[Adam Clayman]

Is there a Pro Bono Lawyer in the house?

The charter for the land being deeded from Samuel Morse to the city of Pacific Grove in-order for it to become a golf course specifically states "for the physical recreation of peninsula residents".

Well, the city has finally cut their own balls off with the latest pricing structure to the golf course. They have raised the annual to $500, but, it will now only get the local golfer access for 6 months of the year. The winter months.

At one time, 9 years ago and longer, this little 5978 yard gem was one of the most profitable courses on the peninsula. Their maintenance yard was the envy of it's much bigger and more prestigious neighbors. Now, after the $10+ million dollar clubhouse debacle, the city has cut off it's own residents in the hope, that revenue will increase.

Rage against the dying of the light.

 

[Brent Hutto]

Plenty of fine golf courses have drowned in the red ink from multi-million-dollar clubhouses. Pacific Grove won't be the last.

[Stan Dodd]

Adam,
Can you believe that the city has killed the 8 o'clockers? One of the best and longest running games in California.
Last year i paid $710  plus a $2 surcharge per round.  With the current pricing structure my cost would be $7,000 if I were to play the same amount of golf.  Funny, every other course in the area is dropping their rates and with the old Navy course reopening after a huge remodel I think the powers that be will be in for a reality check.

  At this time last year the city got a $250,000 infusion of cash from the annual pass holders that number might reach $25,000 this year.

[Adam Clayman]

Stan, Since I believe you are closest to this story I hope you can keep us up-to-date on all the gory details. If there's a conflict, I'll understand and continue to get my info second hand.

I remember speaking with one of the soon to be politicians who was in favor of the new clubhouse. Her reason? So her and her hubby could have a nice Sunday brunch.
Does the concessionaire do a Sunday brunch?

One more thing Stan, any legs to the charter angle?

[RJ_Daley]

This is one of the scenario's that really worries me from a personal point of view that it could happen here.  As Adam knows because he visited here, we have a county owned facility that is very nice quality and very affordable.  The course operations have never failed to return about that same kind of money to the county coffers (about 200-250K) after operations expenses.  It is the only facility in the county that returns money on a profit or revenue positive basis, including the zoo.  But every year or so, some idiot newly elected county board person or some such person gets a brain storm that they ought to sell the course or lease it to an American Golf or other management organization.  Then, the old timers have to go through the same song and dance routine to get the newest whiz-bang politician up to speed with all the arguments against the idea of farming it out to a management company or selling it outright for what I can only imagine is < 5-6 milllion by our market standards) thereby loosing a valuable recreational resource and public property.

That whole Pacific Grove thing, from what Adam has talked about for several years, wreaks of self dealing and self interested politicians and 'powers that be'.  I don't know what to say though if they put some of these questions of managing the place on a referendum and took the question to the people, and the people said 'sell it'.  It would then be hard to criticize if it was a good vote.

[Patrick Kiser]

Adam,

It saddens me to see PG taking one out of the Harding Park playbook.

Clearly the "build the wrong thing and they will not come" is de rigeur even now.

Do we know what the non-resident fees will be?

 

[rjsimper]

What is the current state of their tee sheet?

[David Stamm]

It's really disheartening watching this slow motion train wreck.


What's the word on the Navy course that Stan mentioned? Who did the work and does anyone know how it turned out? Will it make an impact on residents playing PG because of all this?

[Tom Huckaby]

What's the word on the Navy course that Stan mentioned? Who did the work and does anyone know how it turned out? Will it make an impact on residents playing PG because of all this?

We did the NCGA rating on that a month or so ago... in fact we were the first groups to play all 18 holes, and at least after that day, well you can call me Tom "Course Record Holder" Huckaby.   

I have no idea who did the work.

I can tell you that the course is VASTLY improved.  In terms of condition, greens are wonderful, fairways are perfect, it's firm and bouncy and still green.  This was a course that was generally in pretty ratty shape before, and very quirky, with some reallly problematic holes... much of the quirk is retained, but the problems are eliminated.  I found it to be very fun.. not very difficult, but not completely easy either... with many interesting shots to be played... on now these wonderful conditions.  The price is apparently going to be very reasonable too, particularly for Monterey area.  I believe they quoted $45 with cart on weekend.  The paying public will love it. 

