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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2009, 02:24:31 PM »
So Kalen, what exactly are you saying there? Please be clear about it. Are you saying you think it is pointless for me or anyone else on here to even respond to Tom MacWood's constant questioning about Tillinghast's financial problems in 1936 including mortgage and tax lien details?

If you don't want to get into a simple yes or no to the second question will do.  ;)

Tom in simple terms, my answer is Yes.  If it isn't true, then whats the point debating it?  At some point its like debating Santa Claus....there is nothing to debate right?   ;D

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2009, 02:33:23 PM »
Phil, PHIL; PHILIP; PHILIP YOUNG, do you hear me Goddamnit to Hell???

Just look at what Kalen and Jeff just said! Get back on here on the Tilly Consultation Tour thread that is now on page three with the last post by MacWood that must have been some kind of death knell. He wanted to know what Tilly thought of Macdonald or at least why he never criticized Macdonald until after he was dead. I don't know what Tilly really thought of Charlie----you probably know that better than me but I do know that from around 1922 on Charlie said he thought everyone was a damn idiot and I have that in writing.  ;)

WE will endeavor to shitcan this diversionary "Curious Tilly Transformation" thread if you will continue with your thread on Tilly's PGA Consultation Tour thread and/or continue with Tilly on architecture and not financial and mortgage and tax lien problems.

Get crackin' Bud, and if Tom MacWood tries to divert you we will all endeavor to simply ignore his inconsequential diversionary questions and grillings.

PS:
What is the official spelling of Tilly? Is it Tilly or Tillie or didn't he care? Did anyone ever call him like Albert or Al or A.W.? ;)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 02:37:53 PM by TEPaul »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2009, 02:40:27 PM »
Phil, PHIL; PHILIP; PHILIP YOUNG, do you hear me Goddamnit to Hell???

Just look at what Kalen and Jeff just said! Get back on here on the Tilly Consultation Tour thread that is now on page three with the last post by MacWood that must have been some kind of death knell. He wanted to know what Tilly thought of Macdonald or at least why he never criticized Macdonald until after he was dead. I don't know what Tilly really thought of Charlie----you probably know that better than me but I do know that from around 1922 on Charlie said he thought everyone was a damn idiot and I have that in writing.  ;)

WE will endeavor to shitcan this diversionary "Curious Tilly Transformation" thread if you will continue with your thread on Tilly's PGA Consultation Tour thread and/or continue with Tilly on architecture and not financial and mortgage and tax lien problems.

Get crackin' Bud, and if Tom MacWood tries to divert you we will all endeavor to simply ignore his inconsequential diversionary questions and grillings.

PS:
What is the official spelling of Tilly? Is it Tilly or Tillie or didn't he care? Did anyone ever call him like Albert or Al or A.W.? ;)

Here here...I second the motion.  Crack those knuckles and get back to work!!  ;D

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2009, 02:50:18 PM »
Screw Phillip and Tillie's Magical Mystery Tour.

When will Pat Mucci get back to his enchanted journey around NGLA?When we last left him,I think he was on the 6th tee.This could be the mother of all slow play penalties.

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2009, 03:02:38 PM »
"Tom in simple terms, my answer is Yes.  If it isn't true, then whats the point debating it?  At some point its like debating Santa Claus....there is nothing to debate right?    ;D"


Kalen:

If what isn't true? Your Yes? Do you mean if your Yes isn't true what's the point debating Your Yes? If we debate whether your Yes isn't true, you say at some point it's like debating Santa Claus?! Do you mean Santa Claus's Yes or Santa Claus himself?

Perhaps first we may need to bring in some of our best word parsers and debate for awhile what "Yes" and "Santa Claus" means to various people. Maybe they mean the same thing and maybe they don't. What if we can't get a consensus on that? Personally, I never really saw that much similarity between "Yes" and "Santa Claus" but maybe that's just me and not you? We should debate that for a while too, I think. Frankly, I never gave that much thougbht to some similarity between "Yes" and "Santa Claus." Stupid me, I guess, huh? It actually does sound like quite the epistemological question for sure.

