Will there ever be another Strantz?

[CJ Carder]

I recently played a course down in Myrtle Beach for the 2nd time and again found it to be somewhat interesting, but rather bland to look at.  After reading the thread a few weeks ago on the Wild Wing Avocet and listening to Jeff Brauer's comments on making the course a little "fru fru," it only furthered my belief that for a course in that area to stand out, it needs to be something different.  And different is exactly what Strantz did with Caledonia and True Blue, two of the most popular courses in the area. 

All of this roundabout thought process peaked my curiosity about what people used to work for Strantz on his designs?  Where are they now?  And given their experiences with him, would any of them ever be likely to try and emulate his style?  While it wouldn't fit with the traditional nature of my little bland course in Myrtle Beach, I can't help but think that some courses might benefit from a llittle extra visual oddity given the American golfers propensity to need some visual stimulation.

What does everyone think?

[Adam Russell]

CJ -
I hope not- I think there is definitely a line, especially since his portfolio is so small. I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to design just to keep up the memory. And while I think Strantz was onto something really unique with his illusion tactics, I'd rather see his small amount of work preserved well than see someone from his office start turning out greatest hits.

[Jim Franklin]

I think Jim Engh thinks outside the box with big, bold green complexes. The Club at Black Rock was a treat to play on what looked like a difficult site.

[Eric Smith]

Forrest Fezler was his partner and his company website www.fezlergolf.com mentions at the top of the page that "The Maverick lives on."

So maybe they will try to emulate the style.  They are working on a new course in TX according to the site.

[Jay Flemma]

I hope so...I miss him terribly.  We do have TD and Brauer and Lester and Jim Engh though, so the maverick spirit is alive and well even though The Maverick (the definitive article), is playing up in Heaven and smiling down on us.

[Eric Strulowitz]

I recently played a course down in Myrtle Beach for the 2nd time and again found it to be somewhat interesting, but rather bland to look at.  After reading the thread a few weeks ago on the Wild Wing Avocet and listening to Jeff Brauer's comments on making the course a little "fru fru," it only furthered my belief that for a course in that area to stand out, it needs to be something different.  And different is exactly what Strantz did with Caledonia and True Blue, two of the most popular courses in the area. 

All of this roundabout thought process peaked my curiosity about what people used to work for Strantz on his designs?  Where are they now?  And given their experiences with him, would any of them ever be likely to try and emulate his style?  While it wouldn't fit with the traditional nature of my little bland course in Myrtle Beach, I can't help but think that some courses might benefit from a llittle extra visual oddity given the American golfers propensity to need some visual stimulation.

What does everyone think?

I have played several Strantz courses and I think he raised the bar in terms of visual appeal.  Unless you played his courses a few times, it was tough to post a good score.  You played them more for the fun, and the heroic carries, and the few pars you got, you feel like you had a great round.

His courses looked harder then they were.  Landing areas were wider than they looked from the tees.  Driver was not always a wise choice.











 

[Derek_Duncan]

I spoke to Fezler recently and he still identifies with much of what Strantz was doing with his designs. However, his business is primarily building courses for other architects, so we don't know what his own thoughts would look like in the ground at this point in his career or if they'd be anything as creative or fearless at what Strantz did. He spoke very highly of a project in Texas he's building for Lanny Wadkins, and I know he did some creative work for Davis and Mark Love at Ricefields south of Savannah opening this fall, though I haven't seen it yet.

I think, as Jim Franklin said, that Jim Engh is as close to a simpatico to Strantz as there is. Their looks so far have been different but I see a lot of similarity in spirit and creative approach. An emphasis on building courses that are interesting and entertaining.

[Jay Flemma]

don't underestimate jeff B or lester though...I tihnk lester sometimes looks a little like engh as well.

[Adam Russell]

You know what, if Mr. Young gets any edgier, we'll have to throw him in the mix too. I loved the turf ribbons at Longshadow.