I have a feeling many will turn to this course... but who knows?  Stan can say much better.

TH

[Eric Smith]

It's really disheartening watching this slow motion train wreck.


What's the word on the Navy course that Stan mentioned? Who did the work and does anyone know how it turned out?

I'm pretty sure the work done at this course was a friend of mine's firm (Kevin Tucker Design Group, based in Nashville).  Monterey Pines??  He had mentioned to me last year that he was working on a Navy course out in CA.

[Tom Huckaby]

Eric - that's the course - Monterey Pines.

[JohnV]

I hadn't heard about this mess until now.  I obviously have to get more involved in my community.

Dick's story of having a new member of the board every year or two is similar to things we would go through with certain clubs in Western PA when I was there.  Every year some new person got elected to a club board and said, "Why are we paying $XXXX to the West Penn Golf Association?  The club can save that money."

The club was just writing the check.  We charged $15 per member.  They passed it through with an add-on of $10 or $20 on the monthly bill.  So they were making money for doing nothing other than writing the check.  But, I had to spend a couple of hours educating the people at the club each time.

[Eric Smith]

Great Tom! I can't wait to let Kevin know that he's earned the Huckaby Seal-Of-Approval  , ie "FUN to play".  I know he takes that as the highest compliment he could hope for.

[Tom Huckaby]

Great Tom! I can't wait to let Kevin know that he's earned the Huckaby Seal-Of-Approval  , ie "FUN to play".  I know he takes that as the highest compliment he could hope for.

LOL!

Oh this course was cool enough before... it just took a real sense of humor and low need for good conditions to enjoy it.  Now, I really do think one and all will really dig it.  Ok sure I am a weird cat who lilkes pretty much everything, so my seal of approval is pretty meaningless of course... the main thing is that I think the general public will REALLY like the course as it is now.  And before, well... let's just say again, it was an acquired taste at least.

Your friend did great work for sure.  Man the super also has so far.  I was freakin' amazed how incredible conditions were.

[Eric Smith]

Ok sure I am a weird cat who lilkes pretty much everything, so my seal of approval is pretty meaningless of course...

Don't sell yourself short Tom.  I have his manual right here in front of me.

page 2...

THE FIRM'S GOALS

1. Earn Huckaby Seal-Of-Approval on each and every project we touch.

2. Everything else will fall into place after achieving No. 1.


Seriously though Huck, I did just send him a note along with a link to your kind comments above re: their work at Monterey Pines.

Thanks for sharing.

Eric

[Lou_Duran]

When the masses demand something you don't like yet force you to fund it, or, alternatively, when they don't see the benefits of programs a minority enjoy and does away with them, democracy can really suck.  What a government giveth, it can just as easily taketh away.

I understand the concept of resident pricing, but it has always bothered me.  I also abhor all the special fees and taxes on hotel rooms and rental cars to pay for sports arenas and other local programs.  It goes back to requiring other people to pay for our preferences.

You don't see Pajaro building an unsuitable clubhouse or attaching a surcharge to a select market.

Eric Smith,

One thing about Tom Huckaby, he is the opposite of Mikey, he likes everything.  Wait unitl TommyN reviews the course before passing on kudos.

[Eric Smith]

Eric Smith,

One thing about Tom Huckaby, he is the opposite of Mikey, he likes everything.  Wait unitl TommyN reviews the course before passing on kudos.

Lou,

I don't have a log in for Max's so I won't be able to link him to Tommy's review.  Either way, Huck's comments made me smile for the boys from Nashvegas.

Anyway, this is Adam's thread about the PG course, so please excuse me for going on about MP. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Yes this is supposed to be about PG Muni..  but it just finally got some stern local competition in terms of affordable golf, so methinks the comments about Monterey Pines are relevant here.

And yes I am generally Mikey and do like everything so oh yes, take my praise with an ocean of salt....

I just wouldn't wait for Tommy's review either, because he never gets up here.  But I really think even he would like MP as it is now, especially if he saw what it was before.  Which I don't think he ever did.  So there, I own him om this one.

 

[JohnV]

I know the clubhouse at PG is controversial, but it isn't that big.  I assume they paid too much for it, but I can't see that it should be knocked for being gaudy in any way.

