An Aronimink "Hater" Gives It Another Chance.

[mike_malone]

   I played Aronimink today for the first time since the restorative work that was done. The course reveals itself so much better without all of those silly evergreens.

 The greens are the strength of the course. They are huge and varied.
   
 It is a very good golf course.

       I still think the layout is prosaic; that's an upgrade from my previous opinion of boring !

      If they could eliminate one of those repetitive par fours and replace it with a classic short Ross par three it would enhance the overall experience.

     The land is not as interesting as other courses in the area .

    I wonder if all of the chipping areas are original. I thought it was a little overkill.


    TIGER WILL KILL THE COURSE!



   The conditioning is superb ; the club is first class.

[Kevin Pallier]

Mike

I've read numerous things about this course and are scheduled to try and see it in a few months time.

How does it differ from another Ross course in the NE region like Plainfield ?

[J_ Crisham]

Mike,  I played here 3 weeks ago this being my second trip to Aronimink.  I have played Lancaster, Merion, Gulph Mills, HVCC, andStonewall.  I feel that AGC has a nice flow to the property similar to what I saw at Gulph Mills. The conditioning was excellent, the greens firm and fast. Not sure what you fail to like at AGC but we had a hell of a time there. What  a great clubhouse and patio for relaxing. I put this on my must list of places to spend a day when in Philly.      Jack

[Bill Brightly]

I have played Aronimink twice in the past three years and really liked it. I think the greens are superb, with lots going on. I hear the chipping areas were put in as part of the renovation. Seems to give it "Ross feel" and accent the shoulders on the greens.

One of the things I noticed that others may not is how well they "limb up" the hardwoods. I love that look. It is not cheap to do this, but I think it really adds to a classic look.

[mike_malone]

 Plainfield and Torresdale/Frankford would be two Ross courses that exceed AGC in the interesting terrain aspect. Gulph Mills has that wonderful short par three that I think would help the AGC experience. I also love what they have done to the trees. I'm sure Tiger will love it as well.

    I have real "memorability" issues with AGC. As I tried to go over my round in my mind this morning I got lost after a few holes into each nine.

[mike_malone]

 Let's take the first three holes at AGC and T/F as a comparison. #1--T/F has an interesting layup drive that leaves a short iron to a devilish green---AGC has a bust it drive with a mid to long iron to a big  two tiered green. If "interest" is the key factor T/F gets a slight nod. #2 T/F has a blind shot to a green that slopes away from front to back--AGC is a positional drive to a green with significant movement. Again T/F is giving you a look you don't often see versus the predictable nature of AGC. # 3  T/F may be the finest hole on the course with the demanding drive and the uphill shot to a fantastically undulating green---AGC has that typical look on the drive of staying away from the bunkers; the green is wonderful (back right yesterday!).

    Great courses need to be more than great greens or ,in the case of WFW, great green complexes. I thought yesterday that people must get taken by immense greens as are here and places like Merion and Yale. Yale has the terrain throughout that carries it to greatness; AGC falls short , for me, in variety, terrain, and  memorability.

     These criticisms are only because it is ranked as top 100. If we only want to see it as a great member's club then I agree it is exceptional.

[Rory Connaughton]

Aronimink is a manly course which as I understand it was the intent of Ross and the membership.  If it was located anywhere else in the country (MET excepted), it would receive even more praise than it does. 

[mike_malone]

 Rory,

     WFW was also billed as a "manly" course. I guess I like "girly" courses !

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mayday,

There's no doubt that Aronomink is a hard course.

Is your question:  "Is it a distinctive course ?"

[mike_malone]

 Pat,

   I think that word may be the right one. The course is low on "distinctive"

[John Gosselin]

Mike, if you want to compare the courses you mentioned you should play them from similar overall yardages. Then  you may get the shorter par 4s you are looking for or more variety form your particular game point of view.

Another golf club atlas contributor played Aronimink last year after a round at another course locally and complained he had to many long irons into greens as compared to the other course and that for him made it less interesting. He was playing the White tees at Aronimink which play around 6600 yds daily as opposed to the white tees he played on the previous day at the other course which play about 6100 daily.

My suggestion is next time you play Aronimink is to try the Gold tees which around that 6100 yds for a better comparison.

[mike_malone]

 John,

   That's a great suggestion. I would imagine that the fairway bunkering would play quite differently for the average driver from those tees. I'm biased towards the up and down the hills and valleys courses.

[mike_malone]

 Could I get a senior discount of 10% if I played those tees ?

[mike_malone]

 John,

   Are all of the chipping areas original?

[Dave_Miller]

   I played Aronimink today for the first time since the restorative work that was done. The course reveals itself so much better without all of those silly evergreens.

 The greens are the strength of the course. They are huge and varied.
   
 It is a very good golf course.

       I still think the layout is prosaic; that's an upgrade from my previous opinion of boring !

      If they could eliminate one of those repetitive par fours and replace it with a classic short Ross par three it would enhance the overall experience.

     The land is not as interesting as other courses in the area .

    I wonder if all of the chipping areas are original. I thought it was a little overkill.


    TIGER WILL KILL THE COURSE!



   The conditioning is superb ; the club is first class.

Mayday
Glad to see you are finally coming around.  The Chipping areas are not original.  It is simply a current maintenance plan.  Chipping areas could not have been maintained in the days when these courses were built.  That also includes Pinehurst No.2.
Best
Dave

[Rory Connaughton]

Rory,

     WFW was also billed as a "manly" course. I guess I like "girly" courses !

