Caddies and architecture

[Tom Huckaby]

I'm pretty much of the same mind as Brent... that is, the more I take caddies, the less inclined I am to seek them out.  Part of it is because I am inherently cheap and just don't want to pay for the luxury... but part of it also is I too have been a caddie earlier in life, and so knowing what I know... well... it makes me tend to enjoy their services less than I might.

By that I mean I get annoyed more than I should by deficiencies.

Luckily this hasn't happened often.  I'd say 95% of my caddie experiences have been great.  In fact, not to beat a dead CPC horse, but the caddie I had for my round with my Dad there absolutely MADE the day for us.. couldn't have been better getting my Dad around and treating him like a pro for a day, and a friend.  So hell yes caddies can be and usually are a great positive.

But this all digresses from the real question here, which is how might they effect one's appreciation of architecture?

And on that, I really think it depends on what one wants to know, and experience.  If you are in it for the study, seems to me a knowledgeable caddie would only help.  He's not gonna tell you things about the history or the like that you don't know already (if you are a student), but he IS gonna tell you things about how the course PLAYS that will be way beyond you as a visitor.  And how could that be anything but a positive?

[Brent Hutto]

Tom H reminds me of the "cheap" thing. I must admit to the same tendency to a certain extent.

Actually if I'm going to "sacrifice", so to speak, a round for the purposes of studying the course's architecture then maybe having a knowledgeable could be a help. In fact, I'm struck by the parallel between caddies and GCA-geeking ones way around the course camera in hand. Doing the "architecture thing" is very enjoyable in its own right but still produces an experience different from a plain old round of golf. Same with a personable and skilled caddie, it can add an element of specialness but it's not the same as me and Sean walking around the course and letting him take quarters from my pocket with his sandies and greenies and never-misses-a-four-footer putts

[Jeff Goldman]

Getting a bogus yardage which leads you to lay up in a hazard, can put a damper on the caddie-golfer relationship.   

[Kalen Braley]

I've found in my limited exprience that I have a better experience with the caddies who talk less and are closer to the "speak when spoken to" side of things.  And its not that I don't want to chit chat with them, because I do...I'm a very social person as anyone whose met me knows....I just usually want to chat about other things, not the stroke coming up.

Additionally, more often than not a "chatty" caddie is often telling me things I've pretty much already figured out for myself.  Sure they may have a nice nugget of info here and there, but I'd rather not wade thru all the rest to get to it.  If I have a question about something, I will be sure to ask.  And has been mentioned, usually I like figuring shots out for myself, especially putts.

I'm sure it was just an aberration but my only less-than-desireable caddie experience was at CPC.

[Tom Huckaby]

I'm sure it was just an aberration but my only less-than-desireable caddie experience was at CPC.

I think it is mostly an aberration.. others have reported less than desireable experience there but the vast majority has been positive... can others speak to this? 

Interesting, the great caddie for me and my Dad started the day with "I'll speak only as much as you want me to."  Kind of a nice way to do it, no?

[JMEvensky]

I think a lot of the problem some people have with caddies is that they expect their player/caddie relationship will be just like Tiger Woods/Steve Williams-including being able to suddenly hit it how/where the caddie tells them.

If you get good yardages and the bunkers raked for you,what else are you looking for?

[Eric Smith]

A few years ago while participating in the Zieman Challenge down on the RTJ Trail a friend of a friend brought along his own personal caddy from his club in Nashville.  I thought that was pretty cool as the player seemed ultra relaxed and had the lowest score on each of the three days of play, though he didn't have the lowest index.

Do any of you ever run across personal caddies (not affiliated with the club where you are playing) in your travels?  For the most part, I bet you can't bring your own caddy to a club that has caddies.  What about a club without caddies, public or private?  Is this practice acceptable?

I doubt the folks at RTJ Trail even knew about this guy's caddy, but I don't remember for sure.

[Mike Sweeney]

If you get good yardages and the bunkers raked for you,what else are you looking for?

For a caddy that understands how to make the round more enjoyable for all. If I am in a left fairway bunker and my partner is in the right rough, I want my caddy to give me a club and get over to my partner asap to keep pace of play moving. I will rake the bunker.

If they drop a bag for me to move to the other players ball, they can expect that I will carry my bag back to them to keep pace of play moving forward.

I always tell my caddy on the first tee that I used to be a caddy so he knows I am looking for a teammate for the day via the caddy bond.

I want my caddy to quietly cheer for his bag owners. I want him to quietly wish bad things to happen to my opponents swing, especially if it is Mayday.  

I want my caddy to love (okay like is fine) his job, and have fun for the day.

On the greens, I typically tell them I will ask for advice early on. Sometimes I want it and sometimes not.

I want Jim Jones at Kinloch. 95 degrees, 95% humidity on my first trip there and he basically carried my Northern Yankee butt in for the last three holes. Greatest caddy I ever had and it was because of his great attitude and not his ability to read a green that I will probably pull my putt on anyway.

