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RJ_Daley

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Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2009, 09:10:42 AM »
I didn't see this until today.  I'll throw out "bunch" type growth habit for some fescues, and colonial bent, and ryes. 

And, the thing Carl Spackler needed more of besides dynamite, rodenticide!

I think the N-P-K numbers are the % per pound per 1000sf.

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JSPayne

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Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2009, 10:36:35 AM »
Alan......thanks for the assistance. As they say, two heads are always better than one! And there is definetely more explaination to most of these answers than what I've given.

That info about Poa is actually new to me, so thanks for sharing! Just confirms why they always told us in school, if you don't want to confuse others about what plant you're talking about, stick with the scientific name, because it's universal, whereas it seems many plants have quite a variety of common names.

RJ......spot on with the rodenticide! The NPK numbers are a percent, but not per 1000 sq. ft.
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

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Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2009, 02:11:30 PM »
Alan......thanks for the assistance. As they say, two heads are always better than one! And there is definetely more explaination to most of these answers than what I've given.

That info about Poa is actually new to me, so thanks for sharing! Just confirms why they always told us in school, if you don't want to confuse others about what plant you're talking about, stick with the scientific name, because it's universal, whereas it seems many plants have quite a variety of common names.

RJ......spot on with the rodenticide! The NPK numbers are a percent, but not per 1000 sq. ft.

Phew ;D

I'm with you on using the scientific names, it took me a few years to adjust to the US 'slang' n stuff. Now all I have to work out is if I'm a greenkeeper since I'm from Ireland or a greenskeeper since I work in the US.

Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2009, 03:34:43 PM »
A funny thing to me about ground squirrels and gophers and prairie burrowing animals was that I thought all you could do was to drop poison bait (rodenticide).  But, I never heard of the gopher machine until Dan Proctor was explaining it that they run it on the nice sandhill terrain before they start turning over the top grasses and such.  I never heard of a 'gopher machine'.  Then they said that it is good to chew gum when you are playing like at Wild Horse, and when you see their burrow holes, drop a piece of your gum down it and it will choke'em.  I never know when they are putting this greenhorn on...  ;) ;D ::)

Also, how'd I do with the "bunch growth habit"?  8)

We should keep this thread going by asking some relatively common turf management questions.  Remeber when either GCM mag or was it Golfdom was running those photos of turf problems and asking what cause the damage?  Or, maybe post some bug pictures and have an "identify the critter" contest.  

I'll go first, with a couple of questions.

What common herbicide is great for broadleaf control in Kentucky or dwarf bluegrass FWs, but pretty toxic, especially in high temps, on bentgrass greens?

What is a good way with common household material to determine if you have grub problems in thatch and soil below turf leafs?

Name a a homemade insecticide that you can put in your mouth, but if mixed with some water and left to cure a bit can be sprayed fairly effectively on small areas?  But, I'm not encouraging anyone to put it in your mouth...  :P ::) ;D

What three cultivars of bent grass use a portion of a University in their common names, which university? Same question about location of research and development, and name of bermuda grass.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 03:38:35 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JSPayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2009, 10:01:17 PM »
RJ.....I like the bunch grass addition. Although there are some exceptions, I always try to explain to people that cool season grasses grow in little clumps as individual plants into a big mass, and warm seasons sprawl and spread all on their own without much help. So if you want a bermudagrass lawn, just take a little piece, any piece, stick it in your soil, add a little water and heat and stand back and watch it go!

Are you presenting those questions to us supers for answers RJ? Or am I correct to assume that you know the answer but want the rest of the treehouse to give it a go at the answers?

I could talk turf all day long......but I do worry that once you get TOO technical you start to lose interest and make it harder for many to understand without a background in horticultural education.
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2009, 10:24:09 PM »
No JS, I'm throwing the questions out to the treehouse non-sups to advance the quiz.  Of course I'm 'hoping' I know the answers to these relatively easy ones.  But, I can take the embarrassment if I'm wrong on what I think the answers are.  I just thought some of these might be fun for the treehouse participants to give it a go.  Maybe we can think of a few that are turf and GCA or construction related and keep the questions relavant to this site.  But, I certainly don't think a few golf-turf factoids can hurt any discussion here. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JSPayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2009, 11:54:53 PM »
Funny part is RJ......as much of a "turf nerd" I think I am.....those questions may be borderilne tough. I'm pretty sure I only know the answer to two of them, which I'll give everyone else the chance to answer first.

The herbicide question I may have heard of the chemical, but don't think I'm familiar with it because I've never worked a course with bluegrass fwys or had to spray a broadleaf herbicide on a green. So I don't think I know what you're referring to.

And the homemade insecticide I have no clue, but it sounds like it might be a cool answer, so I'm anxious to hear. Quirky, unique creative facts and solutions to problems like that are the reason I absolutely LOVE interacting and chatting with supers from all over, because I've yet to meet a super I didn't learn something new and useful from. Often times something that seems like a simple, easy solution can be hard to others simply because they've never been in a situation where they needed that knowledge! But once we figure it out once, we're likely to never forget it again......because it could save our jobs!
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

Grant Saunders

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2009, 02:18:12 AM »
RJ

Interesting questions

Im pretty sure I know the answers to the questions about insecticide you can put in your mouth and household product to determine grubs. I have sent you a pm to confirm these.

