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Tim Gavrich

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I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« on: August 19, 2009, 10:52:19 PM »
...yeah, I know there are plenty of pics of this course in its "Courses by Country" profile, but the more the merrier, I say.

Entrance


1





2




3






4




5



6


("Dragon's Teeth" similar to those seen in Lester George's restoration of Old White)



7




8





9




10



(uh oh!)


11




12





13 (don't worry; I walked!)



14




15



16




17





18







Playing the course today reconfirmed that it is number 1 on my personal list.  I like it more than Pinehurst No. 2, more than TOC, more than Sunningdale, more than Palmetto, more than Shelter Harbor, more than Newport.  It's a Doak 9.5 in my book.  It has no fewer than 9 holes (4,8,9,10,11,12,14,17,18) that could vie for "world-class" status, IMO.  Restore the 3rd green to original size, put a thumbprint in the 5th green and redo the 16th green as a Raynor template green and that number becomes 12.

Thoughts?
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Bill_McBride

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2009, 11:07:15 PM »
Great photo tour, Tim, thanks!  #2 comes so early in the round that you really kind of forget what an incredible green that is, and #3 same thing, great Alps hole.  It's tough being one of the early holes at Yale!

Tim Gavrich

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2009, 11:16:42 PM »
Great photo tour, Tim, thanks!  #2 comes so early in the round that you really kind of forget what an incredible green that is, and #3 same thing, great Alps hole.  It's tough being one of the early holes at Yale!
That's definitely true.  There is not a single hole at Yale that is any less than really good--16 may be a little on the standard side, but the fact that it's an easier hole comes at the perfect time in the round makes up for it.  Numbers 2 and 3 are wonderful holes for sure, but I wouldn't quite put them in the league with 11 and 12.  The 3rd can be in that league if the green gets restored to go towards the water.

I want to defend the 13th briefly.  It is true that it does not have the classic Redan characteristics--you can't run the ball up the right side and curl it onto the green--but the green itself has some fantastic internal movement.  I had a delightfully tough and fun 60 footer from the right side of the green that broke about 12 feet.  And from the tee, the hole is visually spectacular (cart path intrusion notwithstanding).
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Tim Bert

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2009, 11:20:59 PM »
Blind #3 is all-world for me.  I look forward to playing that hole every time.

I'm so jealous of the pin position on #9.  Been there several times now and had the ho-hum front pin over water every time.  Did you play during the week or on the weekend?  Ive only been there on weekends and our theory is that they don't use the rear pin on weekends due to pace of play.

Kalen Braley

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2009, 11:21:44 PM »
With all those squared off features and manufactured green complexes looks like a course Jim Engh would be proud of.  Safe to say David M won't be teeing it up there anytime soon?   ;D  ;)

Craig Sweet

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2009, 11:23:47 PM »
I don't think there's that many trees in all of Montana.... :)

Tim Gavrich

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2009, 11:27:35 PM »
Tim B--

I have played both pin positions, I think, and the rear hole location is indisputably superior.  I played it today (Wednesday), so your theory may hold.

Kalen--

To heck with anyone who indicts Yale on its manufactured look and nature (I know you're not indicting it)!  It's an incredible achievement in engineering and the evidence of Man's hand adds to the beauty of it.

Craig--

You should've seen it 10 years ago!  It could do with a few more peripheral trees taken away on a few holes, but the golf course IS in a pretty heavily forested place, so denuding it would be silly and detrimental.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Adam Clayman

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2009, 11:34:39 PM »
Tim, Thanx for the tour.

I'm curious about the tenth hole. How long is it?

Does nearly every approach come from down below?

The reason I ask... The green's parameters appear completely blind from down there. Is that true?

If it is, I wonder why some holes get criticized for this rather cool aspect?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Chris Flamion

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2009, 11:48:19 PM »
Thanks for a great photo tour. 

Since I have been hovering GCA everyone(or close enought to everyone) has spoke so highly of Yale.  I now know why, it is such a beautiful piece of art.

On another note anyone have the depth of the Biarritz, it looks like I could hide my truck in their.

Morgan Clawson

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 12:02:57 AM »
Tim,

Great work.  I've always been curious about Yale - now I really want to play it. Love the look of the approach shots...

