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Chris_Clouser

US Amateur
« on: August 25, 2009, 10:41:40 AM »
I'm surprised no one has posted anything about the US Am.  Tim Jackson is leading the stroke play part of the event. 

Does anyone know much about Cedar Ridge, the other course hosting some of the stroke play portion of the event?
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JMEvensky

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 11:02:15 AM »
Quote from: Chris_Clouser on August 25, 2009, 10:41:40 AM


Does anyone know much about Cedar Ridge, the other course hosting some of the stroke play portion of the event?

You beat me to it.Per the score card,7330 and par 70.Looks pretty strong for a 2nd course.
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Craig Van Egmond

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 11:31:30 AM »
Chris,

      Cedar Ridge is  a very nice and challenging Joe Finger golf course, probably about the 6th best course in the state. Its most famous for the women's events such as 83 US Women Open (Jan Stephensen winner) and has a regular LPGA stop for 3 or 4 years. Annika won there a  few times.  
 
      JVB is here working the event, maybe he can chime in.

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Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 11:35:38 AM »
We were laughing a lunch yesterday about how much harder Southern Hills is. The scores were much more pleasant to read in Cedar Ridge
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Chris_Clouser

Re: US Amateur
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 11:40:29 AM »
I noticed that Tim Jackson is leading the stroke play portion and he played Southern Hills.  He could go low at Cedar Ridge from what it sounds like. 
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Matt_Cohn

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 01:45:26 PM »
"Low"? I wouldn't look for many to go low. If you shoot the course rating for two straight days, you'll be +12. Sounds hard.

Projected cut for match play is +8.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 05:35:07 PM by Matt_Cohn »
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 09:11:44 PM »
The twenty-seven players finishing at +8, including Walker Cup Captain Buddy Marucci, are in a playoff for four spots. Tim Jackson is medalist at even par.
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Brent Hutto

Re: US Amateur
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 09:21:20 PM »
A young acquaintance of mine is at +7. I spent the afternoon glancing at the scores every couple hours and marveling at the fact that that was going to end up with a chance at a playoff. I was surprised a few minutes ago to see that +7 is in with several spots to spare. Tough courses, perhaps the wind blew today.

The fellow I was following shot 77 at the "easy" course yesterday. So that even par at Southern Hills today was a heck of a round under pressure I must say.
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Matt_Cohn

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 09:33:33 PM »
That's an hour of tee times just for the playoff!
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TEPaul

Re: US Amateur
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 10:11:00 PM »
Jeeeesus, that looks like about a 27 man playoff for three spots! That should be interesting for sure.

Strategically what in the world would you try to do given the makeup of the playoff holes and those numbers and percentages? I guess with those particular numbers and percentages you should probably just throw all risk to the wind and try to birdie every playoff hole you're in. ;)

I'm really impressed Walker Cup Captain Buddy Marucci is in that playoff. That guy is like fine wine----I think he is like 57 years old! And as if he doesn't have enough going on in the next two weeks, not even to mention he cannot defend his USGA Senior Amateur championship because he will be captaining the Walker Cup at the same time!

Who on here has been in some really weird playoffs where you have to think hard about stuff like this?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 10:12:49 PM by TEPaul »
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Bill_McBride

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 10:15:23 PM »
Quote from: TEPaul on August 25, 2009, 10:11:00 PM
Jeeeesus, that looks like about a 27 man playoff for three spots! That should be interesting for sure.

Strategically what in the world would you try to do given the makeup of the playoff holes and those numbers and percentages? I guess with those particular numbers and percentages you should probably just throw all risk to the wind and try to birdie every playoff hole you're in. ;)

I'm really impressed Walker Cup Captain Buddy Marucci is in that playoff. That guy is like fine wine----I think he is like 57 years old! And as if he doesn't have enough going on in the next two weeks, not even to mention he cannot defend his USGA Senior Amateur championship because he will be captaining the Walker Cup at the same time!

Who on here has been in some really weird playoffs where you have to think hard about stuff like this?

The only playoff i was ever in was for the conference championship of the Southern California Athletic Association in 1963 at Yorba Linda CC, 6 way tie.  I didn't hang around long, topped my first tee shot.   :P
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Matt_Cohn

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 10:23:11 PM »
Assuming they start on #1 at SH, I bet all pars gets in.
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 10:43:54 PM »
I have been in one playoff which I won with a birdie (finished regulation birdie, eagle, birdie, bogey birdie so I couldn't remember par).
With seven to nine groupings this will really test the player's patience and be a nightmare for the officials. What do you do with the first group after they play #1, hold them for an hour? I'd consider a 7-7-7-6 or 5-6-6-5-5 arrangement.
Hopefully I would get a late draw and I would walk down to the first playoff hole green or send a scout and watch how the green putts. The -par:+par ratios starting on #14 are 1:11, 1:4, 1:6, 1:5, 1:26. Course stats for playoff holes are total scroll-down at http://www.usamateur.org/scoring/nml/coursestats.html

Severely modified when corrected on 1st playoff hole.

Buddy has probably already sized up Tim Jackson. Probably would provide some glue in the foursomes. Current US Walker Cup players in the field are five - Bud Cauley, Richie Fowler, Brian Harman, Morgan Hoffman and Nathan Smith.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 11:05:04 PM by Pete_Pittock »
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Matt_Cohn

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 10:53:27 PM »
The playoff starts on #14, the par-3, as matches will be starting on #1 while the playoff is going on. I guess they chose a par-3 to speed things up (smart!) but why not #11?

