[George Pazin]

officially starts tomorrow (Wed., 9/2), but since there has already been some back and forth, I thought I'd get a jump on it this afternoon.

I will try to bring over some of the exchange, hopefully it won't be too confusing.

[George Pazin]

From the other thread, Jeff's initial foray. (Note: It is all Jeff, I just moved it out of the quote because I thought it was easier to read that way)

"You look like you're shooting 70 but you're shooting 90. I look like I'm shooting 90, but I'm shooting 70" - Pete Dye

As to getting into golf course design, "I was born a poor black child......."  No, just kidding. Sorry for the old movie reference......Cue the song....."Memories......of the way we weeeeerreeeee!"


My next door neighbors belonged to Medinah.  We snuck out there on a Monday, so my first round of golf was Medinah No. 3, a US Open course.  I fell in love with golf courses that day, and the ambiance of the club.  At age 12, no less. I went home and told my parents I was going to be a golf course architect!  Prior to that I had thought I would be a building architect (or as my Dad always called it, a "regular architect." When I asked him if I was an "irregular architect" he said, "No that comes later in life......" (rimshot!)  At about the time I took up golf, he had been bringing me home architecture books from his Saturday trips to the library.  One was on lawsuits against architects for boiler explosions and the like.  In addiiton to being impressed with the ambiance of Medinah, I began thinking that golf courses don't blow up.......

Actually, my ASGCA ties go back to that period.  Dad noticed in the Trib that the ASGCA had just moved its HQ from Wash DC to Chicago and sent for all the info they had, including some from NGF on golf course design.  One day, he came home with an envelope containing perhaps 20 phamplets and the booklet "Planning and Building the Golf Course" by the NGF. And the ASGCA roster.  I wrote RTJ and got a nice letter back.  I also wrote Killian and Nugent (being somewhat surprised to see a member in the next town over) and went in for an "interview" where they told me the basic plan to become a gca - summer jobs for landscape companies and golf courses, pursue and excel in landscape architecture, supplmented with turf classes, soils classes, surveying and site engineering.

I did all that and they felt obligated to hire me when I graduated in 1977.  I felt badly because Jim Blaukovitch was let go, although they had agreed he was going to go back to the Philly area where he was raised.  I worked there until the split up in 1983 and spent the next nine months working for Ken Killian, mostly because I was mostly working with him on projects at the time.  (Nugent thought I was too much of a smart ass, I think.....)  I didn't like it too much.  At the same time, we were working with Bill Kubly in a very much smaller Landscapes Unlimited.  It didn't escape my attention that he was six years older than I and had been in business.....six years.  I walked in to Ken Killian's office on my 29th birthday and quit.  To avoid competing with him, get in what I thought was the "hotspot" of golf design (and access a southern central connecting airport) I picked DFW to base my practice out of.  My market reseach consisted of looking in the yellow pages of several big city phone books (again at my local library) and seeing that Dallas was the only one without a golf architect listed.   Dallas, here we come!

I made a side trip home from the ASGCA meeting that year in Palm Springs, and picked out an office and apartment in a weekend.  I went home, got married and moved back down to Dallas within a few months.  I got my first job, again with some help from Mr. Kubly, who let me route a nine hole course extension in Holdrege, NB that he was going to build. I did it on my parents kitchen table, having already vacated my apartment. 

Later, he helped again by introducing me to a few Dallas folks at Eastern Hills in Garland, TX, east of Dallas.  My second clients were Wichita Falls CC and then the city of Wichita Falls who came by when we were working at the club.  I was on my way!  Within a few months, I got a call from a club near Shreveport, LA and the head of the selection committee was in the same boat I was, but in irrigation construction.  He took pity on me, and realized that a struggling associate probably did a lot of the work of a bigger firm and hired me.

In quick succession, I got a similar call from Odessa, TX and when they heard I had worked on Misson CC for KN, they hired me for the skill, proximity, and of course, lower fee.  About the same time, I was getting some photos printed, and ran into a local land planner, who told me a local city was doing an interview.  I got that job by pushing my public course experience when some of the bigger known firms pushed their "best work" rather than their public work.

A year later, I was slowing down, napping a bit I think, when the phone rang and it was Larry Nelson's Dallas based agent, trying to save a long distance phone call and get some info on Larry working with a gca.  I didn't let him get too far down the list......and in 1987 Brookstone in Atlanta opened.  It took until 1989 to secure a DFW 18 hole course, given how provincial Texans can be.

