[Joel_Stewart]

Is Ala Wei golf course in Honolulu the heaviest played golf course in the world?

In 2006 they had 159,931 rounds.  I'm told in the late 1990's they use to do 200,000 rounds.



They benefit from:

a. open for play 12 months
b. locals and tourists
c. dirt cheap

[Adrian_Stiff]

Is Ala Wei golf course in Honolulu the heaviest played golf course in the world?

In 2006 they had 159,931 rounds.  I'm told in the late 1990's they use to do 200,000 rounds.



They benefit from:

a. open for play 12 months
b. locals and tourists
c. dirt cheap

If its just 18 holes that seems unrealistic. If you think about 200,000 rounds and divide by 365 days, and if everyone played as a 4 ball that with every 8 minutes as the interval period thats about 20 hours golf per day and further assumes it never rains, there is no christmas day, the course is cut in the remaining 4 hours each day. I suspect St Andrews with the 6 courses would only be around this number.

[Tim Leahy]

I would bet that Rancho Park muni in Los Angeles gives it a run for its money on most rounds per year. I have never seen a course that is so crowded dawn to dusk.

[John_Conley]

Braemar, the municipal course in Edina, MN, once boasted on their welcome sign that they had done 400 rounds the day before.  Could you do over 100,000?  Maybe.  200,000?  I don't see how.  Is is a 'full' course that would take 4 hours to play?

Winter Pines in Winter Park, FL is a crazy busy course.  I've heard it many times that it is the most played course in America/World but have no idea if that's true.  They get a ton of play.  Year 'round and cheap, which seems to match Ala Wei's formula.  Winter Pines is a par 36-31 track, about 3,150 yards on the front.  The back is very difficult to score on due to the number of long par 3s.

[John Moore II]

Here is the list from this months Golf Digest dealing with muni courses:




None of those are close to 200,000 rounds.

[Joel_Stewart]

There is some talk the govenor wants to close it and make it into a park.

http://archives.starbulletin.com/2000/10/03/news/story2.html


As for 200,000 rounds, the above article quotes the NGF saying it did 220,000 rounds in 1983.

"In 1983, the National Golf Foundation said that of the 13,000 golf courses in the United States and 20,000 in the world, the Ala Wai with its reported 220,000 rounds was the most heavily played 18-hole regulation facility.

In 1986, Ala Wai recorded 197,549 rounds. That dropped to 176,000 last year, but still made it the most heavily used municipal course in the country."

[Adrian_Stiff]

550 rounds per day??? we did 156 today starting at 7.30 and they have not finished yet....The absolute most youcould do is 456 in one day... say you start at 4.30am tee off in 4s every 8 minutes and have last tee time at 7.30pm ie finish around 11.00pm... if you did that every single day that its 164,340.... so something is not right

[John Moore II]

550 rounds per day??? we did 156 today starting at 7.30 and they have not finished yet....The absolute most youcould do is 456 in one day... say you start at 4.30am tee off in 4s every 8 minutes and have last tee time at 7.30pm ie finish around 11.00pm... if you did that every single day that its 164,340.... so something is not right

Adrian, this course is only 5800 yards with a course rating of 66.8. Given that it is likely not a tourist course, its probably the same people playing every day. According to the course website, the starter house is open from 6am to 6pm daily. Bump the teetimes to 6 minutes, and say people tee off until 7pm (given the course I think they could finish by 10pm, or maybe just play 9 holes) you get  190736 rounds over 364 days a year (assume they close Christmas Day). And thats just with teetimes. It comes to 524 golfers a day. Its somewhat possible.

[Tom Huckaby]

Gents - the place allows - nay seems to encourage - 5somes.  I know, I've played there.  OK my info is dated at least 20 years, but I can't imagine that policy changing.  It also rather makes the math work better.

[DMoriarty]

Eight minutes?  Do you guys ever play public courses?   Last I played Rancho it was 6 minutes between tee times.  My guess is that these courses are counting early-bird nine hole rounds, and late day partial rounds, and other partial rounds caused by slow play.

I am surprised there are no L.A. County (as opposed to city) courses on this list.  Some of them are reportedly at above 120,000 on a fairly consistent basis, with fivesomes.

[Adrian_Stiff]

550 rounds per day??? we did 156 today starting at 7.30 and they have not finished yet....The absolute most youcould do is 456 in one day... say you start at 4.30am tee off in 4s every 8 minutes and have last tee time at 7.30pm ie finish around 11.00pm... if you did that every single day that its 164,340.... so something is not right

Adrian, this course is only 5800 yards with a course rating of 66.8. Given that it is likely not a tourist course, its probably the same people playing every day. According to the course website, the starter house is open from 6am to 6pm daily. Bump the teetimes to 6 minutes, and say people tee off until 7pm (given the course I think they could finish by 10pm, or maybe just play 9 holes) you get  190736 rounds over 364 days a year (assume they close Christmas Day). And thats just with teetimes. It comes to 524 golfers a day. Its somewhat possible.

