Greatest Links Golfer Ever

[Ron Csigo]

Just thought I'd throw this question out there given all the coverage and media surrounding Tom Watson's first round.  Is there a better links golfer than Mr. Watson given his Open accomplishments - 5 Open Championships and 3 Senior Open Championships.  Is there a better links player than Tom Watson?  If so, then who?

[Kenny Baer]

I would take; Jack Nicklaus. 

His British Open finishes from 1966-1980
He finished out of the top 10 1x; Finished in the Top 3 12x and in the Top 6 every year but 1.
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[Jim_Kennedy]

This guy wasn't bad.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3mc2a_swing-harry-vardon_sport

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Peter Thomson won 3 consecutive Opens:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thomson_(Australian_golfer)

[Michael Blake]

Vardon

[Mark Smolens]

Where's Melvyn M when we need him???

[Garland Bayley]

Clearly Young Tom was the greatest!

Melvyn

 

[Mark Smolens]

Wow, he's here even when he's not 

[Bob_Huntley]

Peter Thomson won 3 consecutive Opens:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thomson_(Australian_golfer)

And 5 Opens overall. Possibly the best professional small ball player for the first half of the twentieth century.

Bob

[Chris Kane]

Thomson's record in the Open from 1951-1971:

T6-2-T2-1-1-1-2-1-T23-T9-T7-T6-5-1-T8-T8-T24-T3-T9-T9

Eighteen top tens in twenty-one years!

[Rich Goodale]

Watson is easily the best, as his record was against all the best players in the world, unlike all the other possible candidates.  What he did over the past two days is phenomenal, and is only icing on the cake.

[Garland Bayley]

Ben Hogan!

Perfect record!

Spent his time perfecting his links game at Seminole.

Would have taken down Watson given the chance.

[Bill_McBride]

Watson was clearly better than any of those old guys today - and it's 20++ years since his last Open win!

[Mike_Clayton]

You can look at a couple of things here.
One is the record book and Watson,Nicklaus and Thomson all have incredible records - not just wins but high finishes.

You can also look at the way different players played links courses.
I remember Watson saying once that if he had to play three weeks of links golf in the wind he would lose his swing. Maybe right, maybe not. What was amazing to me was that he never seemed to hit a punch shot with a cut of follow through.
He hammered hit quite high through the wind and that worked because he hit is so solidly.

Thomson had a much more traditional approach to the shots on links courses.He was the master at landing the ball short and running it up to the green - and you got the impression he could play windy links for months on end and never lose his swing.
It was a swing build for the links game and Watson and Nicklaus had swings built for America that adapted so well simply because they were such brilliant players.

Christy O'Connor was a great links player in terms playing the unique shots demanded by links courses as was Lee Trevino.

The reality is the best players win because they are the best players - no matter the course. Hogan proved that at Carnoustie.

[Kenny Baer]

I like JN's record the best. Against superior competition he finished in the Top 6 in 17 out of 18 years!!!!! That is not HUMAN!!
Nobody was better for longer than Jack; his Open record from 66-80 is truly astonishing.

Thomson's record in the Open from 1951-1971:

T6-2-T2-1-1-1-2-1-T23-T9-T7-T6-5-1-T8-T8-T24-T3-T9-T9

Eighteen top tens in twenty-one years!

[Mike_Clayton]

Kenny,

The is an argument that says that Jack's Open record proves he was not such a great player of the links.
He was the best player in the world for almost 20 years.
He was in the top 10 almost all the time - despite having a game you could suggest was not suited to links golf - simplistically he played a high fade - as opposed to a low running draw.
If he could have played the links like Thomson and mastered the shots Thomson mastered he might have won 10 Opens.
If Thomson had the power of Nicklaus he might have won 10 Opens.
Hogan was  sort of in-between the two- and if he had played the 10 Opens between 1951 and 1960 he might have won them all.

Playing devil's advocate - you could argue 3 wins after all those years and in contention that many times was a poor return.

Perhaps his brilliance was adapting his game to the links. Thomson and O'Connor did not have to do that.

[ed_getka]

Mike,
   You bring up some interesting points. If Watson didn't alter his swing for the Opens then what do you think accounts for his 5 wins vs. Jack's 3?

Where do you play next? Or I should say where are you most looking forward to playing next?