At the moment, I think I have designed 51 courses, although that includes 9 hole extensions, executive courses, etc.  But, more than half are new 18 hole courses.  I have done about twice as many remodels of various sizes and types, but less than 10 full blow outs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fast forward to today, and current projects include Firekeeper in Mayetta, KS which is heading towards grassing next week and some smaller stuff:

- Prelim design and grading for a housing project in the Midwest.  It stopped last year and is trying to get back off the ground.
- Two master plans starting next month,
-  A new/better short game area for my course in Newton, KS, because they are going after the national Publinx Championship. 
- A prelim study for a Britsh gent who is trying to buy a golf course here in Texas.  Right now, we are trying to give him an idea of just how much renovation would be necessary, and what he would accomplish golf and housing wise with various options, but I think/hope it will turn into actual construction.  I have done a few of these.  Seems like this "British Invasion" is a bit more golfy and a lot less musical than the one in 1964......
- I also have two consulting gigs, both focused on some damage assessments from some public utility "takings" from the golf course land.

I agreed to do this in part because on Monday I will have the kind of field day most associate with a gca since Firekeeper has many operations going on now - I will be marking grass lines and bunker edges, and approving shaping on the last few holes.  On Tuesday, Notah will be there, so I presume I will be at the (media) circus that day.  And then on Wed, I have breakfast with a supplier selling me the latest whatever before coming back to work on one or more of the projects listed above, not to mention that my Golf Industry Magazine column will be due the next day.

As I understand George's intentions with this, I gather I will post periodically through the day, perhaps starting Tuesday night upon my return from KS on the first two days.  At the same time, I guess you can all ask questions as we go.

My pig has been guineaed!

[George Pazin]

From Bill McBride: (editor's note: a good friend and hopefully a soon participant in a day of his own...)

Jeff, I couldn't help thinking what a lucky guy you were to have a dad like yours.

Most dads:  "You want to be a what?"

Your dad:  "Oh yeah, here's a bunch of stuff from that ASGCA bunch.  Here's to a great career."

Jeff's response:

Bill,

I still recall him ( a life long Campbell Soup exec) also mentioning as I announced going to landscape architecture school at U of Illinois that I should follow a career "where I would use my brain....." so he had his doubts, too!

Of course, to him and Mom, it was me studying to be a landscaper.....I still tell any kid interested in golf design that the first test is to not get talked out of it by those nearest him......

[George Pazin]

Scott Warren:

Great read Jeff. Thanks. Your dad's comment above sounds a bit like my dad when I said I was going to be a journalist: "Well don't go thinking I'll be paying for some f**king bullshit arts degree!".

Jeff:

Scott,

I took my daughter to NYC this summer to see an open house for the American Univ. in Paris, which she has some interest in attending.  Natch, its a top 10 most expensive school in the world......but I tried to keep an open mind.

On the flight there, she mentions that she thinks she wants to change her proposed major from languages (not great job prospects anyway) to "film study." Yeah, $85K a year for film study was not my idea of a good investment, so the tide has turned.  At least I can look back and say that I provided for my family for 25 years in using my college degree.

Only slightly OT, but I further dissapointed Dad in turning down an invite to Harvard after my Bachelors in LA to go into golf courses.  I had won the ASLA senior award of merit, which got an automatic invite.  He couldn't quite see the golf thing and he really couldn't see turning down a scholarship to the most prestigious university around.......JUST to design golf courses!

Playing golf with Lou Duran and Craig Edmand last week, I commented on Dad's reluctance as a WWII vet (flew off the Lexington) and lifer at a major corporation for me to start a small business.  But, as it turned out, about the time I started (1984) many, many corporations began loosening that "lifetime bond" that they once had with their employees during the great years of the 1950-1970 era when the US controlled about 80% of the worlds industrial capacity.  The job exodus had begun and as it turned out, my little job was much more stable than if I had become some kind of desk jockey at a big corp.  At least, that is how I have it rationalized......

He also said, "They will always need food in the next big depression, but they won't need golf."  I may find that to be true here in the next few years, but even if I do, I had a hell of a run.

[George Pazin]

Bart Bradley:

Jeff:

What do you enjoy away from golf?

If you weren't an architect (golf or otherwise), what would you do for a living?

How often do you play golf?  Do you play a draw or a fade?

What is the best hole you have ever designed?  Why?

What is the most creative solution for a problem you've encountered in your design projects?

How did you get started posting on GCA?

What is the single book on golf course architecture you would recommend, if asked?

Ginger or MaryAnn?