[JMEvensky]

If you get good yardages and the bunkers raked for you,what else are you looking for?

For a caddy that understands how to make the round more enjoyable for all. If I am in a left fairway bunker and my partner is in the right rough, I want my caddy to give me a club and get over to my partner asap to keep pace of play moving. I will rake the bunker.

If they drop a bag for me to move to the other players ball, they can expect that I will carry my bag back to them to keep pace of play moving forward.

I always tell my caddy on the first tee that I used to be a caddy so he knows I am looking for a teammate for the day via the caddy bond.

I want my caddy to quietly cheer for his bag owners. I want him to quietly wish bad things to happen to my opponents swing, especially if it is Mayday.  

I want my caddy to love (okay like is fine) his job, and have fun for the day.

On the greens, I typically tell them I will ask for advice early on. Sometimes I want it and sometimes not.

I want Jim Jones at Kinloch. 95 degrees, 95% humidity on my first trip there and he basically carried my Northern Yankee butt in for the last three holes. Greatest caddy I ever had and it was because of his great attitude and not his ability to read a green that I will probably pull my putt on anyway.

Points taken.I SHOULD have qualified my statement to something like "most people,for whom caddies are a new/unusual experience...".

As a former caddie,I imagine you've seen the guy who couldn't understand why his $50 - $100 caddie fee didn't get him what he sees on TV every week.Of course,as a former caddie,I imagine you've been the guy who couldn't understand why just once you couldn't get the bag of someone who could actually make use of the information you gave him.

Without going totally "Melvin",the game of golf would be better if caddies were required everywhere,IMO.To paraphrase,there's golf and there's golf walking with a caddie.

[Mark Woodger]

i shot the best round of my life with a caddy and without him it would have been a lot lot worse! It was the first time i had had my own caddie it was at the Ocean Course, Kiawah. He was awesome and gave excellent direction all the way around and made the game simple (for that day at least). The conversation over each shot was just the info i needed. He gave me the line/yardage and i chose the club and i swung it.  I thought it took every other concern away from me and left me to just think about making a good swing.

I think all the other extra info about the course, tactical options etc etc was shared in conversations between shots so i still learnt about the course.

Did it take away from me figuring out the course for myself. A little, Yes. Did i care? No

[Mike Sweeney]

Without going totally "Melvin",the game of golf would be better if caddies were required everywhere,IMO.To paraphrase,there's golf and there's golf walking with a caddie.

I am not trying to be a jerk or similar, just pointing out a specific instance where carts are good.

I typically play Hidden Creek in the off season with my son who many here know is Autistic. It takes the support of the owner and GM and arguably some common sense by me to make it all work. There is no way we could do it walking. He has no physical issues, it just is nice to have a cart to jump around groups and stay out of people's way. During prime time/season, I take a caddie and would not take my son.

[Brent Hutto]

Without going totally "Melvin",the game of golf would be better if caddies were required everywhere,IMO.To paraphrase,there's golf and there's golf walking with a caddie.

He who says "A" must say "B"...

Your preference would necessarily limit the game to a few thousand people who can afford and wish to spend a couple hundred dollars for each and every round of golf they play. Frankly, a caddie couldn't possibly add his fee+tip in value to my Saturday and Sunday morning $10 dogfight games. And I've played many solo rounds (especially early or late in the day) where being in the presence of another person would have been a net negative.

Different, I'll buy. Better, not hardly.

[JMEvensky]

Without going totally "Melvin",the game of golf would be better if caddies were required everywhere,IMO.To paraphrase,there's golf and there's golf walking with a caddie.

He who says "A" must say "B"...

Your preference would necessarily limit the game to a few thousand people who can afford and wish to spend a couple hundred dollars for each and every round of golf they play. Frankly, a caddie couldn't possibly add his fee+tip in value to my Saturday and Sunday morning $10 dogfight games. And I've played many solo rounds (especially early or late in the day) where being in the presence of another person would have been a net negative.

Different, I'll buy. Better, not hardly.

Saying caddies should be required was,I admit,hyperbole.I should do a better job of thinking before typing.Sometimes I "overlook" the very reasonable exceptions.Mike Sweeney's would be exception # 1.Any "rule" that would deny a parent from playing with a child is a rule in need of exceptions.Apologies for painting with too broad a brush.


That said,there are many reasons why caddie fees must be as high as they are and very few of them have to do with the caddies themselves.All have been discussed before.

I guess my comment was mostly borne out of the frustration of trying to establish a caddie program and realizing that explaining the benefit of caddies to some people is like trying to explain the dark side of the moon-they haven't seen it so they don't understand.Caddie programs have become so rare,in my part of the world,that few are willing to even try to learn.God,I envy those places with ~ benevolent dictators.

[Mark Woodger]

http://www.officialwire.com/main.php?action=posted_news&rid=12124

here is another type of caddy. Not sure if they can provide much in the way of conversation though!