[Ben Sims]

Ryan,

I would say that the majority of people on this site aren't associated with the golf business.  I would say of those that are in the golf business, only 10% of those must play well to be reputable.  Mike Young plays pretty close (+/-) to scratch.  I bet it doesn't matter a damn bit how good he plays as to whether he gets a project or not.

As for the rest of us.  We're not pros.  We don't make our living playing golf.  If we choose to be very knowledgeable whist we struggle at the game and become better--though never good--what's the big deal?  My father-in-law can beat me 4 of 5 times on the course.  I guarantee you he is jealous of how much I know about golf courses compared to him.  He realizes I don't care if I shoot 85 or 95.  It doesn't affect my day.  My biggest joy is experiencing great golf courses; it's secondary to shoot a great number. 

That's why I love golf.  I'll never be good enough to play ball at Turner Field with Chipper Jones and the boys.  And as such, I'll never set foot on that grass.  But standing on the 11th tee at Pasatiempo in the same spot as Bobby Jones and trying to hook it across the barranca was pretty cool.  Only in golf.

Hey Ben,

Let me be clear, I am not saying that there is any problem whatsoever with you (the royal you) choosing to be knowledgeable - hell, I learn a lot from all the "you"s out there that do.

My issue is why do the "you"s in that group (again, the royal you, not you specifically) feel like this enlightenment is gospel that needs to be spread?

Ryan,

Like any religion, knowledge about GCA should be spread.   (in this day and age of quick tempers, my sarcasm required an emoticon)

Humor aside, I see your point.  It's funny.  My good buddy here in San Antonio was a D1 golfer at the Air Force Academy.  He openly chides me as being his ONLY friend and frequent playing partner over his entire life that knows as much as I do and cares as much as I do about GCA. This from a guy that played very competitive golf for a long time.  Is that good or bad?  I think it could be bad in way for golf in the long run quite honestly.  If we live in a world where the best players believe that overwatered, over-manicured, contrived courses are the best ones.  Then this whole movement towards courses like Rustic, Ballyneal, Kingsley, Wine Valley, Saguaro,  and myriad other "new" links may not have the clout that we all think it does.

[Kalen Braley]

OK ok ok....

Before anyone hurts themselves...please do yourselves a favor and visit this link to learn about various beer styles.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/style

Consider this a mix between the Courses by Country and Feature Interview sections so you can get some basic intro on what styles are out there are and thier origins.  It also lists some beers by name so you can see some examples.

Good luck and lets resume this conversation when the training wheels are off!!      

[Tim Pitner]

Kalen,

I didn't say it's hard to make a Pilsner; I said it's hard to make a good Pilsner.  Try as you might, you can't be a beer snob if you don't know how to spell Guinness.  And until you've been to Ireland, played the links and drank Guinness, I don't want your views on the subject (with due respect).

To me, saying an IPA is categorically better than a Pilsner, for example, is like saying a Malbec is better than a Garnacha or a links course is better than a parkland course.  You might prefer one over the other, but they're different things so it's pointless to say one is "better."  

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

I didn't say it's hard to make a Pilsner; I said it's hard to make a good Pilsner.  Try as you might, you can't be a beer snob if you don't know how to spell Guinness.  And until you've been to Ireland, played the links and drank Guinness, I don't want your views on the subject (with due respect).

To me, saying an IPA is categorically better than a Pilsner, for example, is like saying a Malbec is better than a Garnacha or a links course is better than a parkland course.  You might prefer one over the other, but they're different things so it's pointless to say one is "better." 

Shivas,

Fair enough on the 1st point.

As for Guinness, just because I left out an "n" doesn't mean I haven't tried it many times, in its various bottle and on-tap forms.  Safe to say I'm pretty sure i don't need to go over Ireland to sample it to give an opinion on it.  But I have done the next best thing and tried it on tap in several Irish bars in San Francisco where the ex-pat natives hang out.

As for categories, I would agree that I alone can't say its better.  But visit any real beer site like Beer Advocate.com or Rate Beer.com and IPAs by far and away get better marks over Pilsners thru thousands and thousands of reviews.  Or is that sample size too small for you?   

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, some of us already know all this stuff.  I sense that the difference here is that you and your buddies make your own.  I'm way too lazy for that so I just buy the stuff. 

Shiv,

You would be wrong again.  I do have a couple of buddies who are into home-brewing but I'm not one of them. The pros make it much better than I ever could, so I have no delusions about that. I have sampled several home job brews and its not really my thing either.

[Ben Sims]

Kalen,

Both appropriate in name and flavor for you would be a beer I dearly love...

Kwak.  

