Wentworth West Redesign

[Jud_T]

Just keep their grubby paws off the East course!

[Thomas McQuillan]

What hole has the water in front of the green. It looks a mess, almost like something out of myrtle beach.

[Robin Doodson]

What hole has the water in front of the green. It looks a mess, almost like something out of myrtle beach.

the hole with the water is the 8th.

is is just me or is the style of bunkering just downright weird. they are half way between formal and rustic without being either. very little flow to the fairway bunkering. -20 will win the tournament again i would guess although the new greens are probably like concrete.

robin

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I agree...the obvious stand out ugly feature is the new 18th...but if they had gone with a more Coltish looking bunker visual, the rest of the changes would not have looked so drastic....it is the "modern" style of the bunkering that has spoiled the course.
The course probably was in need of some changes re: fairway bunkering but the look is awful.
The water in front of 8 and the "brook" on 18..... hidious.

[Scott Macpherson]

Thanks for posting the photos Paul.

It is obvious that many people of this forum have question marks over the 'style' of the renovation/redesign. Far enough. We all like different things. Foremost in some peoples minds may be that this is course with a blood line back to quite possibly Britain's greatest ever golf course architect – Harry Colt, and changing away from his heathland style perfected perhaps in the late 1920's, is sacrilege. Without seeing the redesign for myself I feel unable to enter that debate.

What I am interested in however is the speed of this reconstruction. Through the UK's most sever winter in 30 years, this is a pretty incredible and audacious project. The construction crew and green-keepers must have work tirelessly to get the to where it is now, and must continue to work hard to have the course prepared for the BMW championship in May.

Can anyone comment on how is the turf taking? I imagine that it is a little thin, but it looks OK in your photos Paul?

I am not sure we will see many more high profile course renovations that have such a short period of time in adverse weather to get ready for a premier Professional Tour event. Good luck to them for that.


scott

[Mark Chaplin]

Scott - TPC is harsh! The West course ony ever had one bit of water on the 8th and the pond has just been expanded. It may have been expanded for drainage reasons.

It is easy to blame Els but I guess the client called the shots in this case.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Mark I am not sure. Firstly its a bit early to say if its good or bad but if its bad I think it is Ernie's fault, if he did not like it he should not have done it. I have walked away from plenty of jobs because I did not like the plot. If you wanna take the fee you got to take the fine. I think most of the other archies on here would feel the same and not pole dance for fee.

[Gareth Williams]

I'm playing the West next week so will report back if GCA members would like me to?

[Jon Wiggett]

Hi Gareth,

it would be interesting to hear from someone who has played the course. Have you played the west before?

Jon

[Scott Warren]

Gareth and the West are old mates. He knows it well.

[James Boon]

Scott,

It looks like we have to say that Gareth KNEW it well and will need to get to know the West at Wentworth all over again 

Gareth,

Please report back. Will be interesting to hear your thoughts on how the changes have altered not just the look, but also the feel of the place?

Cheers,

James

[G Jones]

dear oh dear, this looks awful...

[Mark Chaplin]

Scott Mc - the work was mainly finished by last October, the winter will have affected growth which has only just started in some warmer weather.

[Gareth Williams]

Hi Gareth,

it would be interesting to hear from someone who has played the course. Have you played the west before?

Jon

Hi Jon,

Sure, have played the West a number of times with friends/colleagues who are (or were) members. I last played it in April 2009, so just before the PGA and the changes were commenced in June '09.

Regards,
Gareth

[Gareth Williams]

Gareth and the West are old mates. He knows it well.

We have a friend who is lucky enough to have the West's 12th green and 13th tee at the bottom of their garden....so we know it very indeed - before and after!

[Mark Chaplin]

A Wentworth Club member who lives on the 3rd has the old 14 green in his garden.

[Tim Nugent]

Tom

Els deserves some of the blame, but I think he is just a famous figurehead.  His contradictory statements about the earlier projects and then this project have been laughable. 

The owner Richard Caring and the head of Els design team, Greg Letsche are mainly responsible for this.