And you said: "In simple terms, my answer is Yes."

But what if we go beyond simple terms and get into some complex terms? What is your answer going to be then----something like "No" or "Maybe" or perhaps "Just because?"

Come on Kalen, you know we get into some highly intellectual and pretty tricky shit on here, so Man Up and deal with it would you please?

By the way, what the hell kinda name is Kalen anyway? I can't get a good enough fix on it to get comfortable with you. If you don't want to tell me in extreme detail what kind of name Kalen is just tell me if you've ever had dreams about being either a dictator or a communist. That will do fine for me for now but by the end of the year I damn well demand to know which end of the spectrum you and your name are on----the dictator end or the communist end. I can actually live with either, believe it or not, but if I find out you're one of those golf architectural Taliban-dits you will be in some seriously deep shit one of these days.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 03:08:06 PM by TEPaul »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2009, 03:12:48 PM »
"Tom in simple terms, my answer is Yes.  If it isn't true, then whats the point debating it?  At some point its like debating Santa Claus....there is nothing to debate right?    ;D"


Kalen:

If what isn't true? Your Yes? Do you mean if your Yes isn't true what's the point debating Your Yes? If we debate whether your Yes isn't true, you say at some point it's like debating Santa Claus?! Do you mean Santa Claus's Yes or Santa Claus himself?

Perhaps first we may need to bring in some of our best word parsers and debate for awhile what "Yes" and "Santa Claus" means to various people. Maybe they mean the same thing and maybe they don't. What if we can't get a consensus on that? Personally, I never really saw that much similarity between "Yes" and "Santa Claus" but maybe that's just me and not you? We should debate that for a while too, I think. Frankly, I never gave that much thougbht to some similarity between "Yes" and "Santa Claus." Stupid me, I guess, huh? It actually does sound like quite the epistemological question for sure.

And you said: "In simple terms, my answer is Yes."

But what if we go beyond simple terms and get into some complex terms? What is your answer going to be then----something like "No" or "Maybe" or perhaps "Just because?"

Come on Kalen, you know we get into some highly intellectual and pretty tricky shit on here, so Man Up and deal with it would you please?

By the way, what the hell kinda name is Kalen anyway? I can't get a good enough fix on it to get comfortable with you. If you don't want to tell me in extreme detail what kind of name Kalen is just tell me if you've ever had dreams about being either a dictator or a communist. That will do fine for me for now but by the end of the year I damn well demand to know which end of the spectrum you and your name are on----the dictator end or the communist end. I can actually live with either, believe it or not, but if I find out you're one of those golf architectural Taliban-dits you will be in some seriously deep shit one of these days.

Tom Paul,

1st things 1st...lay off the juice till a little later in the day OK?

2nd - Well said, and I can't debate that.  I am now utterly convinced that you are not only Waynes daddy and he is your piss-boy, but the same must also be true of Pat as well.  Surely you taught him everything he knows and then some!!  ;D

3rd - Supposedly my name is found somewhere in the Old Testament of the Bible, but I can't confirm this as well I've never read it!  Either way it is tricky and has confused many a person cause it really can go either way. Matter of fact I've seen more Girls variations like Kalin, Kaylin, etc.

4th - Enough of this OT stuff and lets give Phil some more encourgement to get back in the water....its still nice and warm.  Cmon, Phil, you can do it!   ;)

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2009, 03:25:29 PM »
"3rd - Supposedly my name is found somewhere in the Old Testament of the Bible, but I can't confirm this as well I've never read it!  Either way it is tricky and has confused many a person cause it really can go either way. Matter of fact I've seen more Girls variations like Kalin, Kaylin, etc."



If you can't confirm it my suggestion to you would be to get in touch with Tom MacWood and get him to see if he can find the name in like an old newspaper article from around 66 BC in the Canaan Gazetter or some comparable newspaper from the Holy Lands.