Jeff:

Tell us some architects or courses you really admire and why???  The more obscure the better....
Golden Age, it’s the Good Doctor. Modern, I Strantz and Smyers, probably in reverse order listed.  I like the artistry of golf course architecture as much as the strategy.  Steve seems to mix it in the best blend to me, as MS went too far over the top to make great golf, but does show us what can be accomplished thinking outside the box.

Who was the best client you ever worked for???
I have had several.  The best were those who gave me general direction and let me go.  Among them were all my courses in Minnesota, which may explain the results.  I also fondly recall several clients with whom I developed a great “synergy” rather than just work together.  Usually, the good clients have that as well.
What do you enjoy away from golf?
Model railroading and Dallas Stars hockey.

If you weren't an architect (golf or otherwise), what would you do for a living?
I would be designing something, perhaps being an urban planner.  I have a strong design personality according to those nosy tests.

How often do you play golf?  Do you play a draw or a fade?
It varies.  This year I played 7 times at my ASGCA meeting, 3 times on my trip to MN for GolfWeek, and about ten times here at home.  I generally fade the ball, and as I age, I tend to fade at about the 14th hole in more general terms.  

What is the best hole you have ever designed?  Why?
I like the short par 4 holes at the Quarry all about equally well.  I especially like the sixth and ninth because they are so different than what I normally do. I used the scarred land that was there and made it into something.

What is the most creative solution for a problem you've encountered in your design projects?
I have described this here before, but the drainage at Wild Wing Plantation is probably tops.  Willard Byrd had done the first two courses, and had invested about 400,000 CY of fill to raise fairways for drainage.  I opted to use a system of linear lakes, connection pipes, and drain basins to build the Avocet course closer to grade.  Thus, for my 475,000 CY earthmoving budget, I was able to get the client more “fru fru” which was his major design objective to distinguish his third course from his first two.
Did you have any doubt that my answer would contain the words “catch basin?”

How did you get started posting on GCA?
Ron Whitten told me about it in 2000.  He had just done his interview where he used profanity and got called on the carpet at Golf Digest for it.  I checked in to defend him, I think.  The rest is history.  I think I quickly posted some kind of design challenge, which one poster answered something like “Oh no, you aren’t getting me to commit to putting my ideas out there!”  That sort of told me what I was dealing with. I see many of the professional golf course architects who start posting sort of start with the same idea I did – sort of let people know what you know.  They and I soon find out that posting here is like giving a presentation at a country club – In general, everyone in the house is pretty convinced they know more than the golf course architect.

What is the single book on golf course architecture you would recommend, if asked?
I have read them all, many two or three times.  My personal favorite is still George Thomas’ book, “Golf Architecture in America.”  I say that because he offered some real specifics that I still use.  One I have commented on is the use of a fairway chipping are behind the green on long par 4 holes, because a near miss over on a long iron approach should get a better result than a shot that comes up short.  He also advocated shaping greens to assist shots.  In particular, he (and I) favor narrower greens on downwind holes (wind straightens shots) and wider ones into the wind, where any curved shot is magnified.
That sort of codified some of the thought processes that various tour pros were trying to express – there are some physics going on with the golf shot that are difficult to overcome.  Sizing and shaping features to accommodate makes the game a lot more enjoyable, compared to a design where the greens size, fairway width, whatever, is designed without any regard to the shots to be played.  That is a big part of my designs because for all Killian and Nugent’s golf course architecture skill, they were sort of typical of that period of golf course architecture in not really considering how the top players played the game.

Ginger or MaryAnn?
Not a Gilligan’s fan. I’ll go with Mary Tyler Moore in Capri pants!  Oh, Rob!

-----
(Editor's Note: My mom was a dead ringer for MTM circa Dick Van Dyke show back in the 70s...not hard to see why Dad married her!)

[George Pazin]

Jeff's preview/intro:

I know its supposed to be a one day thing, but I figured I would post  a summary of today, since its the kind of site visit most of you probably think of when dreaming of being a gca.

I seem to be chronically behind in work. I spent Saturday getting my daughter ready for college, so I spent Sunday getting out a report for a client, then had a dinner party.  As a result, I took the 10PM flight to KC, arriving around midnight.  I had a beer on the plane to make sure I was sleepy. I got up and decided to take the "backroads" short cut from KCI to Mayetta.  Using the turnpike might be faster, but its 40 miles longer.  Of course, I got on the phone and missed the turn,heading north to Athcison, so it wasn't much of a shortcut, but I did see some trains and grain elevators, and I like seeing old towns anyway, so it was a half an hour not wasted.

I got on site, and no one was in the trailer, but I found the lead shaper just down the 12th fw so I went to talk to him.  He had spent the last week pushing topsoil in preparation for grassing which actually began today, so there weren't really any greens to look at shaping wise.  He had cleared the weeds on the 14th fw so I could take a look.