Greg Letsche, for those who don't know, was a long time Nichlaus associate (during the late 80's /90's) don't know when he jumped ship but that happens often with the Tour Pro design houses.

[Gareth Williams]

Scott,

It looks like we have to say that Gareth KNEW it well and will need to get to know the West at Wentworth all over again 

Gareth,

Please report back. Will be interesting to hear your thoughts on how the changes have altered not just the look, but also the feel of the place?

Cheers,

James

Will do James 

Have been to the club a few times recently and there is a buzz around the place but it has been quieter of late until the West opened a month or so ago.

Members (and guests) are steadily getting out on the West and sometimes being asked for feedback too.

Will report back after tomorrow..

[Gareth Williams]

Well after a round at the West this week it has confirmed pretty much everything we had feared from the previous reports and pictures.

The changes are well documented from a visual and design point of view so all I really will add is how they play in use. The first word that comes to mind on the many changes wrought is "inappropriate" - especially if one knew (and loved) the previous set up.

What we have now is a Heathland course with classic Colt (c. 90 year) routing but with green complexes and bunkers that as modern (and totally un retro) as any new course opened right now. From a playing perspective the greens are excellent and and the surrounds present many challenges to the players but when taken as a whole it just doesn't gel on any level at all.

For many members and players they will love the changes as it looks "different" and, to some, a little "exotic" but to those who know the heritage and ideals of such a design they will be aghast.

I have no doubts the pro's will love it (watch out for a report from that well known Wentworth "hater" Padraig Harrington who is playing the West today) but that love will really be for the greens and their greater consistency, not because of any appreciation of what is now a redundant classic Colt course.

Happy to answer any specific questions if anyone wants to know about a particular hole.

(p.s. I did birdie the 18th but it's such a "Mickey Mouse" hole now!!)

[Robin Doodson]

looking forward to playing the West in July.

i spent 5 years on the greenstaff there and all my spare time caddying so i will be interested to see the changes. It truly was a great golf course to play and Wentworth as a whole is just a brilliant place. When you turn up the 13th the stretch home was just a real thrill. i think the thrill of 13 - 16 was just the anticipation of playing 17 and 18. 13 was a great hole, 14 - poor, 15 - ok, 16 - bad hole, 17 great driving hole, 18 - famous. It would have been great to see someone rough the course up and bring it back to Colt's vision rather than Yank it up. Wentworth will always, always succeed commercially but will never make it in the eye of the purist. having said that the East course is one of the greatest layouts around and those in the know have always rated it above the west.

robin

[Tony Ristola]

FYI... The Els Course at Wentworth hosts the BMW PGA this week

From last year.

Ernie Els blasts fellow pros over Wentworth's West Course redesign
Ernie Els has hit out at players who criticised his redesign of Wentworth's West Course this week, saying they had "put the knife" into him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/europeantour/7756878/Ernie-Els-blasts-fellow-pros-over-Wentworths-West-Course-redesign.html

Today:

EDITED

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=reu-europeanels_interview

By Tony Jimenez

VIRGINIA WATER, England, May 25 (Reuters) - Ernie Els believes the PGA Championship at Wentworth is now a bigger event than The Players Championship (TPC) in Florida, the tournament dubbed golf’s unofficial fifth major.

The South African, who has masterminded a host of changes to the iconic West Course on the outskirts of London, also said the alterations he had made to the layout over the past 12 months meant it was now as good as any major venue in golf.

“This (tournament) is definitely taking the place of the TPC,” Els told Reuters in an interview on the eve of the European Tour’s flagship event.

“I want to make this feel like the Augusta of the European Tour and we can do that. We’ve got the trees, a great layout and we just want to keep making it better and not go backwards.”

Els received lots of criticism from his fellow players for the wholesale changes he made to the course 12 months ago but he is hopeful there will no such outcry this year.

“It’s beautiful and I think this is the best I’ve seen the course in many a year,” said the world number 20 as he stood back to survey the scene on the 16th fairway.

“The green is almost twice as big now,” said the triple major winner. “It’s gone from some 380 square metres to 586, that’s a huge change.

