[Jonathan Cummings]

I'm off to play in a M/G that I've played in over the years.  This club is know for a rather robust Calcutta, one in which Bing Crosby and Sam Snead use to participate in.  So robust that to appease the local authorities they have come to call the winnings "units".  I see less and less calcuttas at M/Gs.  Are they generally dying off?

JC

[JC Jones]

My public golf upbringing leaves me with no clue as to what a Calcutta is.  My love of betting on the golf course leaves me with a desire to know.

[JMEvensky]

I think Calcuttas have gone the way of persimmon woods and metal spikes.The people who frequently make up the majority of Member Guest players have no knowledge of Calcuttas nor have any desire to learn.Calcuttas require gambling on golf skill and that's not why many newcomers joined.

Calcuttas are another part of golf lore that doesn't get handed down to people who come to the game for business/social reasons.

[George Pazin]

For JC:

Calcutta on Wikipedia

Love the cynicism from Shiv.

[Adam Clayman]

 As Shiv points out, they can and often do create an atmosphere of distrust by giving the guy on "the inside" a chance to basically cheat others. Be it the handicap chair that assigns them, or the player who bags, or, the lowest of the low, the one who fudges the ball or the card.

I've never really been exposed to too many of them, until the last 4 years, and, from what I can surmise interest in these Calcutas has dropped significantly. Evidenced by the stories of how much money use to be in them.

It really is a good thing and is evidence how important equity is in golf. Eventually people will figure out when they are being cheated and rule 35 the bunch.


Last year I saw the most blatant ever. It involved a guy who just got out of prison for fraudulent insurance practices. He comes back to town and bids on a twosome nobody knew. They had shot middle of the pack the first day. Well, in this format they move to the back tees second day, and what do you know?  These guys go way low from further back. Nobody makes a stink and everyone knows they've been had.

Maybe golf has dried up is because of this type of club culture?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I think many may be hurting due to the economy, but in general they are still alive and well (even if a little more quiet than in the past).

[Bob_Huntley]

Shivas sums it up to a tee.

Make everyone play from scratch and there would never be another one in a Member/Guest.

Played in a few and cannot remember one where the winners were not thought of as thieves.

Bob

[Wayne_Kozun]

They are still alive and well in these parts (Toronto) for member-guests and member-member tournaments.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Played in a few and cannot remember one where the winners were not thought of as thieves.

But in the formats that I have seen you can buy, at auction, at least a half share of any team.  Therefore someone else has a vested interest at least as large as the winners, although the team always has the option to buy themselves at auction - if they seem determined to do so then you can always try to push up their price to increase the pool.

[Dan Herrmann]

The USGA policy:
General 

An "amateur golfer" is one who plays the game as a non-remunerative and non-profit-making sport. Financial incentive in amateur golf, which can be the result of some forms of gambling or wagering, could give rise to abuse of the Rules both in play and in manipulation of handicaps that would be detrimental to the integrity of the game.

There is a distinction between playing for prize money (Rule 3-1), gambling or wagering that is contrary to the purpose and spirit of the Rules (Rule 7-2), and forms of gambling or wagering that do not, of themselves, breach the Rules. An amateur golfer or a Committee in charge of a competition where amateur golfers are competing should consult with the USGA if in any doubt as to the application of the Rules. In the absence of such guidance, it is recommended that no cash prizes be awarded so as to ensure that the Rules are upheld.

Acceptable Forms of Gambling 

There is no objection to informal gambling or wagering among individual golfers or teams of golfers when it is incidental to the game. It is not practicable to define informal gambling or wagering precisely, but features that would be consistent with such gambling or wagering include:

•  the players in general know each other;
•  participation in the gambling or wagering is optional and is limited to the players;
•  the sole source of all money won by the players is advanced by the players; and
•  the amount of money involved is not generally considered to be excessive.

Therefore, informal gambling or wagering is acceptable provided the primary purpose is the playing of the game for enjoyment, not for financial gain.

Unacceptable Forms of Gambling 

Other forms of gambling or wagering where there is a requirement for players to participate (e.g. compulsory sweepstakes) or that have the potential to involve considerable sums of money (e.g. calcuttas and auction sweepstakes – where players or teams are sold by auction) are not approved.

Otherwise, it is difficult to define unacceptable forms of gambling or wagering precisely, but features that would be consistent with such gambling or wagering include:

•  participation in the gambling or wagering is open to non-players; and
•  the amount of money involved is generally considered to be excessive.

An amateur golfer's participation in gambling or wagering that is not approved may be considered contrary to the purpose and spirit of the Rules (Rule 7-2) and may endanger his Amateur Status.

Furthermore, organized events designed or promoted to create cash prizes are not permitted. Golfers participating in such events without first irrevocably waiving their right to prize money are deemed to be playing for prize money, in breach of Rule 3-1

[Dave Falkner]

last one I was involved with you could buy back 1/2 your team for a max of $500  so it limited the price to the $1000 range, the bidding night was great fun  and the pool sizecertainly heightened the pucker factor on sunday

[Dan Herrmann]

My big gripe with them is the ability for a player to bet on a different team.  If he has a chance to win the tournament or to win the calcutta, which do you think he'll do coming down the stretch?  To me, there's no honor in an event where you have the opportunity to win $$$ by losing at golf.