[Mike_Clayton]

Ed,
How is everything over there? I was at the Lost Farm this week - it is going to be fantastic. You need to get back soon.
I don't know there is an answer to the Nicklaus v Watson question of 3v5.
Watson was a little lucky perhaps in 75.He is a shot behind playing partner Miller on Carnoustie's 18th.Miller takes 2 to get out of the fairway bunker and Tom makes it from 25 feet for 3 and an eventual tie with Newton - who he beat in the playoff.
In 82 Nick Price gave it away at the end.
The other 3 - 77,80 and 83 there was not a hint of luck - just great golf.
I am not sure what Jack would say but he gave it away in 63,Lema got the break with the draw in 64, de Vicenzo beat him in 67,Player in 68,Trevino in 72,Watson in 75 and 77. They were all close but perhaps if he had just a little more of the unique skills of Trevino or Thomson he would have won them all. Who knows!?

I go back for a month of tournaments in August and September.The courses are nothing really to look forward to - Woburn is decently good and I don't know the others. The couple of weeks off inbetween the tournaments are more exciting. I am planning a week with John Huggan at Dornoch and Machrihanish - with a visit to Machrie to see if it is really as good as Bob Harrison says it is -  and another week somehwhere else - Morfontaine for a day is possible which is always fantastic.

[ed_getka]

When is Lost Farm slated to open? I would love to come down, but being in North Carolina makes that flight down even less appealing. Of course, given your professional travels I don't suppose I will have a sympathetic audience.
   Post some of your thoughts on Machrihanish after you've played. Any thoughts on going to check out Castle Stuart when you go over to Dornoch? Machrie certainly sounds like a course worth spending a day on to enjoy golf at an elemental level.
   Best of luck in your next stretch of competition.

[Mike_Clayton]

Ed,

Lost Farm will be open some time in the middle of next year - maybe a little earlier.
We are doing Castle Stuart as well - I knew there was one I had forgotten.

[Jim Nugent]

Hogan was  sort of in-between the two- and if he had played the 10 Opens between 1951 and 1960 he might have won them all.

This is why Thomson's record is not as impressive to me. 

[Kevin Pallier]

Define greatness ?

Does one's game or victories or longetivity define greatness ? is it a mix of these ?

As there is no definitive answer - as far as "pure records" go one cant go past Nicklaus resume in The Open Championship. 13 Top 3 finishes - higher than Vardons and over double Watsons (5W/1 Third). Watson was obviously great as closing the Tournament out when close. Who knows how many Open's Young Tom may have won if not for his unfortunate passing.

I can only go off tape re: Thomson but it seems his game was "ideally suited" to Links golf as Mike alluded to. His record isn't diminished for those that didn't turn up. How many players have won the same Major 3 years in a row ?

[Mike_Clayton]

There was no greater fan of Hogan than Peter Thomson.
It was a pity that they only duelled in one Open in 1953 when Thomson tied for 2nd.
it would have been a fascinating contest.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Young Tom (Morris, not Younger Tom Watson) retired retired the entire championship.

Dominance defines greatness and killing an event defines dominance.

Ergo Young Tom.

[Melvyn Morrow]

The Greatest Links Golfer Ever

Not an easy one, I have gone through all the names including old Willie Parks, Old Tom, Young Tom, Peter Thompson, Jack Nicklaus & Tom Watson plus a few more.

I can’t as yet decide who I believe is in my eyes The Greatest Links Golfer Ever. My problem is how can you compare each generation with the other. What about the courses they played over, thinking about the quality and numerous traps on the earlier, balanced with the ball and equipment used, looking at the pre 1930’s courses and equipment with the better (or is it) drainage system courses started to install, not to mention the constant improvement with ball and club.

I must admit because of the construction of modern courses and technology used in equipment , I have discounted any modern player, feeling that I can in all honesty say I do not believe any of them would qualify as the Greatest. For me it is a question of what was the real impact on my life to generate a feeling that this person was the Greatest Links Golfer ever. Much to Pats annoyance, I seriously considered Old Tom, not just for his Open wins or runner up positions, nor for that matter his 35 Open he played in, yet in the end I could not choose.

I have after much thought and consideration made up my mind. My decision is based upon how that golfer persuaded me that Links Golf was first and foremost the best place to play and enjoy golf. It has in truth nothing to do about winning, everything to do about the quality of links golf, the ever-changing conditions one encounters from AM to PM, the opportunity to play both the ground and air game. Something we saw at last year Open by Greg Norman in his first few rounds.

I nominate the late James Hunter Morrow, my father as the Greatest Links Golfer Ever for teaching me the magic of Links Golf.

Melvyn

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