[George Freeman]

I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to play Crystal Downs last summer.  Hard to sum the experience up in words, but it is simply fun, strategic golf in its purest form.

I apologize if I have already posted these pics (but honestly, who can tire of seeing this course?!).  Enjoy.

1



2



3


4 (from 3 tee looking over 2 green)



5 (just couldn't get enough pictures of it!)

don't worry, the only time I actually rode in one of them was from 11 green to 12 tee





6


from 6 tee looking over to 7 green



7



impossible to capture the whole green, unless you're in a helicopter


8

back towards the tee/landing area w/ 1 green on far right




9



10
two shots from ten tee looking out over the front nine




11


somehow I misplaced my pics from 12-14...

14


15



16


17





18


from clubhouse area

[Matthew Parish]

George,

Great photos of Crystal Downs.  Did you play anywhere else up in Michigan you would recommend, i.e., besides the obvious (Arcadia Bluffs) and not so difficult to get on?  I am looking at Micihigan as alternative for next summer if my Ireland plans fall through.

Matthew Parish

[George Freeman]

Matthew,

I grew up about 45 min from Crystal Downs, so I've managed to play a lot of the courses in MI.  There are tons of threads about MI golf, so I would suggest trying the search function.  But off the top of my head, some great/good choices would be (in no specific order or region of the state):

Kingsley Club
Greywalls
Belvedere
(Arcadia Bluffs)
Forest Dunes
Black Forest
The Mines
Bay Harbor
True North
Tullymore
Pilgrim's Run
Lakewood Shores - Gailes
Angel's Crossing

All on the public side except Kingsley (there many more excellent private clubs in the state, some easier to get on than others).  Hope that helps.  MI is definitely a top tier golf destination IMO.

- George

[Ben Sims]

George,

Thanks for those pics.  I must say now that Crystal Downs may be one of the most complete golf courses I've ever seen.  I am sure some will argue with me, but the stretch of 4-7 might have more variety than any stretch of par 4's in the world.  Oddly enough, they all measure within 50 yards or so of each other.  #5 was--as expected--divine.  Some surprises for me though were 1, 8 and 13-16.  The back side is underrated IMO, even though the front deserves all the ink that it gets. 

Seeing Crystal and Kingsley within a couple hours of each other reminded me of just how little I know about GCA, and how much more I want to learn.

[Matthew Parish]

Good night, that was a quick and comprehensive reply.  Thanks George.  My preliminary thoughts are to fly into Detroit from Houston, hit Tulllymore on the way up and stay around Elk Rapids, which seems to provide access to a number of the courses you mentioned.  I may be pumping you for additional information over the next few months, so let me know now if you will find it annoying.  Thanks again.

[ed_getka]

Matthew,
   Another way to approach that trip is to fly into Chicago go up and play Lawsonia, then Erin Hills, Whistling Straits, then head up to the Upper Peninsula for Greywalls, then down into Lower Michigan for Belvedere, High Point (if it reopens), Kingsley Club (a polite request goes a long way), down to Grand Rapids for The Mines, a little further south to Angels Crossing, then down into Indiana for the Warren Course (C&C) at Notre Dame, then back up to Chicago and fly home.

[ed_getka]

George,
   Thanks for sharing the pix. I was up there a few weeks ago and the course never fails to teach me something new every time.

[George Freeman]

Matthew,
   Another way to approach that trip is to fly into Chicago go up and play Lawsonia, then Erin Hills, Whistling Straits, then head up to the Upper Peninsula for Greywalls, then down into Lower Michigan for Belvedere, High Point (if it reopens), Kingsley Club (a polite request goes a long way), down to Grand Rapids for The Mines, a little further south to Angels Crossing, then down into Indiana for the Warren Course (C&C) at Notre Dame, then back up to Chicago and fly home.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winning itinerary!  You would also drive right past True North, Bay Harbor, Arcadia (minor detour) & Tullymore with this trip.  Forest Dunes and Black Forest wouldn't be too far out of the way either (no more than an hour for each).  And unless you can get access to the private clubs in the greater detroit area, I'm not sure it's worth the trip (nothing too special in general about the publics).

[Jim Colton]

One thing I noticed on 17 is that the bunker on 7 off in the distance is in scale when you're standing on 17, therefore it looks like it's just behind the green.  Same with the large bunker on the hill on 5 when you're standing on the 17th tee.  Brilliant attention to detail!

[Tom_Doak]

Jim C.:  Very astute observation.  I played the course for several years before I noticed that.  Of course, when I first went there you couldn't even see the green on #17 from the tee, because of a cherry tree which had sprouted up on the ridge just to the right of the landing area!