I still say all pars gets in.

Side note: Medalist Tim Jackson got a one shot penalty for slow play. The USGA could have given him two shots but didn't, thus preserving him as medalist. The only player in his group who didn't get a penalty shot is one of the 27 guys in the playoff. Interesting.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 11:07:43 PM by Matt_Cohn »
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TEPaul

Re: US Amateur
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 11:28:16 PM »
"Side note: Medalist Tim Jackson got a one shot penalty for slow play. The USGA could have given him two shots but didn't, thus preserving him as medalist. The only player in his group who didn't get a penalty shot is one of the 27 guys in the playoff. Interesting."



Matt Cohn:


Wait a minute! That statement, if true, may be a bit more than historic and watershed. I've got to go to bed but I definitely want to get into the details of that one tomorrow!  :)
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Matt_Cohn

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2009, 11:32:42 PM »
Quote from: TEPaul on August 25, 2009, 11:28:16 PM
"Side note: Medalist Tim Jackson got a one shot penalty for slow play. The USGA could have given him two shots but didn't, thus preserving him as medalist. The only player in his group who didn't get a penalty shot is one of the 27 guys in the playoff. Interesting."



Matt Cohn:


Wait a minute! That statement, if true, may be a bit more than historic and watershed. I've got to go to bed but I definitely want to get into the details of that one tomorrow!  :)

That info came from espn.com; wasn't fully covered on usamateur.org.
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2009, 12:32:14 AM »
John VDB's blog says (and I paraphrase) they start on #10 in groups of 4 or 5. Players will not tee off on #11 until play is completed on #10.

And John has also updated his pace of play entry which better explains the penalty situation.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 12:43:52 AM by Pete_Pittock »
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JohnV

Re: US Amateur
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2009, 07:53:03 AM »
The playoff was scheduled to start on #10.  They have moved it to 14 so that players don't have to wait so long.

Regarding the slow play penalty, Jackson's group missed the first three checkpoints.  The first miss (at #4) is a warning, the second (at #9) a potentlial one-stroke penalty and the third (at #13) a potential two-stroke penalty.  If they had missed the final one at #18, they could have been disqualified for missing all four.  As it turns out, they had a ruling on the 8th hole which took a few minutes.  They missed their checkpoint at #9 by less time than the ruling took so that miss was waived.  Given that, they only missed two checkpoints and were penalized one stroke.  But, the officials who followed the group after the first miss (we do that with all groups that miss a checkpoint) felt that John Kostis (Peter's son) was making a significant effort to catch up while the others were not so the penalty was waived for him.

Before anyone cries conspiracy, all groups appeal their penalties and about 50% are probably waived.  Also, the appeals committee never knows what a player shot so they would not have been sure if Jackson would be medalist or if Kostis would make /miss  the playoff.  On Monday Nick Taylor, low Am at the US Open, was penalized for slow play also.
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TEPaul

Re: US Amateur
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2009, 08:05:49 AM »
JohnV:

Thank you for that explanation of the Rule 6-7 and pace of play procedure at the US Amateur. If a group misses their time at a checkpoint (or gate or whatever they call them) are the players individually timed (like the 40-45 second allowance once it's their turn to play) on their way to the next checkpoint or is this now basically just a group timing thing from checkpoint to checkpoint?

As I've said in the past, if I'm understanding this new (well not so new actually) pace of play procedure at the US Amateur (the checkpoints), I don't really agree with it as it seems too easy for a player who is definitely not slow to get trapped and penalized by the fellow competitors in his group who are slow. If that actually happens it seems to me the USGA committee is basically trying to make the players do the committee's pace of play monitoring job to some extent. I feel under the Rules of Golf  and Rule 6-7 any player is or should be only responsible for his own pace of play and not the pace of play of someone else in his group or his entire group.

But maybe in effect that kind of problem pretty much always gets resolved without penalty to a not slow player trapped in a slow group in the so-called "Appeals Process" after the round.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 08:17:03 AM by TEPaul »
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Jim Nugent

Re: US Amateur
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2009, 07:05:02 PM »
One guy won his first round match today, even though he shot 7 over.  Course must really play tough. 
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TEPaul

Re: US Amateur
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2009, 07:32:06 PM »
I've got my eye on Pennsylvania's Mike Van Sickle. Super successful here in PA and a big blowout win this morning!
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Phil McDade

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2009, 07:43:22 PM »
Tom:

Glad to see you mention Van Sickle, which allows me to plug my Wisconsin Cheesehead boys. He played collegiately at Marquette; he won pretty convincingly today, with his dad (Gary Van Sickle, the SI golf scribe) on the bag. Looks to have a very good game. Also moving on today was home-grown Badger Dan Woltman, who played at Wisconsin and grew up about 45 minutes from where I live, learning the game (I believe) at Old Hickory GC, a course I've written about here.

As for the course, it looked "crisp" -- the edging on those bunkers is just incredibly sharp. The course and greens looked to have much more movement and interesting contours than I remember from the recent PGA there that Tiger won.
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Cliff Hamm

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Re: US Amateur
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2009, 07:49:17 PM »
I am amazed how many of these kids are 'connected'.  Tway, Van Sickle, Kostis, Uihlein.  There may be more.  Just an observation....
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: US Amateur New
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2009, 07:53:49 PM »
voided where prohibited by law (mega-edit).
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 07:56:46 PM by Pete_Pittock »
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