Mike, I like girly courses too! That is, however a matter of taste and though valid should not be confused with judgments as to architectural merit.  As you know my home course has its fair share of very stout holes along with a good number of sporty short 4's.  I think Aronimink is a different beast altogether and should be judged a success or failure based on what Ross sought to achieve.  I think he was very successful.

[Bill Brightly]

Mike,

As much as I like Plainfield, I don't think that terrain is any better than Aronomink's. Take out the really brilliant use of the small creek on PCC's 12th hole, and I think Aronomink's is better. AGC has an excellent, long, drop down par three and plenty of elevation changes throughout the property. Maybe there are so many uphill approaches to long par 4's that it gives you a "brutish" feel? It is very hard, and you really need length off the tee, but I would not call it boring.

If you look at ALL the terrain at PCC, you have to take off a few points for that section in the back nine, 13-14-15 which really don't fit. And PCC's 18th is hardly a classic finishing hole (the 9th would be SO much better) while AGC's 18th is much more dramatic.

[mike_malone]

 Bill,

   You may be more of an expert on Plainfield than I am, having played it only once. So, I'll use T/F as my better terrain example and Plainfield for the variety argument. I still remember fondly the awesome #1 green at Plainfield , the uphill short four on the front, the short par three on the back , and the par five on the back. These outstanding holes were nicely surrounded by other solid holes. I don't expect #18 to be the signature hole as so many other golfers do.


    Rory,

    I tried to compare AGC just to Ross courses in the area. On this basis I don't see its superiority. I won't even bother to compare it to Flynn courses !

[mike_malone]

 Let's talk "plaques". What's more appropriate one that announces the architect's marketing campaign like AGC's or the one by #11 at Merion recalling Jones's victory?

[Sean McCue]

John,

You tell em!!  What is not to like about Aronimink.  I grew up playing the course and it was a test of golf even before the restoration work took place.  I have played it a couple of times after and it  was awesome compared to what i played countless rounds on.  To this day my 4 iron is the best club in the bag, due to the frequency of use in approach shots in the greens.

[mike_malone]

 Sean,

    Some would prefer hitting all of the clubs in their bag .

[Sean McCue]

How did i know you would come back with that line

[Mike Sweeney]

Sean,

    Some would prefer hitting all of the clubs in their bag .

Mayday,

With WFW, Bethpage Black and Aronimink, you seem to have similar comments. 6600-6700 is probably the typical "Member Tees" at each of these. Is it possible that you are on the wrong set of tees at these courses? I have basically come to grips that even at 6750 yards from the back, hilly, soft and Par 70 Yale is too far for me unless it is very firm which has not happened this season with all the rain. There are a couple of holes that play much better from the back (see #18), so I play from the back on those holes but still post my score as if I played all the member tees.

The more I play Aronimink, the more I agree with Bob Crosby that the front nine is maybe as good of a Ross 9 that I have played. Aren't 2 and 7 awfully good short to mid Par 4's? There is something to the argument that the back is more one dimensional, but it is not really set up for the regular guy club golfer, so move up!

[mike_malone]

  Mike,

   John Gosselin already made that recommendation; it is a good idea. I think my similar comments on WFW and AGC come from the relative lack of interest for drives. BPB was more about the greens.

    I wonder if Bob Crosby has played the front nine at Torresdale Frankford . I would say that its front is on par with AGC. In my view T/F is better.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I seem to remember having this "conversation" with another Flynn-O-phile sometime in the past.  I get it.  I get this in relation to courses like Merion, Gulph Mills, T-F, Rolling Green, etc.  While I don't know T-F and Gulph Mills, I have played the others (in addition to a number of other local Flynns and Tillinghast) and realize that Aronimink is VERY unique in the GAP.  As it's been said here, it's big... it's burly... it's long... it's fairly straight (that's what the girl at the picnic said)... yada, yada, yada.  It's sui generis among Golden Age designs in Philadelphia.  That doesn't mean it's boring!!!

I was back recently and a chance to play AGC and Merion on back-to-back days.  First let me say that the East course is my all-time favorite.  But, AGC is absolutely the 3rd course in the GAP (after PVGC and MGC), and if it were anywhere else - inlcuding the Met - it would be among the top there also.

As for invdividual holes, there are certainly a number of short ones as mentioned... 2, 6, 7, 13.  In fact, I was talking to some fellow members when I was back and they claim that they've told that #3 will play the easiest during Tiger's tourney.  I don't doubt that as they all have the length to blow it past the FW bunker on the left.  But, for us mortals choices have to be made... the landing area of the tee shot is blinded by a FW bunker short right, that's not even in play for my father.  So the play is to hit it over that bunker with a little draw, or maybe lay-up short of the left bunker with a 3W.  Then the approach is blind to one of a number of great greens!

There are a couple places that I wish we’d play the tees up just a bit from time-to-time (but then again I only get back to play it 2x a year so maybe I’m missing something):  #2 (which I seem to recall playing up one teebox in years past which forces a decision about how much of the dogleg left, and the guarding bunkers, to bite off) and #6 (260 to fly the bunkers is a bit much for most folks). 

The other “complaint” was a relative sameness to the par 3’s, which I don’t get except for the two on the back can sometimes pay the same yardage:

#5 – 144 yds – 7-9 iron depending upon where the pin is and the wind, which seems to always be a factor
#8 – 208 yds (downhill) – 3-4 iron; 5W.
#14 – 183 yds – 4-6 iron depending upon where the pin is on this very big green
#17 – 185 yds – 5 iron center of green… take the pond left out of play.

Other than the shore, and Scrapple, whiling away summer afternoons at AGC is one of the few things I'd trade in SF for a move back to Philly.