RJ_Daley

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 12:34:30 AM »
With warm regards to Dr. Geoff Childs...   ;) 8) 8) 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 12:47:40 AM »
Tim, Thanx for the tour.

I'm curious about the tenth hole. How long is it?

Does nearly every approach come from down below?

The reason I ask... The green's parameters appear completely blind from down there. Is that true?

If it is, I wonder why some holes get criticized for this rather cool aspect?
Adam--

Number 10 is a hair under 400 yards, and yes, the very bottom is the preferable spot to come in from.  It test's the player's powers of visualization of the hole location because like a few holes at Yale (7, 8 sort of, 10, 12) the flag is far more visible from the tee than from the fairway.

Everyone--

Do whatever you can to play Yale at least once before you go to the big golf course in the sky.  It's unique in the MacRaynor canon and in the world of golf at large.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

ed_getka

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 01:59:12 AM »
Thanks for the photo tour. Yale is definitely a great course, I wouldn't put it in the 9.5 range though. I think an 8 is more like it although I haven't been there since the improvements have been made in recent years. BTW, paraphrasing a Doak 8: is one of the best in the region, worth a special trip to see. May have some drawbacks but will make up for it with something very special.

 Kevin Pallier is coming up from Australia in a few months and he didn't think he would have time to get out there during his visit. I told him he had to go and see it as it showcases some of the brilliance of Macdonald and Raynor.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mike Sweeney

Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 06:21:56 AM »
Thanks for the photo tour. Yale is definitely a great course, I wouldn't put it in the 9.5 range though. I think an 8 is more like it although I haven't been there since the improvements have been made in recent years. BTW, paraphrasing a Doak 8: is one of the best in the region, worth a special trip to see. May have some drawbacks but will make up for it with something very special.

 Kevin Pallier is coming up from Australia in a few months and he didn't think he would have time to get out there during his visit. I told him he had to go and see it as it showcases some of the brilliance of Macdonald and Raynor.

Ed,

Wait two more seasons for Scott to get the greens even firmer. It is a very different place from the one that you saw, now many moons ago.

I told Kevin basically the same thing that if he could not get on National, Yale should be his next pick.

Nice tour Tim. Thanks and one of these days we will play up there together.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 06:38:33 AM by Mike Sweeney »

Mike Sweeney

Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 06:30:04 AM »
I was hiking last weekend in the Devil's Den Preserve in Weston CT with my son. It is probably 20 miles west of Yale but the terrain really reminded me of Yale. Connecticut has no shortage of rocks! So the question is, how in 1925 do you build a golf course out of this:

Devil's Den



"Hey Charlie, I am over here by where the Eden green will be?"

Tim Bert

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 08:52:36 AM »
Adam

I know I am not the Tim you are asking but I think #10 plays in the 360 to 380 range for me - one set up from the back tees. A well struck drive yields a short iron or wedge up the hill.

I believe this hole has a steeper ascent than #12 alps and #7 each of which are severe in their own right. #10 also has one of the most severely contoured greens on the course.

The best spot to see the pin is when you walk up the first hill before dropping into the valley but I wouldn't want to hit my approach from there. At least 200 and death if you are short.

Sean Remington (SBR)

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 09:21:14 AM »
Thanks for the great photos Tim.

Looking at them I can't help but think Yale would be a great host to a Major.  I think a US Open there would be awesome.

jim_lewis

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2009, 10:26:00 AM »
#18 looks pretty good when you chop it up into several peices, which may not be a bad idea.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2009, 10:41:02 AM »
I have always heard about Yale but never seen an extended pictorial...what a great looking golf course..another one for the wanted list.
thanks for the posting

Kevin Pallier

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2009, 10:49:54 AM »
Yale is definitely a great course....

 Kevin Pallier is coming up from Australia in a few months and he didn't think he would have time to get out there during his visit. I told him he had to go and see it as it showcases some of the brilliance of Macdonald and Raynor.

Ed / Mike

You have been big sellers of this course to me...one observation I get from the pics (thanks Tim) is that it isn't an "overly bunkered" course ? looks like there are a lot of little nuances around the greens as well ?

JMEvensky

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2009, 10:54:08 AM »
Yale has an endowment larger than some countries' GDP.Can't they afford to have the cobwebs cleaned from the entrance sign?

