Worst holes on otherwise great courses?

[Bart Bradley]

I often find that I remember a golf course's best and worst holes; and admit that the worst holes often color my perceptions as much as the best holes.  What are the worst holes on otherwise great or very good golf courses?

I might nominate a couple of choices from my experiences over the last year...

I enjoyed Crystal Downs immensely ..but #9 just seemed so out of place and a disappointing ending to a wonderful front nine.

I LOVED Ballybunion ...I think it might be my favorite course so far...but I will admit that #4 was a fairly strategic-less uninteresting par 5.

You?

Bart

[Anthony Gray]

  I can gues that PB 12 is going to get beat up here again but I do not have a problem with it.

  Anthony

[Tom_Doak]

The ninth at Crystal Downs?

Seriously?

I might hazard a guess where you hit your tee shot.

[Bart Bradley]

Tom:

Actually Tom I hit the green both times on 9 at Crystal Downs...and noone in my group went left.  Do you really feel that hole fits with the rest of the front nine...it feels cramped to me?

Thanks for your input,

Bart

[Chip Gaskins]

Merion #11
Crystal Downs #9
Bandon Trail #18
Chicago Golf #17
Pebble #15
Ballybunion #1
Portrush #17

The list is long....to me, that is what separates the true "10s" from the other great courses....RCD, Pine Valley, Shinnecock, simply have no clunker holes....the next tier (probably 10-15 courses) do have at least one hole that is a head scratcher....BUT they are still top top tier

[David Stamm]

While I don't think it's a "bad" hole, the 14th at Riviera gets no love from quite a few that play there. 12 at GCGC is another, although I think it's more a hole that is out of character with the rest of the course. The present 2nd at LACC North is not a hole I care for. The 15th at Rustic is not as good as the rest of the course. The green is over the top unreasonable, IMHO.

[Adam Clayman]

#11 @ Merion, Chip? Can you articulate your justification for labeling it the worst?


The worst hole at Pebble is the new fifth.


What's the worst hole at Augusta?

[David Stamm]

What's the worst hole at Augusta?

16 perhaps?

[Chip Gaskins]

Adam-

My two issues with #11 are:

1) a 200+ yard shot to a blind landing area pinched in by heavy rough (same issue I have with #4)





2) a sharp edge green complex similar to TPC Sawgrass....especially if/when you miss the blind ribbon wide fairway

[Tom_Doak]

Well, Chip has picked four holes which I think are excellent golf holes.

Anybody else want to stick their neck out?

Mr. Stamm:  16 at Augusta is also a terrific hole in my book.

[Adam Clayman]

Chip, Maintenance presentation aside. The sharp edged green is a reason not to like a hole?

Ross, believed in the exact nature of an approach. So did many others. Why don't you?

[Kevin_Reilly]

Anybody else want to stick their neck out?

Every course has a worst hole....there's a bottom 10% at CalTech who all probably got 760+ on the math SAT. 

Locally to me...at SF Club I'd choose among #4, 8 and 11.  Need to wait to see the new work at #14.

Olympic...12 or 13.



 

[J_ Crisham]

Merion #11
Crystal Downs #9
Bandon Trail #18
Chicago Golf #17
Pebble #15
Ballybunion #1
Portrush #17

The list is long....to me, that is what separates the true "10s" from the other great courses....RCD, Pine Valley, Shinnecock, simply have no clunker holes....the next tier (probably 10-15 courses) do have at least one hole that is a head scratcher....BUT they are still top top tier

Chip,  I disagree with #11 at Merion. I felt the 1st hole was so-so at Merion. 11 was scary from the left rough but hey, I put it in the rough. CD #9 was pretty fun in my opinion. Left and you are dead- very tough target in a wind. I agree with you regarding PB15. CGC #17 is a hell of a hole from the back tee.I assume you have played it back. The forward tee of 380 yds or so is pretty uninspiring.  As I recall it played at about 450 yds and anything left is dead with the fescue. If you miss the fairway on this beast par is not going to happen.  No argument on 17 RP. 1 on Ballybunion is what it is -a soft start to a wonderful day. Just my thoughts.        Jack

[J_ Crisham]

11th hole at Interlachen. The things one could accomplish with a chainsaw on the right side of this hole!. A Cape hole that has been bastardized by planting silver maples the entire length of the right side in the landing area. Great green though,    jack

[DMoriarty]

For what is worth Richard Francis (one of the members of Hugh Wilson's Construction Committee long credited with initially designing Merion) didn't like the Modern version of Merion's 11th hole either.  If I recall correctly, he found the water around the green too exacting and he did not like that it effectively amounted to a two stroke penalty which he found to be too severe.