Take a look.  www.kwak.be

[Richard Choi]

You haven't had a real wine unless you had the Box O' Wine!

[Garland Bayley]

Tim,

You chide Kalen on his spelling, but you can't even spell grenache correctly.

 

[Tim Pitner]

Kalen,

I suppose you subscribe religiously to the Golf Digest rankings then?  It's a matter of taste and personal opinion, not one of opinion polls.  

P.S. Guinness does taste better in Dublin.  

Bayley,

I used the Spanish spelling of Grenache (i.e., Garnacha) because I enjoy Spanish wines. 

[Kalen Braley]

As for categories, I would agree that I alone can't say its better.  But visit any real beer site like Beer Advocate.com or Rate Beer.com and IPAs by far and away get better marks over Pilsners thru thousands and thousands of reviews.  Or is that sample size too small for you?   

Well, Kalen, for cryin' out loud...that's my point!  It's really hard to make a truly standout pilsner.  I can't think of one and I've tried 'em all. 

Dave,

I've got a newflash for you....its because the style of beer sucks...thats why.  But I'm glad you're finally catching up to that fact!!   

[Garland Bayley]

...
I used the Spanish spelling of Grenache (i.e., Garnacha) because I enjoy Spanish wines. 

Tim,

That was obvious. Therefore, the 

[Phil McDade]

Speaking of blank stares.....

The only (really, truly, the only...) lousy part of my recent golf trip to Chicago was that I knew I'd be traveling to the land of sh..tty beer. At one place, when I politely asked what they might have, the waitress replied, "You name it, we've got it," so I asked for something from the only semi-decent small brewery in the city -- Goose Island (which isn't all that good...).

A big blank stare. I settled for a Sam Adams.

Good beer may be the single best thing about living in Wisconsin.

As for the golf, my better half has still not gotten over the "golfing with guys I met on the Internet" thing (and driving 2-3 hours to do so.) I profusely thanked the good folks at Beverly CC at their recent media day for providing me with enough things -- scorecard, media press kits, the like -- to actually prove when I got home that I'd actually, you know, been there...

[Britt Rife]

That said, NGLA is also on my list of things that people have no clue about.  When I tell other golfers that it is my number one place to study and experience, they say, "what is National Golf Links?  I've never heard of that course."

The thing that kills me is that they always think they HAVE heard of the National Golf Links.  But they haven't.  They think I'm talking about Augusta.  Or some public course they played with their father in law in South Carolina on vaction.  Or "Oh, you mean Penn National?"  

[Sean_A]

Kalen

My beer drinking days have been greatly curtailed these past many years as I have tried to limit most of my drinking to meal times and by getting into the English habit of doing beer drinking in the pub/club.  However, I do like a good beer now and then.  I usually keep four beers in stock, Sam Adams Lager, Leffe Blonde, Old Speckled Hen and Grolsch.  I would keep a Weiss in the garage, but I have yet to find a decent one in England.  I am not sure I could ever say one is better than the other - it all depends on my mood.  Two things are certain though.  Everyone of these beers tastes better on tap and I wouldn't dream of drinking a dark beer from a bottle or tin. Generally speaking, the darker the beer, the more the packaged version deviates from how it should taste.

Garland

You know what they say.  Nearly all red wine is drunk too warm and nearly all white wine is drunk too cold.  There is a happy medium, bu to achieve usually requires a wine fridge.


Ciao

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

Both appropriate in name and flavor for you would be a beer I dearly love...

Kwak.  

Take a look.  www.kwak.be

Ben,

I'll have to try it sometime...

Kalen

[Britt Rife]

Speaking of blank stares.....

The only (really, truly, the only...) lousy part of my recent golf trip to Chicago was that I knew I'd be traveling to the land of sh..tty beer. At one place, when I politely asked what they might have, the waitress replied, "You name it, we've got it," so I asked for something from the only semi-decent small brewery in the city -- Goose Island (which isn't all that good...).

A big blank stare. I settled for a Sam Adams.

Good beer may be the single best thing about living in Wisconsin.

Chicago has Three Floyds.  That stuff is mighty fine.

And Pilsner haters:  If you are in Philadelphia, try Victory Prima Pils.  Any IPA guy would love it.

[james soper]

minimalist

[Tim Pitner]

...
I used the Spanish spelling of Grenache (i.e., Garnacha) because I enjoy Spanish wines. 

Tim,

That was obvious. Therefore, the 

Bayley, I missed the smiley face--I was too pissed (get it?) at Kalen's obstinance to notice. 

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

I suppose you subscribe religiously to the Golf Digest rankings then?  It's a matter of taste and personal opinion, not one of opinion polls.  