Great picture tour.Thanks for taking the time.

Jay Cox

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 11:07:59 AM »
Two questions, Tim:
(1)  What is so great about 11?  To me, it's the weakest par 4 on the course - though I think the par 4s as a group might be my favorite anywhere.
(2)  In college, when the course was empty but I only a little time to play, I almost always would play the front nine and the tenth, even though they would have let me start on 10 and play the back.  From your hole-by-hole assessment, I'm guessing you would have played the back.  To me, the middle of the back always felt more a little less exciting (although, to be fair, they hadn't fixed 12 yet at the time).  If you do think the back is better than the front, why?

Tim Gavrich

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 11:22:44 AM »
Yale is definitely a great course....

 Kevin Pallier is coming up from Australia in a few months and he didn't think he would have time to get out there during his visit. I told him he had to go and see it as it showcases some of the brilliance of Macdonald and Raynor.

Ed / Mike

You have been big sellers of this course to me...one observation I get from the pics (thanks Tim) is that it isn't an "overly bunkered" course ? looks like there are a lot of little nuances around the greens as well ?
Kevin--

You've got it right.  The bunkering is restrained where it should be and heavy where it should be.  And as for the greens, there are countless subtleties within them.  It's an unbelievable golf course.  No matter where else you play on your US trip, I suspect it will be one of your favorites.

Ed Getka--

The golf course is a good deal better than it was the last time you played it.  Superintendent Scott Ramsey has done so much to improve many, many aspects of the golf course that had fallen into neglect over the years.  There are probably a few more things to be done eventually, but what is there now is absolutely wonderful.

Jim Lewis--

When was the last time you played Yale?  The 18th is probably the most profoundly improved hole from its former state.  I believe a couple hundred trees were removed on that hole alone!  Now the left/right fairway option is available for the second shot.  In my opinion, it's the perfect ending to the journey around Yale.

Jay--
1) I found number 11 to be very visually appealing off the tee, with a fantastically rumpled fairway that terminates at a very fine Reverse-Redan green.  It's certainly a hole where the player is thinking about making birdie after the tough stretch of 8-9-10.  The fairway is fairly narrow with heavy rough on either side, but the openness of the front of the green allows players to try and get lucky from a bad lie--perfect example of risk-reward, to me.  The par 4 I found to be less engaging than the rest was number 6.
2) I think I give the slight edge to the back because of the stretch from 10-14, where each hole offers a very different look and feel and challenge, and the final two holes, which are a stout "final challenge."  15 is a delightful Eden hole, especially with the restored fierceness of the green, but the Eden, I find, is the most straightforward of all the Raynor/Macdonald template holes.  16 is a very good hole as well, but as has been said by many, its green is one of the more plain on the course because it is not in Raynor's original location.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Carl Nichols

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 11:32:30 AM »
I only played Yale one time, in 1994 (I think), and I was pretty underwhelmed.  This looks like an entirely different course; I definitely need to get back. 

Dan_Callahan

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Re: I'll let these pictures speak for themselves...
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 11:50:44 AM »
I'm right there with you, Tim. Yale is number 1 on my list as well. The tree clearing and course conditions have improved dramatically over the last 5 years.

I definitely prefer the front to the back. The first 4 holes are an amazing collection of par 4s. I love the look of the par 3 5th. The 6th isn't all that memorable, but still a good hole. And then I love the variety of challenge presented on the closing three holes. 7 with the approach to an extremely elevated green. 8 with the temptation off the tee to cut off the left side and then knowing that an approach that misses left or right is absolutely dead. And finally 9, which is one of a kind.

10 might be my favorite hole on the course, but I think it's safe to say that any architect who built it today would get hammered. A blind approach to a green with that much slope and movement is insane. I love it.

I am not a huge fan of 14 ... it seems kind of wedged in there where everything else in the routing seems to fit so naturally. I do like that green, though, with the steep drop off the back.

And 16 is a boring hole. It could be on any $20 muni in New England and fit right in.

I used to absolutely hate 18, but the changes have saved it.

I used to coach with a guy who had a standing bet that not one of our golfers could play 18 at Yale without a single three-putt. No one was ever able to take him up on it. Those are some of the most amazing greens in the world, in my opinion.