From the legend about it being MacKenzie's afterthought I expected the 9th at Crystal Downs to be a real dog, but I was pleasantly surprised.  Maybe it was low expectations but I enjoyed the hole.

David S., I agree that the 15th at Rustic is the weakest hole but it surprising how many golfers really like it.

Tom D.   
I was looking at Confidential Guide and noticed that you were not a big fan of the 11th (Railway) at Royal Troon.  I've never played it but have been trying to learn a little bit about it.  What was it that you didn't like?   As an aside, I noticed the hole now plays 480+ from the tips and fairly straight on but in the 1923 Open it apparently played at 315 and more from the left. 

[Bill_McBride]

Jeez, this is a lot like trying to pick the ugliest Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader.

#11 at Merion is one of the most famous holes in American golf.

#15 at Rustic Canyon is textbook on how to make a short par 3 a nightmare.

#9 at Crystal Downs.  Whew.  A long par 3 with nowhere to miss going home after a series of shortish par 4s and a par 5.  The green is bigger than it looks.  Man up and try to make a 3.

I suspect that every great 18 will have a hole that some will rank its weakest.  That's only to be expected, but it doesn't mean that's a weak hole!

[Jim Nugent]

What's the worst hole at Augusta?

#7?

[Kyle Harris]

I don't think we can judge the architecture of the hole based on the maintenance of the hole.

What if the fairway were widened?

[Steve Salmen]

The 17th at Machrihanish does not remotely fit with the rest of the holes.  It is like an American hole: hole goes down a hill, over a burn, back up the hill to the green.  OB left, tall rough right.  18 is weak but at least it has a little linksy character.

[Sean_A]

Jeez, this is a lot like trying to pick the ugliest Dallas Cowboys Cheerleader.

#11 at Merion is one of the most famous holes in American golf.

#15 at Rustic Canyon is textbook on how to make a short par 3 a nightmare.

#9 at Crystal Downs.  Whew.  A long par 3 with nowhere to miss going home after a series of shortish par 4s and a par 5.  The green is bigger than it looks.  Man up and try to make a 3.

I suspect that every great 18 will have a hole that some will rank its weakest.  That's only to be expected, but it doesn't mean that's a weak hole!

I am with Ace.  I can understand some holes not being stellar, but to pick a hole like Merion's 11th and call it a clunker is beyond me.  

That said, I will agree with the 17th at Portrush.  The only thing wore than a boring par 4 is a boring par 5.  When you see that amazing blowout bunker to the right off the tee and think that it wasn't used for either course, this has to be one of the biggest crank jobs Colt ever committed.

How bout the 9th at Cruden Bay?  What a shocker.  It has to be one of the few exceptions to the rule quoted above.  

I know some people have an inexplicable love for this hole, but they must have dust on their brains: TOC's 9th.

The Island's 10th, but I haven't seen the latest version.

Ooops, check the comment about Cruden Bay.  I ain't a great course.

Ciao

 

[Niall C]

Sean

I'm with you on Cruden Bay and 9th TOC.

Valderamma - for a course which regularly gets Best in Continental Europe it must have the worst set of par 5's of any good, never mind great, courses I've played. The 11th (I think, talking from memory) has a landing area for the drive which slopes so much that you land your ball in the left hand rough and watch it run all the way down to the right hand rough where theres a bunker waiting. Another par 5, can't remember the number , has a plateau green stuck on the left side of fairway with a stream running down the side of it. Then theres the 17th, built purely for the Volvo Masters, has a green which your average (prudent) player probably wouldn't attempt to hit with anything more than a wedge or 9 iron.

That said the course has some of the best par 4's I can remember.

Niall

[Ken Fry]

Gotta disagree with Crystal Downs #9.  The man excitement on that entire course means after four hours I should consult my doctor.  Not a weak hole out there.

In it's current form, #7 at Augusta has to get the nod.  As a short par 4, it had wonderful strategy and options from tee to green.  The green complex demanded a precise approach shot.  Now??

Ken

[Mark Pritchett]

#14 at Cuscowilla is not my cup of tea, however, the course remains a favorite.

[Chip Gaskins]

Well at least Richard Francis and I agree on Merion #11  For all of the strategic golf lovers on here #11 doesn't have many/any options.  220 dead straight and then 160 yards dead straight.  I realize it is probably constrained by maintenance practices, but it has been like that for a long time, its not just maintenance for a tournament.  I realize it is famous, but that doesn't make it good.  I also realize I am in the minority, if not the only one person on the planet, that doesn't think it is a very good hole, which I am fine with.

Obviously, this thread is about personal preference and I don't really like blind long iron shots or long uphill shots (Crystal Downs #9).

[Kyle Harris]

Where is it written/stated that every hole needs strategic options? Regardless of what is there, one still has to score....

Should every test be multiple choice?