Im not sure I would consider either one a "common" practice in greenkeeping circles. I have seen a variation of them used once and only as a matter of interest experiment. I think the answers are very interesting though. I have used one of these practices at home however.

I have a couple more of these quirky questions to add if people enjoy these.

Ryan DeMay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2009, 05:46:42 AM »

I'll go first, with a couple of questions.

What common herbicide is great for broadleaf control in Kentucky or dwarf bluegrass FWs, but pretty toxic, especially in high temps, on bentgrass greens?

Three-Way(2,4-D, dicamaba, mecoprop), Momentum, et.al.

What is a good way with common household material to determine if you have grub problems in thatch and soil below turf leafs?

2.5 tablespoons of Dawn Ultra dish soap in 1 gallon of water, flush a small area and see what comes up.

Name a a homemade insecticide that you can put in your mouth, but if mixed with some water and left to cure a bit can be sprayed fairly effectively on small areas?  But, I'm not encouraging anyone to put it in your mouth...  :P ::) ;D

I'm not sure on this one.  I'll take a stab at it and say vinegar but, that would not be very good for the turf.

What three cultivars of bent grass use a portion of a University in their common names, which university? Same question about location of research and development, and name of bermuda grass.

PennLinks, PennTrio, Penncross all hail from The Pennsylvania State University.  With respect to the bermuda grass question, Tifway 419, Tifdwarf, TifSport, et. al. were all developed at a USDA research site in Tifton, GA.

I will see if I can come up with a few of these to post.  Oh and JS, I prefer the term "turf geek".  ;)

Kyle Harris

Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2009, 09:20:49 AM »
A funny thing to me about ground squirrels and gophers and prairie burrowing animals was that I thought all you could do was to drop poison bait (rodenticide).  But, I never heard of the gopher machine until Dan Proctor was explaining it that they run it on the nice sandhill terrain before they start turning over the top grasses and such.  I never heard of a 'gopher machine'.  Then they said that it is good to chew gum when you are playing like at Wild Horse, and when you see their burrow holes, drop a piece of your gum down it and it will choke'em.  I never know when they are putting this greenhorn on...  ;) ;D ::)

Also, how'd I do with the "bunch growth habit"?  8)

We should keep this thread going by asking some relatively common turf management questions.  Remeber when either GCM mag or was it Golfdom was running those photos of turf problems and asking what cause the damage?  Or, maybe post some bug pictures and have an "identify the critter" contest.  

I'll go first, with a couple of questions.

What common herbicide is great for broadleaf control in Kentucky or dwarf bluegrass FWs, but pretty toxic, especially in high temps, on bentgrass greens?

What is a good way with common household material to determine if you have grub problems in thatch and soil below turf leafs?

Name a a homemade insecticide that you can put in your mouth, but if mixed with some water and left to cure a bit can be sprayed fairly effectively on small areas?  But, I'm not encouraging anyone to put it in your mouth...  :P ::) ;D

What three cultivars of bent grass use a portion of a University in their common names, which university? Same question about location of research and development, and name of bermuda grass.

1. I'll take a guess with either Dicambia (Banvel) or Speedzone. Definitely not tricoplyr.

2. Take lemon dish soap and pour it over the area. When the grubs come up, kill 'em. I did this with Mole Crickets at Mountain Lake.

3. No idea.

4. Penncross, Penneagle, Penntrio. and PENN STATE UNIVERSITY! Then, TifEagle, TifSport and Tifwhatever... Tifton, GA.

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2009, 10:23:06 AM »
An interesting thread this, so thanks to JS Payne for starting it. I managed to get some right (stimpmeter and weeds) while I had no clue on others (fertilzer and pesticides). Also, even though (as far as I'm aware) we dont have the cool season / warm season different grasses over here in the UK, its interesting to know the differences as they are often talked about on here or when watching coverage of golf on TV from the US Tour.

This thread has got me thinking of a few things though, little queries that are often sitting in the back of my mind...

1. All the mention of pesticides? Are there any organic practices in greenkeeping instead?
2. What grasses do we have on golf courses here in the UK. I know meadow and bent are often mentioned but can anyone with a knowledge of the UK expand on this? Also what are the different grasses on a links in comparison to more inland courses?

Seems like I've got the right people on this thread to answer these questions, but if anyone thinks I'm hijacking then I'll happily start a fresh one?

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2009, 03:28:09 PM »
Ryan and Kyle are all over this!  ;D

The ones I'm sure they are both completely accurate on are Penn State, and the bents named after their great University, and turf science dept.  (How did you ever gues that Kyle?  ;D), and Tifdon GA's univesity research station on the bermuda grasses.