"1st things 1st...lay off the juice till a little later in the day OK?"

Don't you worry about that, my boy. I have never in my life hit the juice until the moon is well over the jabberwuffy.


« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 03:29:59 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2009, 03:47:16 PM »
"Screw Phillip and Tillie's Magical Mystery Tour.

When will Pat Mucci get back to his enchanted journey around NGLA?When we last left him,I think he was on the 6th tee.This could be the mother of all slow play penalties."



Jeff:

That is not likely to happen. Mucci knows damn well if he even tries to leave the 6th green and proceed to that nonsensical 7th tee addition idea of his which would be practically on top of the 12th green that I will be out there on the right side of that hole hiding in what should have been Macdonald's Road Hole railroad shed replication, and I while bushwack his ass once and for all and that will be the total end of him on here!

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #83 on: August 27, 2009, 03:57:05 PM »
"Screw Phillip and Tillie's Magical Mystery Tour.

When will Pat Mucci get back to his enchanted journey around NGLA?When we last left him,I think he was on the 6th tee.This could be the mother of all slow play penalties."



Jeff:

That is not likely to happen. Mucci knows damn well if he even tries to leave the 6th green and proceed to that nonsensical 7th tee addition idea of his which would be practically on top of the 12th green that I will be out there on the right side of that hole hiding in what should have been Macdonald's Road Hole railroad shed replication, and I while bushwack his ass once and for all and that will be the total end of him on here!

All well and good,but I've never played NGLA and I want to at least see hole-by-hole pictures.Why don't you and he continue the tour in a Siskel/Ebert-type commentary?That way,you can easily point out his obvious misinterpretations of CBM.

You can always wait to bushwhack him until after he's putted out at 18.

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2009, 04:11:21 PM »
"You can always wait to bushwhack him until after he's putted out at 18."


If I actually waited until he putted out on 18 that would not technically be a bushwack; that would be more like one of those human sacrifice jobs like when the Mayans threw all those dumb smucks off the top of the temple to their death on the rock below.
 
 

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #85 on: August 27, 2009, 04:25:03 PM »
   
   smucks
 
 

If I convert to Episcopalian,do I have to forgo Yiddish fluency AND give back my bar mitzvah gifts?

You know,the upshot of this bullshit is that we've probably ruined anyone's attempt to jump back into a discussion of whether or not Tillinghast was transformed.A massive thread derailment.

So,we've got that going for us.

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #86 on: August 27, 2009, 04:52:30 PM »
"smucks
 
 
If I convert to Episcopalian,do I have to forgo Yiddish fluency AND give back my bar mitzvah gifts?"



Jeff:

A smuck is a word Episcopalians use for people who have backbones like jam or jelly like in Smuckers. What is a Schmuck or Shmuck?

As far as derailing this thread, don't worry about it----a momentary humorous diversion is a whole lot better any day than arguing about tax liens on property in New Jersey in 1936!  ;)

And what the hell is the deal with this giving back of your Bar Mitzvah gifts? Is this like a really big fear or concern or something or are you really looking to unload them? If it's the latter then just bring 'em all up here to the Walker Cup and I'll take them all off your hands. I'll basically take anything and if I don't like them I'll just pawn 'em.

And tell me something about Bar Mitzvahs. If they are anything like that outrageous Fernanda Wanamaker Wetherill deb party in Southampton Long Island I went to back in '63 and consequently got indicted for I want to go to every Bar Mitzvah I can find.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #87 on: August 27, 2009, 05:14:14 PM »

And tell me something about Bar Mitzvahs. If they are anything like that outrageous Fernanda Wanamaker Wetherill deb party in Southampton Long Island I went to back in '63 and consequently got indicted for I want to go to every Bar Mitzvah I can find.

The only differences I can think of would be that bar mitzvahs probably have less drinking and fewer goyim-other than that,the same.Just guessing,but I doubt that there were many deb party/bar mitzvah scheduling conflicts in Southampton in 1963.