Lou,  Pajaro is a privately owned facility so it is a definitely different situation from PG.  But, if they ever got the approval for the expansion they want, they might end up with some mighty clubhouse as part of it.

Should locals get a break at a muni?  Definitely if they paid for the course.  They are owners / members and deserve the break.

[Adam Clayman]

This thread is really about the golfers. So, a shift to Monterey Pines is quite the reasonable interjection.

The old clubhouse @ PG was built after the 1960 back nine was built and a new starting point for the course was determined. Many of those golfers who still play there (or use to) put their homes up as collateral to back the old clubhouses construction.

The farce that has become the PG muni is attributable to two men. Mostly though it was the former Super/GM, Mike Leach. It was his dream to build a new clubhouse as a monument to himself, almost since the first day he got the job. And that was after his application hit the circular file. Fast forward 15 years and The enterprise fund had saved some 4 million for an expected and potential environmental clean up before the interior dept. turned over the ground to the city. As it turned out, there was none needed. So, the monies went for the new clubhouse. A new clubhouse that none of the golfers wanted. They even signed a petition stating so. But even after that  and a 6+ mil over run, the city politicians would throw it back into their face saying that the golfers wanted it. That was up until Mike Ayala reminded them at one of their meetings about the petition. As I understand it, it was one of the golfers, a former Mayor, Morrie Fischer, who ended up fucking all the golfers with the wrong vote. 

Dick, Is there any legalease way to protect these types of venues from the ignorant unborn future politicians?

[Lou_Duran]

JVB,

I am aware that Pajaro is privately owned (by Pete Galea's father-in-law, as I recall), and that is why I used it as an example.  I am surprised that they are contemplating a larger clubhouse, but if they are, I am sure it is in response to customer demand as opposed to non-economic factors (such as the alleged motivations for PG's expansion).  Do the words "ever got the approval" to do something on their property on their dime not bother you just a little bit?

As to deserving a break by virture of living in the confines of PG, is the course sustained by the local taxpayer or by its own revenues?  When and how was the course acquired?  Fairness and entitlement are important issues.  No one questions that the city can set the rates as it wants.  I just wonder if it is smart or fair.  I understand how those who are subsidized might see no problem with the arrangement, and being in an expensive resort area (that's most of coastal CA) probably has some bearing as well.

[Mike Benham]

Is the course sustained by the local taxpayer or by its own revenues? 

When and how was the course acquired? 

Fairness and entitlement are important issues.  No one questions that the city can set the rates as it wants.  I just wonder if it is smart or fair. 

I understand how those who are subsidized might see no problem with the arrangement, and being in an expensive resort area (that's most of coastal CA) probably has some bearing as well.

All fair and valid questions and points, unfortunately, an issue that almost every municipality has had to deal with over the years, for golf courses, parks, libraries and community programs in its operating budget.

Supply and demand will provide the answer whether the city is right or wrong on its pricing structure ...

[David Stamm]

Wasn't PG deeded to the city for use by it's residents by Morse from the beginning?

[rjsimper]

Wasn't PG deeded to the city for use by it's residents by Morse from the beginning?

To play devil's advocate for a moment...nothing is preventing the residents from using it for recreation...it just costs a little more now.

If the intent was for a pure "resident use" facility, then wouldn't PG residents be entitled to free greens frees? Seems like the current shift, while understandably upsetting, can't really be invalidated by referencing the original Morse charter.

Does anyone have an answer regarding the current state of the tee sheet at PG Muni?

[Trey Stiles]

I'll never forget the 1st time I saw PG ... I was up to my ears in the Bayonet/Blackhorse deal , I wanted to confirm my initial impressions in regard to which market segment we should compete in @ Bayonet/Blackhorse  ( don't blame me for how it ended up ) ... Our staff briefed me on all the non upper end deals around ... I noticed that they left PG off the list ... When I asked , I was told that I should not count it , because it was just a short little muni that was not really any good .... I insisted that PG be on my visit list.

Not being familiar with the area , I drove up , saw this fabulous golf course surrounded by Pacific Ocean ... I thought , I must really be lost and I'm @ Spanish Bay ... I had played SB years earlier and I thought .... This looks alot better than SB

After checking the map , I found the old CH and confirmed that it was PG .... I thought to myself " We just bought the wrong golf course , this place is fantastic ! "

Sorry you guys are having so much trouble with the city.

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