[Ronald Montesano]

Derek, what is a simpatico?

I played Tot Hill today and Tobacco Road yesterday, running my total of Strantz originals to three.  It is clear that Strantz was not Coore, who is not (fill in the blank) and as a result, we cannot expect what Strantz did from another architect.  I ran into a fellow who confessed that he played Tot Hill five times a week.  I cannot imagine playing any course 5 times a week; I need variety.

One of the great elements of a Strantz course is the time spent between shots.  Hopefully fully esteemed, the traversing of his waste areas and the transgressing of mounds, mountains, vales and hollows (not to mention quarries and cliffs) is so much damned fun!

One of my favorite Strantz holes is the cauldron hole that I found at True Blue and Tobacco Road.  Perhaps a neo-Short, it is a Strantz original.  A semi-circle of tees and a semi-circle of green combine to form a near sphere.  Simply cool.

As they say in so many instances, we can hope that the spirit lives on and is reborn to some degree in another.  Until then, we have the courses that the man left us.

[Wade Whitehead]

We won't have another Mike Strantz, and shouldn't.  His work stands for itself and, fortunately, appears to be well enough preserved for us to enjoy.

Incidentally, Lester George's work, to me, doesn't look like Mike Strantz's.  It looks like Lester George's.  And that's saying a hell of a lot.

WW

[Derek_Duncan]

Ronald, I use simpatico to mean of like mind or spirit--sympathetic.

What I take from your enthusiasm for "the time spent between shots" at Tobacco Road is that you were engaged by the entire environment, not just the shots to be played and the fairways and greens before you. For me Tobacco Road is best enjoyed as a total experience that's slightly greater than the golf course alone. I've heard/read Jim Engh talk about standing in the middle of a golf hole and wanting to be turned on all directions, 360-degrees, and to me that's what happens with Strantz's best work. I think Engh is the closest to Strantz because he attempts to create environments of golf that function as a large whole, beyond simply golf shots, if that makes any sense.

On a separate note, I think the 17th at Tot Hill Farms is the strongest hole on the course, and it's easily the most conventional and un-Strantz.

Jay,

Interesting to hear you say Jeff Brauer and Lester George. It would never occur to me to group them with Mike Strantz. They both post here: gents, if you're reading this, would either of you say your work is similar to what Strantz was doing? 

[Wade Whitehead]

On a separate note, I think the 17th at Tot Hill Farms is the strongest hole on the course, and it's easily the most conventional and un-Strantz.

Derek: Does this mean you don't like his work or that you do?

WW

[Jay Flemma]

I think engh and lester look the most aliek...derek, I think engh and strantz THINK the same, but certainly dont look the same.  I think Jeff B looks the most like strantz.

[Carl Rogers]

I look forward to playing Royal New Kent next weekend for the second time.  First time, I was a lot more impressed by the front nine than the back.

CJ, always remember that the designer can not do what the client will not pay for.  The question might be more in the category of ... "Are there any more clients out there willing to be that adventuresome?"

I do think that for many projects to be successful in heavily built areas, they might be REQUIRED to be different to differentiate themselves from their neighbors.
 
'Me tooism' might not work.

[Michael Whitaker]

Ronald - I played 36 at Tobacco Road today (Fri) and am playing 36 at Tot Hill Farm tomorrow (Sat)!

 

[Ronald Montesano]

Mike Whitt

Sorry I missed you!  We played The Pit and Little River Farm on Monday, Southern Pines on Tuesday, Tobacco Road on Wednesday, Tot Hill Farm on Thursday and a real treat, Pete Dye Golf Club today, on the way home.

I agree that the 360 degree measuring stick is a unique and outstanding one.  I felt that at Tobacco and today at Pete Dye.  I DID NOT feel it for the most part at Tot Hill...I felt let down a bit by Tot Hill after Tobacco, until I realized that what was missing was that orange color!  It's like year-round autumn at Tobacco Road...in western New York, Fall is the memorable golf season, due to the explosion of leaf colors; same sensation at Tobacco.  With the exception of the big bunker on 3 at Tot Hill, no sand comes into play.