In essesnce there are a few questions on 14 - there is a small hill between tee and LZ and there is a wetlands at about 310 from the championship tee as I have layed it out.  The problem is, I think into the wind its fine, because only a few players will even have to lay up.  But Notah has it in his head that you should definitely hit driver and wants the tee moved up so there is an option to clear the creek, which we can't touch, and which is blind because of the hiill.  I am not a big fan of the forced carry option and we have an option carry fw on 18 anyway.  We will let him look at that tomorrow.

The other idea NBIII had was a Biaritz green on 13.  I actually drew a different plan, mostly because we have a strict limit on green quantities and I wasn't sure I wanted to invest 9000 or so SF in one green.  And, as it happens, when they pushed the fill up for that green, they just happened to do it in a very natural way.  It seems a shame to box it off for a rectangular biartiz/  I called Notah about it but he never returned that call, so we will see tomorrow.

I think I am flunking minimalism 101 here.  The general plan was to follow natural grades in most fw, with 11, 3, and 4 needing some big cuts.  However, the shapers kept suggesting enhancments and I allowed them.  I really do think they are better.  For example, on 12, where I went out to first, they had rouged in a fw bunker.  Its a DL left with scattered trees and we put a target bunker out on the outside of the DL to turn it visually, since we had trees left.  The rough push came out wider than fit my eye, so I had them shorten the bunker but keep the fill, envisioning the fw line running up the gentle rise and being more visible.  If a hole dog legs left, 99% of the time, is just better to raise the right edge of the fw to make it look right.

I think the big wigs at LUI (the contractor) have made some noise about the extra shaping not really in the budget, but as I told them, your guys are offering, and I am taking!  If the prom queen offers me sex, I'm taking it!  (or would when I was back in HS)

After looking at the bit of shaping that was done, I marked grass lines on holes 2-5 and marked bunker edges on a few holes.  I like to do every one of those, although the bunker crew has redone some of them at Sand Hills and I think I can give them some freedome.  Right now, they aren't coming out quite as chunky as the SH bunkers, but they look fine.

I used the truck to mark grass lines, with the project foreman running the spray can from the other side.  I find that walking and spraying leads to too sharp a curve.  Driving at 10-15 MPH allows the curves to fit the landscape, and we know mowers can negotiate later.  As with bunkers, I mark, go back and look from the tees or LZ and then mark again.  I usually end up using three colors with orange being the final color for them to follow.

Sand is going in bunkers and the first sod was laid around 4 green. That green is on a long par 5, where there is an option to drive over a 25 ft deep bunker to shorten the hole a bit, a la No. 4 at Royal St George.  On the second, there are two fw, separated by a pair of bunkers.  The upper fw rolls dowhill on to the green, which is loosely modeled after 11 at LACC.

I wiill answer emails here in a minute, shower and go to dinner with the boys and NBIII (if he gets here early enough)  Tomorrow is more for show and some comments for Notah.  More then.

[George Pazin]

From Garland

Jeff,

How many centerline bunkers will you have?
How many randomly spaced pots?
How many fall away greens?
How many blind tee shots and approaches?
What will the bunkers look like? Will Bogey criticize them for having the ragged natural look, or will he praise them for being bath tubs like at ANGC?
How is the course with regards to green to tee walks?
Did you offer to reduce your fee if they will forgo cart paths and emphasize walking?
How many environmental hurdles did you have to jump?
Will there be an irrigtion pond, and will it be in play?
Will there be a set of tees at 5192 so Matt Ward can be assured that I can play the place without sending balls all over the property?
Will Adam Clayman want to play a GRUDGE MATCH against Anthony Gray there? (Anthony's easy, you need to attract Adam.)
Will Rob Rigg want to give you the double green light on TheWalkingGolfer.com?
Will John Kirk enjoy watching the ball bounce and roll on the contours?
Will there be enough wind to get Patrick Mucci to leave his nurse and play? (As opposed to staying with his nurse and playing.)
Will the Sandman be able to escape your bunkers?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I have about ten minutes at KCI before boarding.  Notah got in late last night, so no dinner but we got out bright and early and walked or drove the entire course. I told him that he after today, he had made at least five and maybe 7 of the top ten design comments I have ever heard from a Tour Pro.  He is very articlulate and understands design.  As Ron Whitten wrote in GD last month, Notah actuallhy graduated from Stanford.

