David,
Fair enough, you feel its over-rated and thats fine...I may have jumped a little quickly on what seemed like another BR discussion infecting a 3rd thread.
So perhaps I should recap where I stand with Black Rock and in some part Jim Engh's style. Here are the positives.
1) I really felt BR was top notch in several categories up to an including quality interesting holes, outstanding par 5s, several strategic decisions to be made on nearly every tee as well as many approach shots. This is first and foremost my reasons for liking BR.
2) Aesthics were very very good at Black Rock. Holes that come to mind are #3, the severly downhill par 5 with the neat tucked green, the par 4 4th hole, the neat drop shot #8 with the trees and pond framing the green. On the back 9, 10-14 for obvious reasons including terrific lake views, the best use of artificial water features I've ever seen on a course, and some really really nice shot requirements. Last but not least was the terrific 16th with its many options and drop dead gorgeous use of the trees and green side pond and how much it affected strategy on the hole.
3) The greens were like all the rest of JE's courses I've played....just an outright riot to put on. I could easily spend an hr on 16 green it was so fun.
4) A nice mix in the routing, specifically how the 3s, 4s, and 5s come at you. Front 9 plays 4, 3, 5, 4, 5, 4, 3, 5, 3. Back 9 is 4, 4, 5, 3, 3, 4, 5, 4, 4. Throw in varying lenghts of each of these and different bunkering locations and it really felt like every hole was unique.
Some negatives - just to show that I can be impartial.
1) Yes he uses templates and bowls...I won't disagree with this. By the 15th hole I was little sick of walking down and back up the bowls. But this doesn't change how the holes themselves played as the bowls are mostly all behind the greens....the only time you interface it negativly is when you're done with the hole and going to the next one.
2) I will agree there are several holes which felt similar to other holes I've played on Lakota, Redlands, and Sanctuary....but they were fun holes then and they remained fun holes to play at BR. I liken it to playing a world beater course like CPC over and over....just because you play 11-17 over and over again, doesn't mean that you tire of it.
3) Yes his courses are manufactured looking and I understand this is not your style...thats all fine and good. But as I said in a previous thread, I would rather player manufactured and fun anyday over minimalistic and boring. Its true, my "ideal" pairing is naturalistic and fun..but when that can't be had, I won't simply refuse to play a course because it doesn't blend in effortlessly with its environment.
In conclusion, I get you don't like this style, and that your peragotive, I can't criticize you for that. But where I think you are way off base is your utter intolerance of any style that isn't naturalistic in nature. Sure BR won't win any naturalism awards but its hands down one of the funnest golf courses I've ever played...and fun/exciting shots/strategy scores massively high points with me regardless of how the course looks aesthically.
This is really my only beef with your comments on BR. I get its not your style but don't see why you feel the need to go out of your way to slam it again and again and again. And even though you may disagree with GD and where they placed it, I would bet you agree with most of the other courses that GD has on its top 100 list, so they must be doing something right?
Kalen
P.S. Kennecot Copper Mine, the largest in the world is only 20 minutes from my house as well.