He took the course criticism to heart last year and at the end of the championship he told Reuters that some of the players had “put the knife” into him.

Although Els has yet to discover the opinions of his fellow competitors, he said he would be more sanguine with his reaction this time round.

“You are always going to get stick out there, there’s always some banter, but I got to a point last year when I kind of had enough,” said the winner of the 2002 British Open and the U.S. Open champion of 1994 and 1997.

“Some of the guys just kept going and going so I had to kind of stand up to that.

“If there’s criticism this year I will take it very lightly because I think the course is right where we want it now.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/golf/8695836.stm

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

I counted approx. 33 of the top 100 from the World Rankings in the field. There are also a few in the field that don't even make it into the top 1000.

[Garland Bayley]

FYI... The Els Course at Wentworth hosts the BMW PGA this week

From last year.

Ernie Els blasts fellow pros over Wentworth's West Course redesign
Ernie Els has hit out at players who criticised his redesign of Wentworth's West Course this week, saying they had "put the knife" into him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/europeantour/7756878/Ernie-Els-blasts-fellow-pros-over-Wentworths-West-Course-redesign.html

Today:

EDITED

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/pga/news?slug=reu-europeanels_interview

By Tony Jimenez

VIRGINIA WATER, England, May 25 (Reuters) - Ernie Els believes the PGA Championship at Wentworth is now a bigger event than The Players Championship (TPC) in Florida, the tournament dubbed golf’s unofficial fifth major.

The South African, who has masterminded a host of changes to the iconic West Course on the outskirts of London, also said the alterations he had made to the layout over the past 12 months meant it was now as good as any major venue in golf.

“This (tournament) is definitely taking the place of the TPC,” Els told Reuters in an interview on the eve of the European Tour’s flagship event.

“I want to make this feel like the Augusta of the European Tour and we can do that. We’ve got the trees, a great layout and we just want to keep making it better and not go backwards.”

Els received lots of criticism from his fellow players for the wholesale changes he made to the course 12 months ago but he is hopeful there will no such outcry this year.

“It’s beautiful and I think this is the best I’ve seen the course in many a year,” said the world number 20 as he stood back to survey the scene on the 16th fairway.

“The green is almost twice as big now,” said the triple major winner. “It’s gone from some 380 square metres to 586, that’s a huge change.

He took the course criticism to heart last year and at the end of the championship he told Reuters that some of the players had “put the knife” into him.

Although Els has yet to discover the opinions of his fellow competitors, he said he would be more sanguine with his reaction this time round.

“You are always going to get stick out there, there’s always some banter, but I got to a point last year when I kind of had enough,” said the winner of the 2002 British Open and the U.S. Open champion of 1994 and 1997.

“Some of the guys just kept going and going so I had to kind of stand up to that.

“If there’s criticism this year I will take it very lightly because I think the course is right where we want it now.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/golf/8695836.stm

Ernie,

We know Pete Dye, we're friends with Pete Dye, we know Pete's work, we love Pete's work, Pete's work has been a huge inspiration.

Ernie, you are no Pete Dye!

[Tony Ristola]

I've seen photo's, didn't see the tournament but will try to catch a recap this week.

What's the answer to fixing the West course?

.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Tony - Opinion seems very mixed. It has some supporters with the changes and a -6 score for 72 holes seems the result 'they' wanted. I liked Wentworth because of the 5 5 finish, someone could pick up 4 shots, it was good for TV, you could even bugger the last couple up, that seems to be taken away now because if your in contention they lay up at 18 even after last years revision.... to fix it perhaps the hole needs playing 25 yards shorter. Whatever the water still does not look right to my eye.

I don't like 8 or 12 if I am honest, the rest is probably better than before. So 15 out 18 are probably better. I dont think it was a brilliant golf course before, Sunningdale is a league ahead IMO but modern tournament golf seems to want courses where long holes rule over the ones this site cares for.

Peter Alliss made a comment that you used to be able to run it in at 9 holes before the change...now its all aerial.
I have heard its much more difficult now to play and for a mid handicapper its very hard bordering unenjoyable, but a lot of new courses are like that and basically Wentworth is a new course.