My favorite comment - "We don't want to reward anyone for playing like a pansy."  In terms of actual design tweaks, he asked them to remove the sod on the fourth hole fw bunker (which astute readers will recall was modeled after the deep fw bunker on 4 at Royal St George and said I was too conservative in leaving the sand at the bottom of the bunker for practical reasons.  "If we are going to do it, lets do it and pull that sand up the slope as far as you are comfortable, and then go up a few more feet.......twice!

He was also very concerned about matching par 3 shot requirements to hole length.  We shortened two par threes because he thought they were just a wee bit too tough for the shot.  16 came out over 200 (I had thought we moved the back tee pole) and he said the shot was for a five iron and it was a ybrid.

Just announced boarding, willl type my full field notes on the plan and post them late tonight or tomorrw.

[Jeff_Brauer]

To answer George's questions before I sleep:

How many centerline bunkers will you have?

The 2nd hole has one and a bunch of them scattered sort of randomly like bomb craters. If they name the holes they are considering calling it the battlefield, presuming those are cannon blasts, I suppose,

How many randomly spaced pots?

See above.

How many fall away greens?

I actually considered them on three fall away green sites. None made the final cut, given the directive to not make this thing too hard.  My favorite green on a fall away site is the 12th, loosely modeled after the dust pan green at Pittsburg Field Club.  While the front has a catchers mitt look, the back is narrow and falls away on each side, even though it faces the golfer slightly. I thought NB might nix this green, or widen out the back but he seemed to like it.

How many blind tee shots and approaches?

The 4th is a blind tee shot.  14 may be blind but we decided to move it left for visibility.

What will the bunkers look like? Will Bogey criticize them for having the ragged natural look, or will he praise them for being bath tubs like at ANGC?

A bunker crew from Sand Hills was originally scheduled here, but things changed, so no real chunk bunkers, but the edges are somewhat jaggedy, just not quite as much as SH.

How is the course with regards to green to tee walks?

They are very close together.  Probably the longest occur on the first two holes, where to reach the natural tee locations, the center of green to nearest point of tee is probably 300'.  After that, center to center distance doesn't exceed 200'.  By modern standards, its almost as tight as you can get.  Very walkable.
 
Did you offer to reduce your fee if they will forgo cart paths and emphasize walking?

I didn't.  They didn't even consider it, more than briefly anyway. 

How many environmental hurdles did you have to jump?

We got a no impacts permit, but it still took the 90 day permit period.  Had all the land on the course been "in trust" we could have gone without permits, but some wasn't, which means that Fed law prevailed.  The wetlands are mostly stream channels.  Holes 8 and 14 are situated so that the stream crosses over 300 yards from the back tee.  Holes 7 and 10 have a creek in front of the green, and holes 1,9, 10, 14 and 16 have creeks cross right in front of the tee out of play.  Hole 18 has two fw - one you can hit about 265 to lay up and the other you have to carry 265 to carry, but which shortens the hole.

We did a historic survey but nothing happened there until now.....
 
Will there be an irrigtion pond, and will it be in play?

The irrigation pond sits by 15 tee but I shortened it so it is NOT in play.  There is some science that goes into location of a pond - it must be close to the wells (we have two, but both have to be located in the SE corner, because that is where they are productive) near electric (in highway 150, also on the SE corner) and we couldn't build it on stream because that would be a wetland impact.  So, its in the SE corner but not in play.

Will there be a set of tees at 5192 so Matt Ward can be assured that I can play the place without sending balls all over the property?

I asked them to remeasure the holes today. NB saw some par 3's he thought were too long with his range finder.  The plan goal was 7450-6850-6350-5850-4900 but we have moved things around quite a bit and I think those have changed.  I have written about those yardages before and why I like them - they correspond statistically with yardages various groups like to play.  A few would say the bottom two should be shorter yet.
Will Adam Clayman want to play a GRUDGE MATCH against Anthony Gray there? (Anthony's easy, you need to attract Adam.)

Will Rob Rigg want to give you the double green light on TheWalkingGolfer.com?

See above.

Will John Kirk enjoy watching the ball bounce and roll on the contours?

The site is gently rolling and the fw will be bent.  I think there are some good options for the ground game.  NB added one - on the 540 11th, I had added a pot to narrow up the opening, and he took it right back out, saying that he woudn't try to reach in two with that narrow an opening.  We had an interesting discussion - for all the talk of making stuff hard for pros, he relays that on any given week, only a few (and those are the ones we see on TV) are really playing that well to where they try and pull of great shots.  In designing even for the average game of tour pros, it doesn't need to be that tough.

