Pace Of Play

[Harvey Dickens]

Do you ever feel like you are unable to enjoy a course due to being rushed to keep up a pace of play? My normal foursome can play in three hours at our home course and I don't like waiting but I hate to feel like I am on a deadline. I had the chance to play the Stadium course at Sawgrass recently and I felt like we were being subtly rushed by our forecaddie. It was hard to really take in the course. I am sure there is a fine line between being able to enjoy your surroundings and being slow. How do you play at a reasonable pace and still evaluate/enjoy a course? I was really looking to examine Sawgrass and just didn't feel like I had the chance.

[Dan Herrmann]

Harvey,  Nope, never felt that way.  Fast play is fun.  I think the best way to study a course is to view it carefully, play it according to the norms of the club/course, and revisit those areas that demand further study. 

[Mark Pritchett]

I can only say I would rather feel rushed the have to wait.

[DMoriarty]

I don't get it.  I your foursome actually plays in three hours at your home course it is hard for me to imagine that you'd feel rushed anywhere, unless your home course is substantially shorter than 6000 yards.   

How fast were they expecting you to play at Sawgrass?   

[John Moore II]

Yeah, I am trying to figure this out as well. How can you feel rushed if you are used to playing in 3 hours?

Was the course empty or was it a full day?

If the course was full, that forecaddie had a job to keep play moving, and it frankly doesn't matter if you like it or not. One slow group screws up the whole day terribly, to the point that later golfers can't get done in 5 1/2 hours.

And as far as evaluating a course goes, did you ride or walk? If you're riding, its hard to really take something in even playing in 5 hours. I played today with Scott Burroughs on a course that is a bear to walk. We walked in 3:45 and were held up on the front. I felt like I took in the course rather well. It was quite easy to see the features of the course at that semi-fast pace.

[Harvey Dickens]

Course plays at 6400 yards. Checked our time a week ago Saturday. Three hours, average is around 3 1/2.  They never said anything about time at Sawgrass, which is why I said "subtle" just felt like it was hurried. We didn't wait much and no one waited on us.

[PThomas]

i played there in Dec Harvey and didnt get that impression, fwiw

on a course like that if a gap opens up between your group and the one in front than i think a marshall SHOULD be getting your group to speed up

[DMoriarty]

Maybe the forecaddy had a date.

How long did it take you to play at Sawgrass?

[Harvey Dickens]

Paul, glad you didn't get that impression. There were no gaps. I assumed everyone was being pushed. I detest slow play, I also don't want to feel like I am at the drive through at McDonalds. On a course like that, I would like to play at a pace that is not as quick as my home course that I know like the back of my hand.
I don't want to watch the roses grow, but I would like to be able to smell them once in awhile.

Dmoriarty
I am not really sure how long it took. It was an average time, I would assume. The forecaddie did a wonderful job and it was actually a blessing if he hurried us along as the siren blew while we were hitting our approach shots on #9 (our 18th hole) We finished!!!

It seems like we are in such a rush these days that we can not even enjoy our leisure activities. Some of the most enjoyable moments I have had on a course is late in the evening, maybe by myself, just relaxing enjoying the colors of the course, the sky, listening to nothing but birds, really enjoy the course and surroundings.

[DMoriarty]

I love to play by myself on an empty course.  There are few things better.   But when I do I find I fall into a natural rhythm that if anything is faster than I play in a group.    No standing around waiting for others to hit.  No conversations, just me and the course.

Slow play is killing the game.  People don't know how to play fast.  It is a better game when one stays engaged and moving along at a decent pace.   IMO.

[Harvey Dickens]

DM,

How fast do you normally play in a group?

[DMoriarty]

It depends on the foursome.   I'd say my last regular foursome was probably about 3:45 on average.  It had been closer to 3:30 for a few years but for some reason we slowed down. It may have been a few changes to the course.  Now it varies depending on who is playing.  We all fall into a habit of playing slow sometimes but it is a bad habit and tough to break, so I try pretty hard to maintain a decent pace.   That is walking a 7000 yard course usually from the 6600-6700 yard tees, and there are a number of pretty long walks across a large wash.    I played early in the morning the other day solo and played in just under 2:15, and did not feel like I was at all hurrying.  It was a joy.

[Cliff Hamm]

Played the other day.  Got to the first tee and asked what tee the other two were playing from.  They stated the blues and they proceeded to hit 100 foot drives. I play to a 16 and play the whites.  Tough course.  Had a good day and shot 84. Played with my wife, who had a bad day and shot 112.  As to our two companions would estimate 120+ and 130+. Judging from their swing this was not a bad day. My wife and I play in about 3 1/2 hours and this day took us 4 hours.

I was not rude.  I do play ready golf though.  I also don't see the sense in looking for lost balls with scores that are high.  At one point these guys were annoyed with me when I put the pin in and they had an 8 inch putt that they insisted on putting out.

Needless, to say they complained to the pro shop staff that we rushed them, were always ahead of them, did not give them time to look for lost balls or hit a second shot..  BTW we were the first group of the day and had made a tee time.  They chose to join us, arrived early and were unhappy that they could not tee off before us.  One of the worst rounds of the year as far as enjoyment..... I remain a public golfer at heart but it is this kind of behavior that turns me off to the game.

