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Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Another one for the Rules Mavens
« on: July 30, 2009, 05:55:32 PM »
In league Monday night, one of our opponents pulled his driver out of its cover and I saw something on the club face.  As it turned out the club was festooned with one of those decals you can use to determine where on the club face you are making contact. 

Immediately, I thought that's probably illegal in the same fashion that vaseline or any other foreign substance.  I said nothing as I wasn't sure about the rule and more importantly I knew it wasn't going to matter that much. 

About halfway though the round one edge of the decal came unstuck and was flapping around creating a distraction for the player.  He removed the decal, and I was sure at that point that he had violated a rule in changing the playing characteristics of the club.  I didn't call that one either.

As it turned out he beat me like a rented mule and the penalty strokes sure would have come in handy.

Nevertheless, the question am I right.  Was it two for the decal and two for removing for a total of four, or was it just two for removing the decal.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 05:59:35 PM »
He is penalized for the decal on the very first hole.

A self appointed rules maven.

Perhaps you want experts, not mavens.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 06:04:02 PM »
I don't have an answer, but in equity, I'd think that the issue is if the sticker was on there to improve the performance of the club, and its removal would then be altering the club (is the face different than the back of the club where people often add lead tape?).  If removing the sticker is a violation of the rules, is the removal of loose tape holding the label of the shaft in place in the course of a round also a violation?  I did that recently to a small piece on my putter.  Do I need to refund my winnings?

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 06:05:28 PM »
Match or stroke play?

If it's a match, when you chose not to call it in the first place, you waived any ruling.

If it's stroke play, what ever happened to protecting the field.

I have no idea about the actual ruling, if there is one. But ethically, you deserve nothing since you made the decision to do nothing about it in the first place.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 06:17:19 PM »
Adam

Ethically, I wasn't interested in anything.  I was just curious about what the ruling would be.  As it is a hybrid of match and medal play, one point per hole and one for the low total, I don't know what would apply.  I presume match would rule. 

I've seen some bizarre things in league and I often wonder about the rulings if it were a "real" medal tournament.  I brought one to the attention of the discussion group years ago.  It involved a player taking practice swings on a tee and striking and breaking a low hanging branch.  After cursing, he moved his teeing spot and played free of the interference.  I had presumed that because he moved from the place where he had knocked the branch down that he was free of penalty.  The rules experts explained that he was assessed a two stroke penalty for altering the area of swing.  It didn't matter that the ball was not yet in play. 

Lou, I don't know about removing the label from the shaft but I do know that a player was once penalized two strokes for putting a piece of white tape on top of his putter to cut down on the glare from the shiny metal surface.  I think you can keep your winnings, especially if you victim doesn't habituate the discussion group.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 06:20:42 PM »
The sticker is an external attachment that renders the club non conforming. It's a two stroke penalty for carrying it, applied at each hole it is carried, 4 strokes max.

Once the club is used, the player is disqualified
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 06:31:40 PM »
John,

Ouch, that's harsh.  I had no idea it was quite that serious. 

Oh well, I'd do the same thing again because it wasn't what beat me, I beat myself.

Thanks for the answer.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

David Schofield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 07:46:31 PM »
The sticker is an external attachment that renders the club non conforming.

How does the sticker compare to lead tape?

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 08:18:37 PM »
I think the sticker would reduce the ability of the club face to impart spin and the ball is apt to go straighter.  Not as effective as vaseline but the same principle.  Thus, both the tape and the sticker change the playing characteristics of the club.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 09:02:59 PM »
The sticker is an external attachment that renders the club non conforming.

How does the sticker compare to lead tape?

The USGA has decided that lead tape applied to a clubhead is permitted; although, it would not be permitted to be attaced to the face of the club
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 09:12:24 PM »
John,

Oops on the lead tape.  I meant to include it only if it was removed during the round.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Jason McNamara

Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 10:38:41 PM »
Actually, it's a trifecta, isn't it?

There's changing the characteristics mid-round, there's diminishing the amount of spin imparted on the ball, *and* there's the benefit of training aid - being able to see where one is making contact.  Even if it's not all three, you have grounds for one DQ.

If you play these guys again, Steve, I hope you are able to give the guy a friendly heads-up before the round.  His weekend game buddies may not care, but he sounds pretty over the line.

JohnV

Re: Another one for the Rules Mavens
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2009, 12:37:19 AM »
The contact tape on the face of the club was a violation of 4-2b.    If he didn't use it, in match play there would be an adjustment to the state of the match by deducting one hole for each hole that the breach occurred, maximum 2 holes.  In stroke play, 2 stroke per hole, maximum 4 strokes.  If he used it, he would be disqualified in either form of play.

But as others pointed out, if it was match play and you did not make a claim when you noticed it, you lost the right to make the claim.

When he removed the tape when it became lose, he  was changing the playing characteristics which is a violation of Rule 4-2a with the same penalties applicable.  Again, you could have made a claim, but you didn't.

As for lead tape, it can be applied before the round, but not on the face.  If it becomes loose during the round, it can be repaired.  If it falls off, it can be reattached or a new piece of identical size can be applied in the same place.  Decisions 4-1/4 and 4-2/0.5

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