That said,at the time,my 2 best presents were a Mickey Mantle baseball glove and a dozen Spalding Dots.You can't have the glove and the Dots are probably still scattered around various hazards in Memphis.

I'll consider trading the glove for a date with Fern.If things work out between us,we'll have you over for our first Christmas/Hanukkah party.

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #88 on: August 27, 2009, 06:03:09 PM »
"I'll consider trading the glove for a date with Fern."

Trading the Mickey Mantle glove for a date with Fern? Well don't offer to trade it to me if I get you a date with Fern. I'll just call her up and tell her there's a guy from Memphis who is willing to trade a Mickey Mantle glove for a date. I don't exactly remember it's been so many years now but it is very possible that Fern might get extremely turned on by a Mickey Mantle baseball glove or by getting an actual MM baseball glove for a standard Southampton or Palm Beach regulation hot date. Would you like me to ask her what exactly she needs to do for you during this hot date for the MM glove or would you prefer to ask her yourself at the time?

Aaah, Jeff, do I need to remind you that all those Fern stories and such were from back in the 1960s when we were all about 17 and 18 and 19 and early 20s? We are all in our 60s now!   :'( ;) ::) :-*

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #89 on: August 27, 2009, 06:54:38 PM »
You know,

I've been watching these threads while sitting on the sidelines, and thats all fine and good because I know little about Tillinghast and appreciate Phillip's effort and enjoy these threads.

What I don't get though is why these kinds of threads can't just be about the man and his work?  Why do some feel compelled to drag all this other stuff into the discussion?  Everyone's got thier skeletons and thier struggles in thier personal life so why do these discussions always seem to turn this way?

For once can we just keep that other stuff out?

Thanks,

Kalen


Kalen
Since your suggestion I see about a page and a half of other stuff.

By the way I started this thread, not Phil, and it was started separately so as not to divert his thread on Tilly's tour. If you are interested in getting that thread back on track making a post to that effect might be a good idea. Here it is:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40971.70/

As far as this thread is concerned, if you or TEP see no good reason to delve into Tilly's financial problems no one is forcing either one of you to post.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #90 on: August 27, 2009, 07:18:25 PM »
You know,

I've been watching these threads while sitting on the sidelines, and thats all fine and good because I know little about Tillinghast and appreciate Phillip's effort and enjoy these threads.

What I don't get though is why these kinds of threads can't just be about the man and his work?  Why do some feel compelled to drag all this other stuff into the discussion?  Everyone's got thier skeletons and thier struggles in thier personal life so why do these discussions always seem to turn this way?

For once can we just keep that other stuff out?

Thanks,

Kalen


Kalen
Since your suggestion I see about a page and a half of other stuff.

By the way I started this thread, not Phil, and it was started separately so as not to divert his thread on Tilly's tour. If you are interested in getting that thread back on track making a post to that effect might be a good idea. Here it is:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,40971.70/

As far as this thread is concerned, if you or TEP see no good reason to delve into Tilly's financial problems no one is forcing either one of you to post.

Tom,

Thats all fine and good, but it doesn't seem to be the reason why you started this thread..and you did bring it up with the "desperate times called for desperate measures" dig.

I will agree that Tillie and his work should carry on in the other thread(s).

Kalen

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #91 on: August 27, 2009, 07:37:05 PM »
"As far as this thread is concerned, if you or TEP see no good reason to delve into Tilly's financial problems no one is forcing either one of you to post."


Tom:

I don't really see any good reason to delve into Tilly's financial problems the way you're trying to discuss it by denying that what he went through with his real and personal problems makes no sense at all. Of course it makes sense, and was something that very much happened back then even if you try to deny it. I think this arguing about tax liens and foreclosures and such is fairly inconsequential anyway to Tillinghast's life and times in golf architecture.