[Jim Colton]

Tom,

  That's the first time anybody ever mentioned me and astute in the same sentence.  Truth be told, I noticed it after somebody else pointed it out to me.

  It's probably been talked about here before, but how has Crystal Downs influenced your thinking and your designs?  Was it more influential early on than today?  Any specific holes you can tie back to holes or features at CD?

  Playing CD was like lifting the blinders that I had been wearing for many years.  I'm not sure I'll ever look at any golf course the same way again.  The greens require so much thought.

  Jim

[Matthew Parish]

Tom,

I have read some of your musings on the use of trees as obstacleis/hazards and the photos George posted of Crystal Downs and your mention of the cherry tree got me wondering.  It seems that the shot values of 5, 6, and 7, for example, have certainly changed and, in some ways, benefited from the growth of trees over the last several decades.  Did the club at some point make the determination to plant or was this coincidence?

[George Freeman]

Tom,

I have read some of your musings on the use of trees as obstacleis/hazards and the photos George posted of Crystal Downs and your mention of the cherry tree got me wondering.  It seems that the shot values of 5, 6, and 7, for example, have certainly changed and, in some ways, benefited from the growth of trees over the last several decades.  Did the club at some point make the determination to plant or was this coincidence?

And also, has the been/is there discussion about potentially removing any/all of the trees mentioned above?  They are such beautiful trees, but they definitely effect the strategy of the holes (whether that is good or bad, I don't know), assumingly altering it from the original intent.

[Mike Hendren]

Brilliant attention to detail!

Or perhaps coincidental/accidental.  Sometimes we give the old dead guys too much credit.

Though rarely included in such discussions, I believe the 17th at Crystal Downs is an outstanding short two shot hole.   The approach, from any distance, is a nail-biter.

Bogey

[Joe Hancock]

Brilliant attention to detail!

Or perhaps coincidental/accidental.  Sometimes we give the old dead guys too much credit.

Though rarely included in such discussions, I believe the 17th at Crystal Downs is an outstanding short two shot hole.   The approach, from any distance, is a nail-biter.

Bogey

I know I've likely shared this story before, but one of my most memorable shots happened on #17.

It was about te 20th of November, and 60 degrees. Very nice for that time of year, and certainly too warm for deer hunting. So, a friend and I go to the Downs for a late season treat. The wind was blowing a good 25 mph I would guess. I hit driver to the middle of the fairway, and had 83 yards in. The wind was directly in my face, and I bet I reconsidered club 6 times. I finally decided on an 8 iron. I had to back off from my setup 3 times because the wind was moving me so much. I finally struck the ball, as solid as I could, and it lands 4 feet from the hole.

That was fun!

[Dan Herrmann]

Great photos!

Honestly, I never knew it was so good up there!

[Ash Towe]

Ed,
I can see why you go there so often.

Thanks for the photo tour George.

[Tom_Doak]

Bogey:  There is NO way those bunkers on #5 and #7 showing up on #17 is accidental ... I believe Maxwell enlarged them dramatically when he was building the back nine and saw them in the distance.  They just fit the picture too well to be an accident, and when I asked one of the guys from the construction crew years ago what he remembered about Perry Maxwell, he said he remembered that Maxwell was always walking circles around what they were building, from near and far, seeing how it tied into the landscape.

Matthew / George:  The tree on #5 was about 20 feet tall in 1932 when somebody filmed a bunch of holes on the course as part of a home movie; so MacKenzie and Maxwell saw that one and planned around it.

The trees in the landing area on #6 (left and right) and to the right of #8 in the corner are all in a line ... they all follow the line of an old road (the dip across the start of #7 fairway) which I believe was moved to the perimeter of the golf course when MacKenzie routed it in 1929.  (There had been a nine-hole course on the property for two years prior ... there is a little shelf on the left of #8 fairway at the top of the hill which was once a tee for that nine holes, and the old road was just behind it.)  So, all of those trees were left by MacKenzie and Maxwell.  They've gotten pretty big over the years, but I have to believe the designers anticipated that.

In the 1960's a green chairman did plant a bunch of trees every 40-50 yards on center between the holes on the front nine and also some on the back nine; he also planted trees behind many of the greens to "frame" them.  They were about 20-25 feet tall when I first saw them in 1982.  They asked me about the trees in 1986 and I said they should go, but it took a few more years before they were removed, in deference to Mr. Ward who planted them.  A few of those trees remain, in spots where there wasn't a particular reason to remove them because they didn't stick out.  But if you can imagine the view from #1 tee with a bunch of trees spaced every 50 yards going down either side of the hole ...