John- It is not possible; the length of the course is not so much the issue, Its hard to get 4s off with a 6 minute turn, it will rain, even though this course is near the equator you still can only get 12-13 hours average play... 456 assumes 4.30 light up to 11.00. The figures are completely bogus unless they are 9 hole rounds, the course has more than 18 holes or is floodlit. 550 rounds is about 4 times the rate a normal golf course would be called busy. An normal field for a tournament (dawn to dusk play) is 156 you just cant near quad that.

[Sean Leary]

It gets dark early in Hawaii as well.

I agree with David and think it includes 9 hole rounds. I also wonder whether they allow people to tee off the back in the Am for 9 hole rounds as well.

[DMoriarty]

It gets dark early in Hawaii as well.

I agree with David and think it includes 9 hole rounds. I also wonder whether they allow people to tee off the back in the Am for 9 hole rounds as well.

Rancho tees off early bird 9 hole rounds on the back.  I assume these other courses do as well.  LA County courses allow 5somes.

[Joel_Stewart]

I am surprised there are no L.A. County (as opposed to city) courses on this list.  Some of them are reportedly at above 120,000 on a fairly consistent basis, with fivesomes.

Look at post #4, there are 3 courses in LA making the top 10.

[astavrides]

I am surprised there are no L.A. County (as opposed to city) courses on this list.  Some of them are reportedly at above 120,000 on a fairly consistent basis, with fivesomes.

Look at post #4, there are 3 courses in LA making the top 10.

edit: Los Verdes being an LA Co. course, Rancho and Harding LA city courses.  La Mirada is in Orange Co, just outside LA county limits.

[Greg Tallman]

Bizarre,

When we were headed toward 45,000 on our "premium course" we made the decision to scale back by cutting twilight... among other things

[John Moore II]

550 rounds per day??? we did 156 today starting at 7.30 and they have not finished yet....The absolute most youcould do is 456 in one day... say you start at 4.30am tee off in 4s every 8 minutes and have last tee time at 7.30pm ie finish around 11.00pm... if you did that every single day that its 164,340.... so something is not right

Adrian, this course is only 5800 yards with a course rating of 66.8. Given that it is likely not a tourist course, its probably the same people playing every day. According to the course website, the starter house is open from 6am to 6pm daily. Bump the teetimes to 6 minutes, and say people tee off until 7pm (given the course I think they could finish by 10pm, or maybe just play 9 holes) you get  190736 rounds over 364 days a year (assume they close Christmas Day). And thats just with teetimes. It comes to 524 golfers a day. Its somewhat possible.

John- It is not possible; the length of the course is not so much the issue, Its hard to get 4s off with a 6 minute turn, it will rain, even though this course is near the equator you still can only get 12-13 hours average play... 456 assumes 4.30 light up to 11.00. The figures are completely bogus unless they are 9 hole rounds, the course has more than 18 holes or is floodlit. 550 rounds is about 4 times the rate a normal golf course would be called busy. An normal field for a tournament (dawn to dusk play) is 156 you just cant near quad that.

Adrian-tournaments do 156 with 10 minute teetimes. You are assuming 8 minute intervals, I will gaurantee they do not use 8 minute intervals, I'd bet they use 6 minute intervals, thats why I used that figure. And now Huck says they use 5somes. OK, let me do the math right here on the page so you can see it.

12 hours of teetimes (from 6am until 6pm) X 10 teetimes per hour (6 minute intervals) = 121 teetimes (if you don't know where the extra one comes from, you don't know how to figure teetimes)

121 teetimes X 4/5 golfers per time = 484/605 golfers per day

605 golfers per day X 364 days (lets assume they close Christmas Day) =  176,176/220,220 golfers

Add in 1 hour of teetimes per day going off #10 for 9 hole rounds: 11 times X 4/5 golfers = 44/55 X 364 = 16016/20020

The total here comes to 192,192 or 240,240 total potential golfers per year.

Add in ever how many golfers you figure might tee off after 6pm and play partial rounds until dark and you could well be looking at 260,000 potential rounds per year. Even if you lose 20% of your rounds to rain, you're still looking at possibly 190,000+ rounds total.