P.S. Guinness does taste better in Dublin.  

Bayley,

I used the Spanish spelling of Grenache (i.e., Garnacha) because I enjoy Spanish wines. 

Tim,

Thanks for bringing up this point.  I have no doubt that people think this...but the reality is, and this according to people I've talked to 1st hand in the biz, its just not true.  A good beer thats been packaged and trasnported correctly is exactly the same wherever you put it on tap.

But no doubt the myth continues....

As for my opinions on beer, I tend to generally concur with both personal opinion web sites and experts in the field when it comes to beer. Unlike in golf opinion polls where favorite courses are inconistent at best, with beer, its readily and easily available all over the world so you don't have bias as you do in golf ratings where the average joe has never played a top notch private or even come close to one.

[Scott Warren]

Kalen

My beer drinking days have been greatly curtailed these past many years as I have tried to limit most of my drinking to meal times and by getting into the English habit of doing beer drinking in the pub/club.  However, I do like a good beer now and then.  

You should try four pints of cider in 90 minutes on a golf club balcony while dehydrated from an unseasonably warm English May day sometime. I highly recommend it!

The fact that all three of you have made mention of my state since then tells me I was even more pissed than I recall!

[Kalen Braley]

Speaking of blank stares.....

The only (really, truly, the only...) lousy part of my recent golf trip to Chicago was that I knew I'd be traveling to the land of sh..tty beer. At one place, when I politely asked what they might have, the waitress replied, "You name it, we've got it," so I asked for something from the only semi-decent small brewery in the city -- Goose Island (which isn't all that good...).

A big blank stare. I settled for a Sam Adams.

Good beer may be the single best thing about living in Wisconsin.

Chicago has Three Floyds.  That stuff is mighty fine.

And Pilsner haters:  If you are in Philadelphia, try Victory Prima Pils.  Any IPA guy would love it.

Britt,

Three Floyds is indeed very good.  Thier Double IPA is by far and away the finest of that style I've ever had.  It was like drinking liquid nectar of the gods!!   

As for Prima Pils, I've tried that too, and it was pretty underwhelming, although to no fault of its own. Its a top notch beer for its style...I'm just not a big fan of the style.


Phil,

Goose Island does make some excellent beers.  Next time try thier Bourbon County Stout, its out of this world good and is easily in my top 25 of beers I've ever tried.

[Ken Moum]

I am a junkie with clubs.  Amazing, that very few golfers understand concepts like torque, swingweight, flex, etc.  They have no idea of what fitting is all about and how to find the club that best fits their swing.  Little do most golfers realize that they would play a whole lot better with a shaft of 43-44 inches, regular flex, and lost of 11 degrees or more.  It is macho to play stiff and nine degrees, that is mostly what I see out there.

So... are you also a fan of www.4GEA.com?

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

I buy my bottled beer from this site: http://www.beersofeurope.co.uk/.  You'll find any style you want there, from US microbrews to an extraordinary selection of German and Belgian beers.

And the discussion about Pilsner is absurd.  Of course you can make an excellent Pilsner.  Will it have the body and full taste of an IPA?  Of course not, it's a Pilsner.  It's not a style I often drink but on a hot summer day it can really hit the mark as a change from a Weiss beer.  Similarly, in Cologne, I have enjoyed Kolsch, a beer even lighter and cleaner than Pilsner.  To lump craft brewed Pilsners and Kolsch in with the insult to a palate that is Bud (the Anheuser-Busch version, not Budvar) is unfair and stupid.

[Phil McDade]

Phil,

Goose Island does make some excellent beers.  Next time try thier Bourbon County Stout, its out of this world good and is easily in my top 25 of beers I've ever tried.

Kalen:

I'm not a big fan of Stouts, so I haven't tried that. I have tried most of the Goose Island stuff, and it pales in comparison to what I can get from any number of very good, totally unknown (outside of Wisconsin) breweries here.

I do note 3Floyds is Indiana, not Chicago, based.

[Kalen Braley]

Phil,

Goose Island does make some excellent beers.  Next time try thier Bourbon County Stout, its out of this world good and is easily in my top 25 of beers I've ever tried.

Kalen:

I'm not a big fan of Stouts, so I haven't tried that. I have tried most of the Goose Island stuff, and it pales in comparison to what I can get from any number of very good, totally unknown (outside of Wisconsin) breweries here.

I do note 3Floyds is Indiana, not Chicago, based.

Sean,

I love stouts, so that makes sense.

And good call on 3 Floyds, they are in Indiana indeed.  And so far the only way i've been able to sample it is thru beer swaps...I send something out there to someone who can't get a west coast beer and he sends me something..its awesome!!   

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