My new favorite....

[Chip Gaskins]

I never ever thought I would say this, but I recently played a course that ousted Pine Valley for my favorite spot....Shinnecock Hills has done it.

About a month ago I played Shinnecock and have waited to post my reaction to make sure I wasn't making a rash decision when I called it my favorite course on the #14 tee before needing to see the last few holes :-)

How can a course could ever be better than Shinnecock Hills is beyond me.  Sandy links type soil, fantastic and interesting green complexes, width, options off the tee, variety in the short holes, great par 5s, etc, etc, etc.

One of the best pieces of land I have seen for a golf course


A really cool angle on #3 from the back left tee box (you can even sneak over the fence and get a few cheese crackers from the National halfway hut :-)


Flynn's Redan (I almost got it up and down from the right bunker!)


#5 Green (maybe the best complex on the course)


Best #10 in the world?


Wow, WOW!


My new favorite hole in the world


#15 from behind


The snaking #16 heading in..


#17, sure feels like a Redan to me minus just a little green tilt


In summary I doubt I ever play a course I like any better than Shinnecock Hills.

PS.  I am very intrigued by why what Macdonald/Raynor did here wasn't very good.  The piece of land is equally as good as NGLA.  I just wonder why they had to dig it up (other than the highway) and not try and keep more of what they did.  Either way, what Flynn left is nothing short of perfect.

[Bill_McBride]

Chip, did you like it that much better than NGLA? 

I played 36 at NGLA one day a couple of years ago and didn't play well enough to really get the full experience, but I thought it was fantastic.  Haven't played Shinnecock but hard to see how it could be a whole lot better than NGLA.

Those are really good photos, nice work!

[ed_getka]

Chip,
   Thanks for sharing the pix. Why is the hole you pointed out your new favorite hole in the world? What is your handicap?

I haven't played Shinnecock yet, but it is clearly one of the best courses in the world from everything I have heard over the years.

[Scott Szabo]

Boy you've had a run the last year or so, those are some great courses!  Be careful or you'll replace Huckaby as "America's Guest"!

[Kalen Braley]

Boy you've had a run the last year or so, those are some great courses!  Be careful or you'll replace Huckaby as "America's Guest"!

I'm afraid Huckaby has already been knocked off that perch by the travelings of John Mayhugh over the last year or so!! 

[Chip Gaskins]

Bill-

I really did like Shinnecock that much better than NGLA.  As much as I love the template holes and have really been on a Macdonald/Raynor kick lately, Shinnecock is just so much better from a hole by hole standpoint  Obviously the courses share the same piece of property for the most part but the Shinnecock just feels more friendly and at the same time majestic.  I didn't feel there was any hole that "had to be a certain way" and really played along the natural contours of the land.  Thinking back to the run from 10-13 is just perfect GCA.  I think the green complexes are much better at Shinnecock than NGLA.  I think NGLA might be a little more "fun" but Shinnecock is "better" (much better).  But again, its just my opinion.

Ed-

The 14th runs through that natural valley where you can try and challenge the right bunker to get a shorter shot in and then the second shot continues up that same valley to a greensite that seems perfectly placed.  It is a long hole and allows for the ball to be run in if needed.  Just a fantastic long, hard, fair, natural hole.  GCA at its best.

2nd shot


Looking back


I don't have a handicap card, I don't keep score usually, rather take pictures and talk GCA with my host.  Could be a 73 or 86, depends on which swing shows up.

Scott-

I am honored to be in the same sentence as Huckaby, the nicest guy on this site.  I am just a very very lucky guest.  Amazing what a few hand written thank you notes will do.  I have a crazy good trip starting in a few days to Chicago/Milwaukee/Traverse City...eight rounds...can't wait!!!

[Phil McDade]

Chip:

I'm struck in your pics -- and others on this site (Mucci) have noted -- by what appears to be somewhat narrow fairway corridors, esp. for a sandy-soil, fast-running, links-ish site often beset by decent winds. What are your thoughts having played it?

[Emil Weber]

These two holes look VERY similar to me. I haven't played there, but both holes very redan-ish.

[Ed Oden]

Chip, I agree with your thoughts.  I started a similar thread last year.  Shinnecock is clearly the best course I have played.  While NGLA is as fun as golf gets, there is no doubt in my mind that Shinnecock is the better course.  And I don't agree with those that claim it is too tough for average golfers, at least absent extreme conditions.  I haven't been fortunate enough to play Pine Valley yet.  Perhaps my opinion will change if I ever get there.  Then again, perhaps it won't.

Ed

[Matthew Runde]

...While NGLA is as fun as golf gets, there is no doubt in my mind that Shinnecock is the better course...

Ed, would you expound on that?  That's a very interesting idea, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

[Mike_Cirba]

Somewhere in Dornoch, Rihc is gloating and Huckaby knows why. 

Chip...nice thread.

Shinnecock is very special, indeed.

[Scott Szabo]

Bill-

I really did like Shinnecock that much better than NGLA.  As much as I love the template holes and have really been on a Macdonald/Raynor kick lately, Shinnecock is just so much better from a hole by hole standpoint  Obviously the courses share the same piece of property for the most part but the Shinnecock just feels more friendly and at the same time majestic.  I didn't feel there was any hole that "had to be a certain way" and really played along the natural contours of the land.  Thinking back to the run from 10-13 is just perfect GCA.  I think the green complexes are much better at Shinnecock than NGLA.  I think NGLA might be a little more "fun" but Shinnecock is "better" (much better).  But again, its just my opinion.