[PThomas]

Played the other day.  Got to the first tee and asked what tee the other two were playing from.  They stated the blues and they proceeded to hit 100 foot drives. I play to a 16 and play the whites.  Tough course.  Had a good day and shot 84. Played with my wife, who had a bad day and shot 112.  As to our two companions would estimate 120+ and 130+. Judging from their swing this was not a bad day. My wife and I play in about 3 1/2 hours and this day took us 4 hours.

I was not rude.  I do play ready golf though.  I also don't see the sense in looking for lost balls with scores that are high.  At one point these guys were annoyed with me when I put the pin in and they had an 8 inch putt that they insisted on putting out.

Needless, to say they complained to the pro shop staff that we rushed them, were always ahead of them, did not give them time to look for lost balls or hit a second shot..  BTW we were the first group of the day and had made a tee time.  They chose to join us, arrived early and were unhappy that they could not tee off before us.  One of the worst rounds of the year as far as enjoyment..... I remain a public golfer at heart but it is this kind of behavior that turns me off to the game.

guys like that who play from the wrong tees DRIVE ME NUTS...why do they do it?  ego?  because they think the course has to be hard to be considered good? 

its like they would almost feel guilty about shooting a good score from the next set up.....ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doug Siebert]

Guys who are shooting 120+ and 130+ wouldn't have to worry about "feeling guilty about shooting a good score" even from the women's tees.

I doubt its ego, not for someone shooting scores like that.  Its probably some weird idea about the course being expensive so they want to make sure they get their money's worth by playing the whole course.

The problem is, even if those guys played from the white tees, maybe they shoot 110+ and 120+, its still gonna be painful to watch...

[Dan Herrmann]

David's tag line says it all - just let the faster matches play through, and you don't really have many issues.

[Scott Warren]

That was the one downside of my day at TOC. We got the standard "keep up or the marshals will speak to you" on the 1st tee and one of the guys inn the group got a bit over excited with our place in the field and was constantly making comments if the group in front got ahead at all. Amusingly, he did break from his jog when he put his tee shot on 8 into the bush and couldn't find it . While I ignored him and enjoyed the pace (being aware of where we were, of course), I do know at least one of the other guys was put off by it. For the record, we were never spoken to by a marshall, other than to suggest the best line on a few of the tees.

[JSPayne]

While it's always nice to have a good round on a course you've been dying to see or play, and may only get to play just once, I would say the best way to make sure you enjoy the COURSE is to not take your round so seriously. And who knows, a positive subliminal perk to this idea may be that you actually play BETTER by not focusing so much on scoring and playing well. You'd be amazed by how much time is lost by the majority of golfers just trying to save a stroke here and there that rarely ends up actually improving their score. Here's a few rules I've mostly tried to follow in making this conversion from score-focus to course/environment focus:

1) Just take the penalty. The majority of time wasted on any course is looking for lost balls or balls in the hazard. If it's staked red, look for maybe a minute (hopefully others in your group help you) and if you can't find it, just drop. Even if you had found your ball, it's unlikely that the shot you TRY to make out of the hazard yeilds a substaintially better result than it you had took the drop penalty. If it's OB or water, re-tee/drop immediately....hell, take a mulligan if you want. Unless you're playing for cash or drinks, no one cares if you just do it quickly and only once per 9.

2) Go back to "putting by feel." Warm up on the putting green to get the speed. Practice putting more often to train your eye to read breaks better. Learn to "feel" your stroke better so you know how to manage the speed and the break. All of this will help you save time on the course from plumb-bobing, setting up your "cheater line," walking 3 circles around your putt, taking 5 practice strokes, then remarking your ball 1 foot away from the hole when you miss just to do it all over again.

3) Get rid of all the practice swings already. One is more than enough. If you're a high-handicapper, practice swings are even worse, they only make you more tired!

4) Write down your scores on the next tee. Don't meander off the green looking back and pointing with your finger..."Ok, that was one shanked off the tee, two out of the native area, three short of the green, four chili-dipped, five on, and 2 putts....."

5) The most important and best way to improve your score AND have more time to enjoy the course......drop a few bucks with your local teaching pro! Hit more fairways and greens!! 

[Adam Clayman]

I wouldn't be surprised if the uneasiness felt was more due to the architecture of Mr. Dye than actually physically being hurried. I suppose it would mostly depend on how well you, and everyone in your group, kept their balls in play. On that course, the ability to find repeated trouble, hole after hole, especially on a bad day, would significantly increase the time it takes to play and accentuate any feeling of a need to keep pace. (Hurried)

If the forecaddie was that good, and, could sense it was going to be a long day, he would have to be pretty intimidating to have an affect on you.
Was he?

Can you give specific examples of how the caddy made you feel rushed?

[Jason McNamara]

I am not really sure how long it took. It was an average time, I would assume. The forecaddie did a wonderful job and it was actually a blessing if he hurried us along as the siren blew while we were hitting our approach shots on #9 (our 18th hole) We finished!!!

Harvey, do you live in the Southeast?  You're playing in Jacksonville, and there's hit & miss showers every afternoon, pretty much.  I could see a motivated forecaddy

(a) wanting you to be happy you finished
(b) not wanting you to pay him a 75% tip based on playing 14 holes, and - depending on the time of day -
(c) wanting to get out again.

Not saying you would do (b), but if he's been in this business long enough, it's probably happened to him.

If you live anywhere between Houston and Wilmington, you know this already - never mind.