[Tony Weiler]

I'm new here, except for lurking for about 6 years! (thanks Ran).  Thanks for that math.  Makes sense to me now. 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Look quite simply, you cant tee off when you someone is infront of you; Think how long it takes to tee the ballup and hit it, multiply that by 4 or 5 which is obviously longer, those people have to walk to their ball hit it out of range. These maths of a 5 ball every 6 minutes assume each person is a golfer capable of hitting the ball where they want to, be out of range of the next group, run to their balls..its complete paddywhack!!! I find it unbelievable that you can even think theses could be 18 hole rounds x 200,000 in one year. I accept 100,000 could be done. Hawaii will average 12-13 hours of playtime, but you need to deduct 3 hours, because the last time needs 3 hours to complete.
A 2 ball is 6 minutes, a 3 ball is 7 minutes , a 4 ball is 8 minutes... 10 minutes for a 4 ball is better, but it takes time for each person to tee off, roughly 1 minute. It takes roughly 3 minutes to walk the 200 yards and there is time to complete the next shot. Time is lost when groups search for balls, errant tee shots, etc... The figures are probably 9 hole units.

[Tom Huckaby]

Adrian - I am pretty sure it's also not rounds completed, but rounds started.

JKM's math makes sense to me.  Remember the fivesomes part.

TH

[Adrian_Stiff]

Adrian - I am pretty sure it's also not rounds completed, but rounds started.

JKM's math makes sense to me.  Remember the fivesomes part.

TH

I absolutely despair with this site sometimes, how can it make sense!!!!!! how do they cut the grass, how do they fertilise, top dress, aerate...can you not see you cant tee a 5 ball off consisently every 6 minutes? every additional person takes time to hit,
You have 9 hours of tee times not 12.
The LA muni's are all busy but all close to a 120,000 number, this one just goes wacky...its obviously busy but just cant do 200,000. I can believe 100,000+ because here in the UK some busy muis have done 80,000 and we get bad weather, but at 80,000 they are wall to wall. In all honesty 45,000 rounds is very busy.

[John Moore II]

Adrian - I am pretty sure it's also not rounds completed, but rounds started.

JKM's math makes sense to me.  Remember the fivesomes part.
TH

Of course my math makes sense. Adrian has just never played with fast golfers. Lets see here, if groups play in 2:45 (and given the length of the course and the fact that its likely not a tourist course, i.e. a members course) then it would take a little over 9 minutes to play a hole. At least half of that will be on the green, so the group in front aught to be cleared out of the fairway within 5 minutes. That gives plenty of time for a 6 minute teetime interval. If they are in carts, it should take no more than 1 minute to get to a ball. If they are walking, then all golfers walk to their ball at the same time and move on along. Its very reasonable for those who have seen how a course works.
The sunrise/sunset times in Honolulu today was 5:57am and 7:17pm. You could still tee people off until 6pm, that would give roughly 2 hours of playing time (I've played until at least 1 hour after sunset). So you can legitimately get 12 full hours of teetimes.

And you misunderstand, I said they could potentially get that many teetimes. Given the need to maintain (unless they do it all at night) I get that its not really possible. Also, you have to figure on at least 3 days per year closed due to aerification. I only said you have the potential to tee off 260,000 golfers a year, roughly.

[Chris DeNigris]

These guys probably count anyone on the putting green, driving range, snack bar and rest rooms as "rounds played"...

5-somes on a muni playing at 6 minute intervals?.....that's probably just over a 3 hr round...most of the 2-balls around here are slower than that!

Methinks these guys are seriously into chocolate...lotsa fudge going on.

[John Moore II]

These guys probably count anyone on the putting green, driving range, snack bar and rest rooms as "rounds played"...

5-somes on a muni playing at 6 minute intervals?.....that's probably just over a 3 hr round...most of the 2-balls around here are slower than that!

Methinks these guys are seriously into chocolate...lotsa fudge going on.

If a 4some can't get around a 5800 yard golf course in 3 hours, they need to stop playing. I played Pinehurst #3, a course that fits this description, but also through a neighborhood in about 2 1/2 hours walking, and I had to wait on the first 4 holes. I was in a 4some that played Pinehurst #1, another short course, in about 3hrs 15 minutes and we literally waited on every shot after the 2nd hole. We could have finished at least 30 minutes faster than we did. On short, easy golf courses, sub-3 hour rounds are very real. Now, on a 7300 yard course thats Oakmont tough, there is no way to finish that fast, but on a short course, its pretty much normal to play in 3 hours.

[Brad Tufts]

I have no arguments for the math, as I suppose it could be plausible.  (Lies, damn lies, then statistics)  I'm sure the numbers can be weaseled by us or the course to fit 190K rounds.

However, no one is playing in three hours (save for maybe the first group, if it isn't a 4some) at Ala Wai.  I have not experienced it myself, but I have talked to several who have played AW.  The rounds are closer to 5h, 30m than even 4 hours.

I have hit balls there, and I had to wait 90 minutes for my "tee time," and this was at 10pm under the lights.  It is one of the busiest places I have ever been golfwise.

"3 hour rounds on a 5800 yard course are very real" does not apply here.  The place is a factory, and you better plan most of your day to play at AW.  The only way they get to 190,000 is by counting every person that pays for a hole at the shop.

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