Will there be enough wind to get Patrick Mucci to leave his nurse and play? (As opposed to staying with his nurse and playing.)

KS can get some  pretty stout winds.  It was snappy today, for instance.

Will the Sandman be able to escape your bunkers?

The are generally shallow.  The goal was not to beat golfers up.  My course at Colbert Hills already does that, and their business study specifically wanted to place this course as easier in the minds of golfers to drum up the most business.  Personally, seeing the course, and hearing they are considering greens fees as low as $35-$49, I think it will be very popular in Topeka and further.

That said, NB requested deeper green side bunkers on the driveable 17th, while taking out the other fw bunkers so it would play drop dead easy except if driving the green.  I wasn't fond of those changes. I understand the concept, but the hole is somewhat visually blah compared to some others as a result of bunker removal.  But, holes 12-15 are pretty stout and hard and he wanted bigger breaks at 16-17 in addtion to the break you get if you can carry the shortcut on 18.

I was a bit surprised at the effort NB put into the slopes of the bunker.  In one case, he wanted a down hill slope to make the recovery a bit more difficult.  On 17, he wanted up hill slopes more dramatic than they were.  In his mind, an uphill slope signals to the golfer that its an easier recovery and makes it a more tempting bunker.  I am not quite sure the average golfer figures bunker slope into his tee shot strategy to that degree, but its an intersting perspective on design that I wouldn't have thought of quite that way.

More tomorrow.  For the three avid readers of this thread, I have a breakfast meeting, then a doctors appt.  It may be 11AM before I get back to answering any questions......if there are questions.

[Sean_A]

Jeff

Forget golf questions.  How did you get into hockey?  How did you come to support Dallas or was it simply a matter of following the Stars - tee hee? 

OK, a few golf questions for now. 

I found NB's comment about uphill bunkers interesting and one that registers the same for me.  I am generally not afraid of fronting bunkers unless they are very deep because they tend to be uphill and therefore easier recoveries imo.  How deep are you willing to go with your bunkers?

Could you better explain the situation with the down-sloping bunker that NB mentioned? 

Ciao

[Brian Phillips]

Jeff,

How good is TOC in your eyes and why? Be honest...

Have you ever felt like quitting?

How proud are you to see other young architects making it after your encouragement?

When is there going to be another Archipalooza?

How does/did being an Architect affect your family life? (we all know you are divorced)

Cheers,

Brian

[Jeff_Brauer]

The phone books are here! The phone books are here! This is the kind of publicity that can really jump start a career! 

Shiv,

Not really a BP kinda guy either, for some reason.  I haven't been to Wilmette in years. I do recall that as a senior in LA, they offered a position in the parks dept. that would have included some potential redesign of the course and chance for advancement to the head of the Parks District. I was tempted to get one op to design a course but didn't get the job.

Sean,

I had gone to Australia in Nov 1993 for a golf tour and some speeches.  When I got off the plane, my then 3 year old son said "We have to go to a Stars game, Dad!" They had just relocated from MSP, and his Godfather (a Detroit native and Wings fan) got tickets to a Wings-Stars game and took him.  When I took him a few weeks later, it reminded me of how many Hawks games I watched on old WGN as a kid.  We bought a few single tickets, but always had to pay for lower bowl tickets which were a bit rich for me, given he would fall asleep a few times and went mainly for the skittles.  For the playoffs, I bought a strip of tickets in the first row of the upper deck and have kept them ever since - no one can block your view for $31 per seat.  Actually, last year, we moved down to the top row of the lower deck, in a spot where no one can block my view.  They lowerd the price this year, so for $56 per game I can handle it.

I did once take a golf lesson from Stan Mikita at Kemper Lakes.  I never played, though, other than some street hockey.  Dad couldn't/wouldn't pay for hockey equipment either, so I took a stick to the shins one day and it was pretty much a career ending injury!

Brian,

I love TOC and NGLA.  I do understand those who say they are museum pieces from a different era that can't be built again for reasons of golf moving on.  I take certain lessons from them, but don't think rebuilding TOC in exact replica would be a good idea.  Now, the road hole (perhaps on a par 5 as originally placed), valley of sin where the valley replaces a sand bunker, the principles nose bunkers (moved down the fw) the little mound in front of 4 green and a few other ideas still work in altered form 500 years later.