The dish soap is a great spray to raise the grubs or force them above the ground.  I learned that in a "Scouting the GC for insect pests" seminar I took with the GCSAA, I believe Rossi conducted years ago.  The idea was in IPM, to not just willy nilly spray until the grubs reached a critical population, and in isolated areas, rather than a full field insecticide application.  You spray a given area with the Dawn, and then count how many grubs come up, and if it is not too many, you don't need to spray, but if you have many, then spray as isolated an area as is effected.  Also, we learned that you can mechanically kill'em with the "spikes of death".  All you have to do is knick em.  Rossi made a gag spiked flat iron pad on a handle to punch along the ground, thus not needing a chem app to spray.  You don't see the modern sup doing much of that!  ::) ;) ;D

I'm not fully confident on the 2-4 D as an absolute as a bentgrass killer in hot weather, but a great broadleaf app on all manner of blues, bermuda, and ryes.  That was what I was told.  It can come in effect when the sprayer of the fairway for broadleaf gets too close to a bent green.  Any super can expand or correct this neophytes information. 

I'll let the insecticide consumable in the mouth run awhile.  Most any organic turf web site talks about it.  It is not practical for actual commercial use, and the base toxic chemical is banned for commercial use as it is very dangerous and deadly in concentrated form that could be tank mixed.  I've even heard of a fellow that died sitting on a small puddle of it in concentration as his skin absorbvd it.  Yet, folks do put it in their mouth!   ::) :-\

I hope some supers come up with some more fun and interesting turf or golf construction related to turf questions. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2009, 06:38:54 PM »

I'm not fully confident on the 2-4 D as an absolute as a bentgrass killer in hot weather, but a great broadleaf app on all manner of blues, bermuda, and ryes.  That was what I was told.  It can come in effect when the sprayer of the fairway for broadleaf gets too close to a bent green.  Any super can expand or correct this neophytes information. 
 

2-4D is not necessarily an absolute bentgrass killer. It largely depends on the rate. High rates will kill bentgrass (and bluegrass for that matter) weather notwithstanding. It certainly will hurt (thin, brown out) bentgrass at higher temperatures but not necessarily kill it at normal rates. Of course the added stress during high stress times is not something that you want (remember also that bentgrass is usually mowed at less than an inch also adding stress) so it is generally not recommended. Most bentgrass formulations are the same as bluegrass products but the active ingredient is often lower and the recommended rates a little lower also.
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2009, 06:54:01 PM »

1. All the mention of pesticides? Are there any organic practices in greenkeeping instead?
2. What grasses do we have on golf courses here in the UK. I know meadow and bent are often mentioned but can anyone with a knowledge of the UK expand on this? Also what are the different grasses on a links in comparison to more inland courses?

Seems like I've got the right people on this thread to answer these questions, but if anyone thinks I'm hijacking then I'll happily start a fresh one?

Cheers,

James

James
There are plenty of organic practices, some more viable than others, here is a thread a while back discussing organic practices over chemical practices that might be a good place to start.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38289.0/

As for the grasses, the cool season grasses are the same both sides of the Atlantic. The classic Links courses favor fescues (although I believe poa annua is found on them also). The main differences are most cool season greens, tees and fairways in the US are seeded to creeping bentgrass with the roughs predominately poa pratensis (smooth stalk meadowgrass in the UK, bluegrass in the US). In the UK greens tees and fairways are generally seeded with fescues and colonial bentgrass, although they are also seeded to creeping bentgrass, especially on the American style courses. In both areas poa annua is usually found everywhere especially on older courses as it is hard to control and takes over.
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Emil Weber

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2009, 07:35:44 AM »
Could we have a soluition on this?

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2009, 09:03:33 AM »
As an aside...

The bent grass greens at both Wild Horse and Bayside have turned out to be very aggressive. Taking over the green's collars and ruing the optimal levels of F&F.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

JSPayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2009, 12:14:05 PM »
Emil.....what exactly do you want a solution on? I believe I've confirmed or answered all the orginal question I posted.
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2009, 12:32:57 PM »
James
There are plenty of organic practices, some more viable than others, here is a thread a while back discussing organic practices over chemical practices that might be a good place to start.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,38289.0/

As for the grasses, the cool season grasses are the same both sides of the Atlantic. The classic Links courses favor fescues (although I believe poa annua is found on them also). The main differences are most cool season greens, tees and fairways in the US are seeded to creeping bentgrass with the roughs predominately poa pratensis (smooth stalk meadowgrass in the UK, bluegrass in the US). In the UK greens tees and fairways are generally seeded with fescues and colonial bentgrass, although they are also seeded to creeping bentgrass, especially on the American style courses. In both areas poa annua is usually found everywhere especially on older courses as it is hard to control and takes over.

Thanks Alan,

I'll read through the other thread on organic practices when I have a moment. I also now have even more grass names to try and remember!  ;D

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Test Your Greenskeeping IQ
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2009, 12:36:11 PM »
Gents, the final solution on what you 'can' put in your mouth, but is a deadly substance if in concentration, but can be mixed as a home remedy lawn or small area insecticide is ..... (a chaw of terbaccky)  :P

http://www.all-natural-insecticides.com/homemade-insecticide.html

http://www.essortment.com/all/homemadeinsecti_rvxg.htm
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.