Has Tot Hill been truncated since it opened?  It looked like the waterfall double green joining 10 and 12 has been severed, the uppermost tier on 13 has been cut in half, and a few back tees are no longer being cut/cared for.  Tot Hill could use a tree removal program like no other course I've been on recently.  How they keep any grass on some of those tee decks is beyond me.

I would say that Holes 1, 7 and 9 are better par fours than 17.  The meadow holes (16-18) didn't inspire me much, even though I pitched in for eagle on 18.  I'd come to expect so much visually from Mike Strantz that this trilogy needed to give me more than grass to remain in my memory banks.

My next trip will be Williamsburg, as I want to play Royal New Kent and Stonehouse to further fill out my understanding of his work.

[Bob_Huntley]

I think engh and lester look the most aliek...derek, I think engh and strantz THINK the same, but certainly dont look the same.  I think Jeff B looks the most like strantz.

Jay,

Your post here does not reflect the Hemingway quote below. It is most unlike you.

Bob

[Mike_Young]

No....and with all due respect to Mike... why should there be?
I think this question should be asked again in 5 years...will the person that plays a Strantz course in 5...maybe 10 years...be playing the same thing so many admire here.....I don't know but it will be interesting to see if economy and maitenance allow many to remain the same....
I was playing a TF in Atlanta this week and the management company was already trying to figure how to eliminate bunkering.....I think we will see much of this in the next few years....

[Ronald Montesano]

Not meaning to hijack the thread, but what reason did they give beyond cost of maintenance?  I can't imagine eliminating bunkering on a Strantz original, although you can see where they would eliminate tee decks.  Tot Hill Farm could stand to drop about 90000 pounds in trees, but I don't believe that Strantz had a hand in creating that situation.

[Mike_Young]

Ronald maintenance was it.....nothing more.....
I think what many don't see is that many owners and especially developers could care less about the "original" of any architect...especially oce lots quit selling.....speed of play, playability and other factors will enter into all projects as this thing we are in evolves.....

[Ronald Montesano]

Tot Hill Farm regulars...the more I recollect, the more I ask...is it the humidity or the shade that beats up the tees?  They were incredibly ratty, although playable, last week.  The 14th was the worst, bubbling up under the trees, the goose shat and the humidity.  It's almost as if Mike Strantz sought the most shaded areas to drop his tee decks, which is extraordinary, should it be true.

[Jay Flemma]

I think engh and lester look the most aliek...derek, I think engh and strantz THINK the same, but certainly dont look the same.  I think Jeff B looks the most like strantz.

Jay,

Your post here does not reflect the Hemingway quote below. It is most unlike you.

Bob

Bob, with great respect, I'm doing double duty. I have two pieces a day, every day because one of the GO guys is sick.  I've had to do video as well, and on top of that, I have to play and review four more courses. I've slept 4 hours a night.

GCA must take a back seat, so please be good enough to overlook a rushed post.  The quality of the pieces I'm writing makes up for a misspelled word or missed comma on a bulletin board.

I appreciate your reading my posts and work, and your comment about precision; I really do.  I'm genuinely grateful.  But please take a moment in my shoes and appreciate how difficult it is for me to do all that...and then come in to at least say hi to everyone on a thread or two.  I'd hope that having a GCAer in the tent reporting back might be worth a word that isn't capitalized.

To paraphrase Hem himself in a letter:

"story most done, edit now must."

...or is that Yoda?  I never can remember.

[Bob_Huntley]

My dear Jay,

 I am not carping but I just find that particular piece no where near your usual standard of excellence. You must have been very tired.

Take it easy, have a drink and relax.

Bob

[cary lichtenstein]

I doubt there will ever be another Strantz. Just don't think financing will be available for projects that the banks will consider "unconventional"