Ed-

The 14th runs through that natural valley where you can try and challenge the right bunker to get a shorter shot in and then the second shot continues up that same valley to a greensite that seems perfectly placed.  It is a long hole and allows for the ball to be run in if needed.  Just a fantastic long, hard, fair, natural hole.  GCA at its best.

2nd shot


Looking back


I don't have a handicap card, I don't keep score usually, rather take pictures and talk GCA with my host.  Could be a 73 or 86, depends on which swing shows up.  Lowest round on a top course is 74 at Merion....but then there is the 92(ish) at Olympic last time.

Scott-

I am honored to be in the same sentence as Huckaby, the nicest guy on this site.  I am just a very very lucky guest.  Amazing what a few hand written thank you notes will do.  I have a crazy good trip starting in a few days to Chicago/Milwaukee/Traverse City...eight rounds...can't wait!!!

You must also have a very understanding wife!

[JC Jones]

Great pictures Chip.  Congrats on finding your new favorite.

[Ed Oden]

...While NGLA is as fun as golf gets, there is no doubt in my mind that Shinnecock is the better course...

Ed, would you expound on that?  That's a very interesting idea, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

NGLA is an absolute blast in evey aspect.  There are few if any places more fun to play.  But Shinnecock is just...pure.  I can't conceive of anything I'd want change.  For more detail, you can look at my initial post here...

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33021.0/

[Bob_Huntley]

I said it ten years ago and say it again, Shinnecock is fantastic.

Thirty-three years ago I played National in the morning and had a wonderful round of golf plus a luncheon fit for a a gourmet. In the afternoon, I played Shinnecock and at the time thought it the better of the two, purely from a degree of difficulty. Today, at my advanced age, I would prefer to play the former and learn more of its inticacies and delights than the stern test that Shinnecock demands.

I have had many offers to go back to Long Island and for some reason or another the chance to play the courses have fallen through, should I have the chance though, I would prefer the National to beating my brains out at the other place.

Bob

[Mike_Cirba]

Bob,

That one gets bashed around the head at Shinnecock is one of the great myths of that game.

It is more Muirfield than Carnoustie, and more Pinehurst than Oakmont.

[Matthew Runde]

...While NGLA is as fun as golf gets, there is no doubt in my mind that Shinnecock is the better course...

Ed, would you expound on that?  That's a very interesting idea, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

NGLA is an absolute blast in evey aspect.  There are few if any places more fun to play.  But Shinnecock is just...pure.  I can't conceive of anything I'd want change.  For more detail, you can look at my initial post here...

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33021.0/

Many thanks.  That explains it very well.  In your photos, I can see many elements of the type of course I've been wanting to design.  The natural use of the hills and valleys; the use of levels, without grotesquely-constructed mounds; curving lines; and enhanced and diminished visual perception.  Strategically, the 7th is glorious.

[JC Jones]

Bob,

That one gets bashed around the head at Shinnecock is one of the great myths of that game.

It is more Muirfield than Carnoustie, and more Pinehurst than Oakmont.

Not sure it is a myth for Bob if it is based upon his own personal experience and opinion.

[Adam Clayman]

Chip. Aren't you concerned that starting threads like this will put a damper on your amazing access run?

[Chip Gaskins]

Adam-

Not exactly sure how starting a thread about how great a golf course is would have any bearing on where I play or don't play?  Its not like I started a thread saying SHGC was a goat track.  I thought this site was talk about the GCA merits of these places, no?

Chip

[Tom Huckaby]

I don't know why Goodale would be gloating.  Please explain, Mike.

To me the choice between these two very very great (each clearly top 10 in the world) choice remains very revelatory.  Love tests of golf?  Prefer Shinnecock.   Love quirky weirdness and magic?  Prefer NGLA.

Put me down for the latter, with total understanding of those who prefer the former.

TH

ps - good god yes I was knocked off that perch ages ago... by others besides Mayhugh too... hell Mayhugh cannot be compared anyway.  We cannot rank professionals.   

[Jim Franklin]

I agree NGLA is the funner of the two and my preference. Shinny is the more diffucult and better test. Both are in my top 5. I think Sebonack fits in nicely with its neighbors in terms of quality golf too.

[Bill_McBride]

I said it ten years ago and say it again, Shinnecock is fantastic.

Thirty-three years ago I played National in the morning and had a wonderful round of golf plus a luncheon fit for a a gourmet. In the afternoon, I played Shinnecock and at the time thought it the better of the two, purely from a degree of difficulty. Today, at my advanced age, I would prefer to play the former and learn more of its inticacies and delights than the stern test that Shinnecock demands.

I have had many offers to go back to Long Island and for some reason or another the chance to play the courses have fallen through, should I have the chance though, I would prefer the National to beating my brains out at the other place.

Bob

Agree, just have to play the Alps hole as a par 5!

[George Pazin]

POSTER'S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS BASED SOLELY ON PHOTOS AND TV. IT'S NOT MEANT TO OFFEND, MERELY IN INSPIRE DISCUSSION.

I find it really difficult to accept "best land for golf" courses I've seen almost anywhere in the US. Rumpled land looks to be what separates UK links from all of the wonderful "tests of golf" we have over here. It just seems like damn near every US course shown on here and on the tube from major championships, etc., the fairways just look so smooth compared to the rumpled landscapes of true links.

Of course, there are likely many that would argue the smooth nature properly favors the better golfer; less quirk = better course. Fair enough, I just don't see it myself.

I'm one of the few that loved watching the '04 US Open at Shinney. Even so, I prefer watching almost any Open Championship.

Thomas said strategy is the soul of the game. I'd argue imagination is.

[JC Jones]

George,

I recommend a trip to northern michigan to play Kingsley, Crystal Downs and up to Greywalls if you are looking for "rumpled" fairways.