a putt up the hill more difficult to judge.

It's the way the runoffs at Deal on the 2nd and 4th are cut as well. Makes the recovery a right bastard!

[Tony_Muldoon]

Timber plaques show where the 1981 Ryder Cup was played from. Interesting to note that most were even with the location of today's 6800yd white tees, a far cry from the 7400yd back markers of today!

Scott the Ryder Cup was at the end of a week with torrential rain and several tees were moved up. The Club still plays them once a year. Walton Heath is mostly a clay based soil over a deep bank of gravel, so it drains well but the soil can still get rock hard or very occasionally soggy.

Nice pics of the Old course.  Who is the architect for the changes and for cryin out loud, why?

[David Stamm]

Absolutely. Freaking. Stunning. What a difference.

[Peter Pallotta]

Scott - thanks much for the pictures.

You see that guy in the tan-coloured pants and sweater with the blue shirt, carrying the Sunday bag? I want to be that guy. I'd say things like "Well, 'ello Guvnor!"...

Yes, when trees frame vistas instead of framing golf holes it really does make for an 'opening up'.

Peter

[Kevin Pallier]

Scott

Glad to see you enjoyed the 5th green - some interesting internal movements there - no ? 

[Sean_A]

Scott

Thanks for the pix.  I will have to make it back to Walton Heath soon - threatening is no longer acceptable bevaviour.  Looking at the bunkers reminds me why I think WH is one of the best bunkered courses in the land - I don't know why it doesn't get the recognition as such.  Marvelous. 

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

On the 3rd I was in the heather bank just short right of the pin, it being cut centre green 4 paces from the right edge. My pitch hit the top of the bank and run off into the gully and the thicker grass, trying to get close to the pin took 3 more efforts. It's a tough punishment but the green is large and the hole well under 300yds. Like the 12th leaving a fuller lob can be far more sensible than a 30 yarder. Take par and hope to fluke the putt, chase birdie and a big number can appear quite quickly.

WH is in for some massive changes, plans are apparently submitted to move the clubhouse to the area left of the tee on 16th Old. The current par 3 1st Old will go and the excellent short dog leg 12th will be straight with a par 3 to the old green making up the extra hole.

The only downside to WH is the M25 which the club of course could do nothing about, yesterday the conditions were such that the 8th and 9th Old were very noisy.

[Kevin Pallier]

WH is in for some massive changes, plans are apparently submitted to move the clubhouse to the area left of the tee on 16th Old. The current par 3 1st Old will go and the excellent short dog leg 12th will be straight with a par 3 to the old green making up the extra hole.

The only downside to WH is the M25 which the club of course could do nothing about, yesterday the conditions were such that the 8th and 9th Old were very noisy.

Mark

Interesting dvelopments  - I dont think they'll lose too much with the move though. The 1st isn't anything special and the clubhouse + parking is cramped to say the least. I presumed Mr Ray's shack will be moved too ?

The ambience of WH is certainly diminished down in that back corner - it's a pity - as some of the holes down there are absolute crackers.

[Scott Warren]

Mark,

Fourball partner or not, it was hysterical watching that ball almost-but-not-quite get over the top of the hill before rolling back almost inch-perfect to where it began. Three times.

Re: the noise at 8 and 9. When it first hit me I looked skyward to see where the air force jet was. It was that loud!

[James Boon]

Scott,

Thanks for the pictures. Regarding the tree removal, the only time I played the Old course, back in 2001 I think, I remember it looking pretty much as your photos? Very open and lots of heather? My memory could be playing tricks on me though?

Mark,

Interesting to hear the plans to move the clubhouse and omit the current 1st. Any idea who have they are using to design the new arrangement around the current 12th?

Crossing the road after the first isnt really ideal. During the Ryder Cup in 1981 a composite course was used, and they apparently used the 18th on the New course. See this link from an old thread regarding the subject:
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,16923.msg295773.html#msg295773

Mark Rowlinson posts at the bottom as follows:

"As far as I can tell from Peter Dobereiner's account of it:

1. 2nd Old
2. 4th Old played from a tee behind 3rd green Old as a par 5
3. 5th Old
4. 6th Old
5. 7th Old
6. 8th Old
7. 9th Old
8. 10th Old
9. 11th Old
10. 12th Old
11. 13th Old
12. 12th New
13. 13th New
14. 14th Old played as a par 4
15. 15th Old
16. 16th Old played as a par 4
17. 17th Old
18. 18th New"

They also used a composite course when the European Open was held there in the early 90s, though I'm not sure if it was the same as that used for the Ryder Cup?

Cheers,

James

[Dan Boerger]

Wow ... thanks for the pics. Played WH Old this past spring and (as always) really enjoyed it. The wind was up that day, so even some of the shorter holes played longer. I can still clearly see my tee shot on 17 being swatted into the bunker as my prayers and chanting went unanswered.

[John Mayhugh]

Bob Jenkins and I are currently booked to play The Addington on the Friday of Buda week. 

One of the other locations we considered was Walton Heath, and this photo tour is certainly appealling.  I was interested in The Addington because it seems to have a very unique collection of holes and Abercromby's work is pretty rare.

For those that have played both, which would you recommend? Why?

[Scott Warren]

If you were keen, you could easily play both in a day. Around Croydon where The Addington is can be busy traffic-wise in the mornings and evenings, so I'd play WH Old at first light as a two-ball, then it's a half-hour drive to The Add in the middle of the day.

Of course, time-wise and money-wise that's probably not an option for most.

The Add has a better set of par threes, some amazing holes that break every rule in the book and is on an incredible block of dirt. It is quite unique, IMO.

WH Old is a more cohesive course with some great angles and better variety in its par fours and fives.

Either way you are in for an amazing day's golf. WH Old is a "better" course, but you will see things at The Addington that you are unlikely to see anywhere else.

Playing them matchplay against each other, I score Walton Heath a 2&1 winner, but on some of the holes The Addington lost, it had its ball in its pocket before the drives were hit. It has lower lows, for sure.

[Mark Chaplin]

John - a day at WH playing Old and New with a good lunch is as good as it gets. i've played the New 2 or 3 times this year and yesterday was my first round on the Old in 2009. It's one of those rare clubs where you play the "second" course and don't feel cheated as you want to be on the real thing, Woodhall Spa being the biggest example. I like the variation in par 3 lengths on the New and there are some cracking holes around the turn.

I like both but haven't played The A since it became a pay and play, personally go for WH as it has 2 top 100 UK courses and history galore

James - you memory is playing massive tricks, there is barely a silver birch on the course now - our host hit the only one of the 16th yesterday.

Scott - you wouldn't have been laughing so much on the 3rd if you hadn't been waiting over a 10' birdie putt while I was fannying about!!

[Mark Bourgeois]

Scott

Thanks for the pics. Mark I will have to echo James albeit on a shorter time frame. I've played the Old or New annually for the last few years and don't see anything dramatically new.

Didn't the real clearing occur a number of years ago?  I say this because I believe there is some debate as to whether Woking or WH was first to the post for heather regen, and Woking's began about 3 years ago.

You are correct however in regard to current changes -- those indeed will be significant.  Interesting to compare openers at the Old and Addington.  To me Addy is the more striking of the two, the Old played across average ground, and yet I think I prefer the Old's. A better challenge given the length, not to mention proximity to entrance drive!

John M, I definitely would play the Old before the Addington. Add in the possibility of playing the New, an excellent course, the same day and the choice is made easier still.  Aber may not have designed many courses, but if your main criterion is cult architects then the New offers Tippet.

I will add that WH surely offers history in more dimensions than any club in existence.  In addition to its place among inland and urban courses, it is a place that sustained a bankrupt Fowler, where the likes of Churchill and Balfour played ("...for the premiership"), and developed a rich tournament history.  The history of its pros and pro shop alone probably makes for history perhaps unchallenged by any save the mighty Ganton.

Mark

[Brent Hutto]

I had the impression in June, 2006 that numerous trees had been recently cleared away all around the Walton Heath property. A day of both courses (with lunch) at Walton Heath was my first experience with golf outside the USA and I remember it fondly. Made more enjoyable of course by the very compatible company of Mssrs. Disher and Muldoon.

If forced to choose I'd have to say the New course would be my favorite of the two but on another day I may choose the Old by an equally narrow margin. Not many 36-hole clubs match the Walton Heath experience in my book. Lunch was excellent. The local beer, too.

[Mark Chaplin]

The clearance is still in progress his year the left of the 6th Old has been dramatically cleared and the chute to the back back tee on 8th is no longer. The big difference is across the holes which is less clear in photographs that tend to look down the holes. One thing that impresses me with the club is the serious manner in which the treat their stewardship of the heath, the club spend a lot of money they do not have to spend to keep the heath in balance.

I know the club again decided not to apply for Royal status in their centenary year but WH is far more Royal than a good many Royal clubs!

[Tony_Muldoon]

It’s like looking at two fine wines on the shelf, if I choose that one then I miss out on this one…

My vote is for The Addington.  I’ve had approx 5 days at each and I have the private feeling that a year without playing The Addington is lacking something.

If we compare the first at each well yes I prefer the Old, but what if it was played as designed a short 4 across the access road (the tee is still there)? Then it flops back to the Addington and often it’s that close.

Niall of these parts told me that at Silloth they do matchplay with a twist.  Winning the holes with a birdie counts double and an eagle counts triple. That’s the spirit you need when ranking The Addington.  At its best it’s awesome. The 13th “the greatest inland Par 3 outside Pine Valley”?  The sixteenth at WH is great but the 16th at The Addington is…worth two holes in any matchplay comparison.

Finally I've realised my personal tastes, other things being equal, will tend to favour the more undulating site.  That’s they way it plays here. Enjoy your choice.


Mark Iwas first made aware of the tree removal being well underway was in 2005, but it has continued in a lesser way since. Darwin distinguished between the true Heath course and the Pine and Birch ones.  Walton Heath was the former but Woking was the later.

[James Boon]

James - you memory is playing massive tricks, there is barely a silver birch on the course now - our host hit the only one of the 16th yesterday.

Mark,

Great, I've lost my mind already, ignore any future posts of mine 

But honestly, I maybe forget a lot of the silver birch, or maybe it was fairly young when I played and grew up in that time as it does grow damn quick, but I still remember plenty of heather, and I certainly remember the damn noise of the M25 at the far end. Regradless, its good to see any heathland course keeping the birch to a minimum and encouraging the heather.

Cheers,

James

[KBanks]

Scott,

Thanks for the excellent photos of a course I've always wanted to see. A dear friend of my family was the first American winner of the British Senior Amateur, and he won at Walton Heath.

What a wonderful looking place.

Ken