Jim Colton:  I will get to your question later.  Maybe it deserves a separate thread.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks much, George.

Looking at that scary 17th green, I'm reminded of what my 3 year old said while we watched the British Open. After I explained to him what bunkers were, he said, very seriously and carefully, "If your ball goes in there, the only way -- the ONLY way -- to get it out is to pick it up with your hand and THROW it out". Yup, son - the apple didn't fall far from the tree....

Even more OT - I don't play courses with that kind of topography very often. I do remember one, though - Muskoka Sands, a 9 hole Stanley Thompson course. I've been trying find similarities in the approach/style between what I remember of Thompson's work and what I see in your pictures - and I don't think I can find any.

Peter

[Wyatt Halliday]

Thank you for the pictures George.

One often overlooked aspect is the unique home field advantage that members have. Having said that, it's almost mystical in the sense that I can imagine lifelong members of the club still being perpexed by its subtlety. The repertoire of shots one must have to successfully navigate their way around is undefinable. It constantly goads the helpless golfer into trying shots that are on the very edge of their given arsenal. The greens set the stage early by inflicting a constant barrage of mental anguish throughout the remainder of the round. They affect every decision that is made for the rest of the day. There is no feeling quite like the sheer terror of attempting a short approach shot at Crystal Downs.

[John Mayhugh]

Thank you for the pictures George.

One often overlooked aspect is the unique home field advantage that members have. Having said that, it's almost mystical in the sense that I can imagine lifelong members of the club still being perpexed by its subtlety. The repertoire of shots one must have to successfully navigate their way around is undefinable. It constantly goads the helpless golfer into trying shots that are on the very edge of their given arsenal. The greens set the stage early by inflicting a constant barrage of mental anguish throughout the remainder of the round. They affect every decision that is made for the rest of the day. There is no feeling quite like the sheer terror of attempting a short approach shot at Crystal Downs.

So if can paraphrase what you're saying, it's a pushover at 6,500 yards.  Right?   

[Wyatt Halliday]

Thank you for the pictures George.

One often overlooked aspect is the unique home field advantage that members have. Having said that, it's almost mystical in the sense that I can imagine lifelong members of the club still being perpexed by its subtlety. The repertoire of shots one must have to successfully navigate their way around is undefinable. It constantly goads the helpless golfer into trying shots that are on the very edge of their given arsenal. The greens set the stage early by inflicting a constant barrage of mental anguish throughout the remainder of the round. They affect every decision that is made for the rest of the day. There is no feeling quite like the sheer terror of attempting a short approach shot at Crystal Downs.

So if can paraphrase what you're saying, it's a pushover at 6,500 yards.  Right?   

I have no idea, but I will say it was an absolute bitch to try and figure out at 6300yds.

[Jon Heise]

They affect every decision that is made for the rest of the day. There is no feeling quite like the sheer terror of attempting a short approach shot at Crystal Downs.

I certainly felt that the day I played there, but the two members, guys had to be late 60's early 70's, that terror had worn off.  They'd literally step right up to the ball and drop it right on the pin.  Me and my friend were in total amazement.  One of them holed out from the back bunker on 14.  Acted like he's done it a dozen times this year...

[Steve Lang]

 

Great to see those CD pics.. George, thanks..

i seem to see a lot of things captured by Doak and Devries in their Mich courses..


p.s. george's list is right on...
Kingsley Club (great)
Greywalls  (great)
Belvedere (classic)
(Arcadia Bluffs)  not yet.. always seems too expensive
Forest Dunes  (great)
Black Forest (personal favorite, luckily my summer home course of perpetual unfinished business)
The Mines (great hidden gem of a course + mucho fun with Joe H if you can swing it.. when on 9th faiway, watch out for Big TX'ns on 5th tee!)
Bay Harbor (challenging, some very nice views, expensive, ultimately uninspiring with several exceptions)
True North (one day)
Tullymore  (one day)
Pilgrim's Run  (one day)
Lakewood Shores - Gailes  (one day)
Angel's Crossing  (one day)

had good fun at Champion Hill one afternoon..

yeh i'm biased

[John Mayhugh]

So if can paraphrase what you're saying, it's a pushover at 6,500 yards.  Right?   

I have no idea, but I will say it was an absolute bitch to try and figure out at 6300yds.

Haha.  You gotta man up next time.

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