It's pretty apparent you bring up these inconsequential points to try to support and supplement your real point which is it all adds up to the fact that he was desperate and broke in the 1930s and therefore did things on that PGA Tour that diverged from his real or original principles about golf course architecture generally.

You tried to make that point on here years ago and you're trying to make it again on these threads. To whatever degree most just don't seem to agree with you so for that reason I think Kalen and I agreed what is the point of discussing this kind of financial minutae with you? I'm willing to stop discussing it with you, Kalen seems willing to stop, Cirba, Young, Crosby don't want to continue with you anymore so I'm not sure who is at this point. But if you want to continue good luck to you, I hope for your sake there is someone left willing to do it.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 07:39:07 PM by TEPaul »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #92 on: August 27, 2009, 10:03:37 PM »

Screw Phillip and Tillie's Magical Mystery Tour.

When will Pat Mucci get back to his enchanted journey around NGLA?

When we last left him,I think he was on the 6th tee.

This could be the mother of all slow play penalties.


JMEvensky,

I haven't forgotten, I've just been too busy to devote the time necessary to make sure that I do the descriptions justice.

If Hurricane Dan takes up residence off the coast and washes out any prospects of golf this weekend, I'll try to continue the journey.

Some of my favorite holes lie ahead.

Could you do me a favor and bring the thread back to the first page.

Thanks

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #93 on: August 27, 2009, 10:09:45 PM »

"Screw Phillip and Tillie's Magical Mystery Tour.

When will Pat Mucci get back to his enchanted journey around NGLA?When we last left him,I think he was on the 6th tee.This could be the mother of all slow play penalties."

Jeff:

That is not likely to happen.
Mucci knows damn well if he even tries to leave the 6th green and proceed to that nonsensical 7th tee addition idea of his which would be practically on top of the 12th green that I will be out there on the right side of that hole hiding in what should have been Macdonald's Road Hole railroad shed replication, and I while bushwack his ass once and for all and that will be the total end of him on here!


JMEvensky,

TEPaul has a terrible time with spacial relationships, much more so than his relationships with dogs, women and custodians/guards.

The extending of the 7th tee, back towards the existing footpad that exists jush shy of Whites Lane would bring the right side bunker complex back into play for the longer hitters who can currently disregard that feature, a feature that replaced the RR Sheds/Hotel in CBM's version of the "Road Hole"

If you'll just go to "Google Earth"  you can see that the 7th tee has room to be extended back toward Whites Lane.

But, I'll get to that when describing hole # 7.


TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2009, 10:23:43 PM »
"The extending of the 7th tee, back towards the existing footpad that exists jush shy of Whites Lane would bring the right side bunker complex back into play for the longer hitters who can currently disregard that feature, a feature that replaced the RR Sheds/Hotel in CBM's version of the "Road Hole""


You got that right Patrick! If NGLA has the lack of sense to take you seriously and add that tee on #7 back there, that tee shot LZ on the right where that smuck Macdonald should've put replicated railroad sheds is precisely where I will be lying in wait to totally bushwack your ass!


Patrick_Mucci

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2009, 10:47:57 PM »
TEPaul,

I'll have to look at it again when I next visit, but that location is the ideal location to construct a dual tee, one for the 7th hole and one for the 13th hole.

You may recall that I suggested that CBM attempted to craft two distinct approaches into the 13th green at NGLA, one replicating the approach to # 7 at TOC and the other replicating the approach to # 11 at TOC.

The extending and melding of a back tee on # 7 with a new tee back and left of the 12th green for # 13 (replicating the approach into # 7 at TOC) would be the ideal configuration.

Simply playing # 4 as a par 4 is NOT a viable solution since it allows the golfer, the long hitter, to simply ignore CBM's wonderful right side bunker complex amongst the faux dunes.  Extending the tee returns that complex into play, as it was always intended.