I am proud of the guys who follow me.  Trey Kemp who posts here is an employee of John Colligan, who worked for me a dozen years or so, and now he is the second generation of Brauer trained guys, and the third in the Killian and Nugent line, fourth in the RBHarris line.  Time marches on.  Jeff Blume worked for me and he is doing some good things as well.  He posted here briefly.  Of course, I still need to compete against these guys so I won't get too mushy about all of it.  As to whatever help I can give anyone else, I am always glad to do it.  An ASGCA member emailed the other day asking some advice on some specs and I gladly gave mine to him.  I still do a lot of work which I think helps gca's of all types via ASGCA, having helped write the GCBAA standard specs, the ASGCA standard contracts, etc. 

The divorce really had little to do with the travel schedule.  We were always somewhat of a contentious couple and it just finally caught up with us.  Not to get too personal about it, but one incident (golf related) highlights my frustrations and clarified things in my mind.  When our son was getting to be a decent junior golfer we found it was really hard to break him into the AJGA from the local level.  My ex said that I should be able to do something with my connections in the golf biz.  I called a past client who happened to sponsor three AJGA tournaments and asked for a sponsors exemption which he was all too happy to gracioulsy grant.  I call home with the good news and her response was "Call him back and tell him we don't want it."  After constant nagging for a week, and me protesting that we wanted to get Andrew in and it would be embarrassing to call back, I call him back and say we don't want the invite.  Again I call home to say "mission accomplished, albeit reluctantly" and she tells me to call back and say we want the spot!  That was really the beginning of the end for me, making me realize just how many times she had pulled similar passive aggressive stunts and this time really embarrassing me in front of an important client. 

I do recall one other event - at an ASGCA meeting right after I had started my business, they had arranged a panel discussion and interviews with the then new Golf Channel and a few magazines.  My first big chance for national exposure!  She gets up about ten minutes before I am supposed to go in for my interview and says "watch my purse".  I argue that she can carry it whereever she is going but she promises to be back in ten minutes.  An hour later, she comes back.  Meanwhile, I had the choice to carry a purse to the taped interview (good first impression) leave it at the table to be stolen, da da da da yada, or wait for her, hoping she would be back any minute.  Unfortunatly, I chose the latter, never dreaming at that time she would do that.  But, she did and I missed out on good publicity op.

As you can tell, I am still pissed about those two incidents! It may be time to let those go........

No clue on Archipalooza.  That is a TD question.

Yes, every big recession, I think about changing careers for a while at least.  The problem is, at 54 an having been on my own so long, I think I am probably unemployable!  I also would miss days like yesterday.  I still doodle golf designs endlessly, and its all I really want to do (presuming the railroads aren't just going to let me start as an engineer) If it all ends in this downturn though, I can say I had a hell of a run.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jeff,

What do you think needs to be done, if anything, to bring some diversity to the field of GCA, or, will the ODGs of tomorrow be the same OWGs of today?

Are design fees out of whack? Much of the work is construction, do a few visits warrant the asking price?

Your work always seems to get good reviews. Are you satisfied with it?  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Design fees ARE out of whack - they are way too low, at least for most of us. Like those who focus only on the top ten in Tour Driving Distance and think that is reality, focusing on the top five or ten gca's who seem to command any fee they want, even in this economy (and I think even they are dropping fees now) overlooks the fact that most gca's don't even make S100K per year out of running their own businesses now.  When I started 25 years ago, that was considered the minimum where it was worth starting your own biz.  Now it should be $200-250K per year, but few of us are making that.  It seems like design is going the way of the US economy in general - the rich get richer.  IF someone wants a signature, they will pay for it.  If not, then the fee competition really begins.

I am doing Firekeeper with fewer plans and more field visits.  Given the time frame of construction (fast) this exposes the problems of a field only approach.  While I provided hole by hole grading plans on an as needed basis, they could have benefitted, if there had been time, from a mass excavation plan that was a little more comprehensive.  I think most gca's charge more for plans than field visits and the real value to most clients is the help that a good set of plans gives in efficient construction.  The field visits to tweak a design from good on plan to hopefully great on the ground is such a small part of most projects.

Am I happy with my work? Well, a definite yes and no will suffice!

Part of me would love to be offered higher end club jobs, remodels for US Opens a la Rees, etc.  But, I am not a member of the elite gca squad.  Now, if you go to places like KS, NB, MN, and DFW, I think most people would I helped elevate the level of golf in those areas where I have worked.  If my career ends and that is my legacy, I will be happy with that, rather than a string of top 100 courses.  Nothing wrong with providing quality, affordable public golf on more than an occasional basis!

As to the work itself, also yes and no.  I am aware of my peronsality as a compromiser to a degree.  In some cases, being a bigger pain in the ass might have gotten slightly better results in fighting for some details in the field.  I do know that only people who frequent this place would probably notice.  But, I had that thought again yesterday as NB looked at things in a slightly different level of detail than I did, like that uphill bunker shot vs downhill bunker shot.

It got me thinking as to just how much detail can someone put into one design?  I could put in more, for sure. But KN always had the opinion that most didn't notice it.  While they were great training, I think any of the gca here could expound on just how much we repeat what we were taught from our mentors and how much breaking away is hard to do in anyting other than small increments.  That is not a bad thing, but I think we have to realize how much we do things the way our mentors did out of habit.

I recall one of the reasons I left Killian was that he said "I don't do grass bunkers" which I think I related here once.  If I wanted to do grass bunkers, or chocolate drop mounds, ot a few other things, I couldn't do them working for Ken.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jeff,
Thanks for the answers.

[Brian Phillips]

Jeff,

Thanks for the answers.  I just shot you an email at your info email but it bounced back that it was FULL....you must be busy...which email are you using now?

[Chris_Clouser]

Jeff,

Is there any job that you would love to go back and have another shot at and do things considerably different?

[Bill_McBride]

Jeff, that one crazy green on the short par 4 at The Wilderness south of Houston -- I loved it, perfect target for a hole that short with a big gully running through the green separating left and right sides -- how do the non-geeks like that green?

By "non-geeks" I mean the guys who don't go all weak in the knees thinking about golf architecture! 

[Garland Bayley]

Jeff,

Thanks for the answers and Sandman (Kalen, aka The Cookie Monster) will be glad to know there are bunkers even he could get out of. He will probably want a rematch of the GRUDGE MATCH, this time at Firekeeper.

Bird

[Lou_Duran]

Jeff,

Is there any job that you would love to go back and have another shot at and do things considerably different?

I hope that Jeff would say he would totally change the green complexes at Great Southwest GC.  He built them for a client who had little knowledge of golf and had Jeff redo the course after he put it into bankruptcy to get out of a loan owned by the Feds, with the objective to sell it as soon as he restuctured the financing.  Jeff delivered on his end to his client's great benefit, but at a huge cost to the members (of which I was one).

After playing Jeff's course north of Dallas, The Bridges, I've come to the conclusion that no other architect has been influenced by this site (or the "classic" design principles influencing this site) more than he has.  Except for a contractor's snafu affecting two holes on the front side, this is a very interesting minimalist design on an indifferent site with green complexes that are bold and challenging yet not over the top.  

[Craig Van Egmond]

But Lou, I thought Fred Couples built the Bridges course.  At least that's what the cards say, all the signage, marketing propaganda and whose name is on the caddies outfits. 

All kidding aside, the Bridges is a very cool course on a very uninteresting site.

[Dan Kelly]

Jeff --

What is your favorite golf course on Earth (or elsewhere)? I'm not asking for "the best"; I'm asking for your favorite. In other words: You have one day of golf left. Where will you spend it?

What is the best hole you've ever designed? Why is it the best?

Do you start every job with a checklist of hole-types that you MUST include, if the land allows it? If so, what are they?

Have you ever designed a hole and thought: "There's nothing else like this anywhere"?

Which course (of yours, or anyone's) would you most like to redesign? Provided: You are allowed to blow up and plow under everything that's there now.

Last (but not least): How many helpless rodents have you golf-carted to death?

Yrs., Dan

[Jason Topp]

Jeff:

Why are you a Raynor fan?

Are you happy you did that Biarritz green at the Wilderness at Fortune Bay?

I understand that the guy who owns (or originally owned) the Legacy in Des Moines sets extremely quick deadlines and keeps costs down by using his contractors to do the work.  Presumably that approach sacrifices from detail in exchange for cost reductions and revenue coming in the door more quickly.  Do you think that approach makes sense form the perspective of a person who is opening a golf course?  By the way, while that is not the prettiest course on the planet, it is a fun test of golf.

Is a trip to the 3 Minnesota courses (Giants Ridge Legends, Quarry and Wilderness at Fortune Bay) a pretty good representation of how your design approach has evolved over time?  Particularly with respect to green contours?

[George Pazin]

Thanks everyone for some excellent Q&A. You should be aware that by participating, you automatically enlist yourself as a future "volunteer" (quotation marks are especially for DK...).

Btw, I think we should let this go for a few days, not just one as originally planned, but of course that depends on the generosity of Jeff.

[Kalen Braley]

George,

This has been an excellent idea and appreciate you starting this up.

Jeff,

Thanks for your willingness to open up and share a bit with us...we love you man!!   

Can't think of any questions at the moment...besides I'm waiting for Shivas's turn in the hot seat so I can grill him!! 

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