[Wayne_Kozun]

But that is why you generally have to buy half of your own team as part of the Calcutta - so that you don't have to deal with these agency issues.  If you have a 50% share in your team and a 50% share in another team then you would be indifferent financially and, hopefully, you will want to win to experience the "thrill of victory".

[Dave Falkner]

I only bid on teams in other flights  there was often good money to be made in the higher handicaps flights

[Bob_Huntley]

I do believe the Calcuttas of old died a slow death many years ago after the Deepdale incident.  I was wondering whether Tom Paul or Pat Mucci could tell us more about that.

Bob

[Kevin_Reilly]

I do believe the Calcuttas of old died a slow death many years ago after the Deepdale incident.  I was wondering whether Tom Paul or Pat Mucci could tell us more about that.

Bob

Here's a Time Magazine account:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,823961,00.html

[Wayne_Kozun]

Deleted as this linked to the same story as the previous post

[Kevin_Reilly]

Here is a 1956 story about the Crosby Pro Am that mentions the Deepdale Calcutta incident.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1131198/index.htm

[Rob_Waldron]

We have always avoided calcuttas in favor of pari-mutuals where everyone can bet on any team they like. Takes away the edge of the sandbaggers.

[Steve Salmen]

The problem is not the Calcutta.  The problem is with the accountability of the US handicap system.  We seem to turn a blind eye in the US and just shrug our shoulders if a suspect has an abnormally high handicap.  We remain friends with him and continue to allow him into member events, where he usually leaves the event with a higher net worth than before.  The Calcutta, with the huge stakes, showcases our weaknesses in handicap enforcement.

In the UK, you will be busted out if suspected of sandbagging.  It is on par with robbery, which in a way it is.  You will not be welcome to play with other golfers.  Clubs and club secretaries have a lot of leeway regarding handicapping of participants.  Also, the UK handicap does not move more than .1 strokes a week, or roughly 5 strokes per year so it's really hard to jack it up for the late season finale.

Off subject a little is why the USGA demands match play scores be posted.  This just baffles me since it's a head to head competition with no outside field and more of a "go for broke" mentality.  One man at my club with a 23 used to go out and win a match 6 & 5, be something like 6 over, and finish his round double, double, quad, triple, etc.  Real sporting.

Why do we put up with it? 

BTW, Jonathan, I enjoyed our rainy 9 at Renaissance.

[Jason Topp]

A good Golf Digest article describing the Deepdale incident:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HFI/is_3_52/ai_70888710/

Roberts, who turned 71 last May, once was among New England's better amateurs. But that was before his 1955 involvement in a $16,016.90 jackpot from a $45,000 auction at the elegant Deepdale Golf Club, then in Great Neck, N.Y. (When construction of the Long Island Expressway cut through the course the following year, the club moved to a site in nearby Manhasset.)

Then a 3-handicapper and a three-time club champion at The Orchards in South Hadley, Mass., Roberts was listed as a 17 on the Deepdale pairing sheet. His partner, Charles (Bud) Helmar, a 3 at the Franconia municipal course and the Springfield public-links champion, was listed as an 18 and played under the name of Richard Vitali, another member of The Orchards.

Roberts and Helmar, alias "Vitali," shot a net 58-57 for 115, winning by five strokes. Richard L. Armstrong, a New York bank executive, headed the syndicate that held the $16,016.90 ticket.

The scam is exposed Six weeks later, the scam was exposed by Lawrence Robinson, the golf writer for the now-defunct New York World Telegram & Sun, after Helmar, a carpet-factory worker in West Springfield, had confessed in a "conscience-stricken" letter to the Deepdale president, the late L. Dorland Doyle.

[Kalen Braley]

From the perspective of one who has never participated in one o these....I don't know why something like this would anything except a closed club event where everyone at least has some idea of everyone else's game.  Especially in light of knowing that its regularly abused, why would anyone agree to this under any other terms?

Its kinda like burning your hand on the stove, saying ouch that hurts, and continuing to put your hand back on the stove time and time again.

[Pete Lavallee]

I still participate in a Tourny that still has one. They have skirted having the clubhouse raided by the Sherrif by having the auction at the local Indian Casino.

[Jason Topp]

I played in one where I showed up the first day and was astonished to find out our team had been sold for a high four figure amount.  My host was a 13 and proceeded to shoot 32 the first nine holes.  I was a 12 and played really well our second match.  We then got crushed by another team in the third match and finished out of the money. 

I never knew who backed us but imagined someone watching from the trees.

The experience hurt rather than helped my business relationship with my host. 

[Jonathan Cummings]

Great stories!  Keep em coming.  I have a few I'll post when I have time.

Steve - ditto on our nine together.  I expect to see your book on Dornoch at the press soon!  Lorne's was overrated! 

JC

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