What you DON'T understand is that flying that complex provides the golfer with the ideal approach angle into that diagonal green, whereas, if the golfer has to drive left, rather than over it, his angle of attack is into the diagonal green, not along its axis which makes for a far easier approach.  That green is about 43 yards deep, meaning that the golfer who flies the "hotel" bunker complex has that entire 43 yards at his disposal on his approach, whereas, if the drive is forced left, the golfer doesn't have the entire 43 yards of green to work with, he must attack the green from a less desirable angle into a much narrower target, probably 10 to 20 yards at most, and, he must contend with the "road hole" fronting bunker and the deep bunker at the entire right flank of the green, which, from that angle is the back of the green.

I realize, that without your faithful companion, Coorshaw, you're at a loss to understand these blatant and nuanced differences created by extending the tee back towards Whites Lane.

Today, a carry of less than 250 clears the entire right side "hotel" bunker complex

Taking the tee back 20-30-40 yards would radically alter play and return the play of the hole to CBM's intended strategy.

In my monthly conversation with CBM, I mentioned that you were opposed to my suggestion.
To which CBM responded, "What the "F" does he know ?  He's a farmer from Philadelphia and a fanatical Merion/Flynnophile, tell him to stay on the west bank of the Delaware and leave the sophisticated design concepts to us.  Next he'll be telling everyone that I had little or nothing to do with Merion" ;D

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2009, 11:00:36 PM »
"As far as this thread is concerned, if you or TEP see no good reason to delve into Tilly's financial problems no one is forcing either one of you to post."


Tom:

I don't really see any good reason to delve into Tilly's financial problems the way you're trying to discuss it by denying that what he went through with his real and personal problems makes no sense at all. Of course it makes sense, and was something that very much happened back then even if you try to deny it. I think this arguing about tax liens and foreclosures and such is fairly inconsequential anyway to Tillinghast's life and times in golf architecture.

It's pretty apparent you bring up these inconsequential points to try to support and supplement your real point which is it all adds up to the fact that he was desperate and broke in the 1930s and therefore did things on that PGA Tour that diverged from his real or original principles about golf course architecture generally.

You tried to make that point on here years ago and you're trying to make it again on these threads. To whatever degree most just don't seem to agree with you so for that reason I think Kalen and I agreed what is the point of discussing this kind of financial minutae with you? I'm willing to stop discussing it with you, Kalen seems willing to stop, Cirba, Young, Crosby don't want to continue with you anymore so I'm not sure who is at this point. But if you want to continue good luck to you, I hope for your sake there is someone left willing to do it.

TEP
Cirba, Young, and Crosby can speak for themselves, but if I was in their shoes I might do the same thing. Thankfully there are many others honestly interested in uncovering the truth, whatever it may be. Golf architecture history is a fascinating subject.

As far as denying what Tilly went through I think you have me confused with Phil, and yourself. Phil is the one who has come up with this story that Tilly was a victim of a financially strapped landlord and got there just in a nick of time to repurchase all his belongings. That story fits in nicely with his contention Tilly did not dramatically alter his architectural philosophy due to the fact he was at the end of his rope.

And you are the one who is unable to put Tilly's property tax situation in an historical context...you seem to be oblivious to what was going on in the country at the time, and what extraordinary measures were being taken to help the average Joe.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 11:02:50 PM by Tom MacWood »

TEPaul

Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2009, 11:14:56 PM »
Dream on Tom MacWood. If there are any discussants left on here for you on subjects like Merion, Myopia, Tillinghast etc, why don't we just see?

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2009, 11:26:04 PM »
TEP
One day you will understand the subject is much broader than you realize.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tilly's Curious Transformation
« Reply #99 on: August 28, 2009, 06:27:50 AM »
This is getting very old.  While I disagree with much of Tommy Mac's analysis and how he approaches subjects in a cloak and dagger maner,  at least he is playing the game with proper contributions.  TPaul, you are like an airborne disease caught on a breeze.  Any thread you participate in is infected with nonsense.  Give it a rest already.  We get it.  You don't like Tommy Mac.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing