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JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
American Style
« on: July 14, 2009, 09:23:16 AM »
So I am chatting with a buddy yesterday and he is telling me about his friend who won his club championship this past weekend at Sandy Lodge in London.  We were talking about the course a little bit (as I am not familiar with it) and he mentions that his buddy used to be a member of a club (Coombe Hill?) on the southside of town and that it was much more of an AMERICAN STYLE course.  I asked him to describe, in his opinion, what American Style was (keeping in mind that this guy has never paid any attention to architecture in his life and assumes a course is good if it has a prominent designer along the lines of Nicklaus, Dye or Palmer) and this is what he said:

Narrow Fairways
Lots of Trees
Target golf

How sad.  I tried to explain to him that what he was describing was "modern" and that there were courses in the US that were not that style and he said "yeah, well, most are so I call it American style."
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: American Style
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 09:28:07 AM »
JC,

I can't say that I disagree with him.

Chevrolet is known for economic, no frills cars. They also produce the Corvette. Should they be known as a sports car company? Of course not.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: American Style
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009, 09:31:38 AM »
JC,

I can't say that I disagree with him.

Chevrolet is known for economic, no frills cars. They also produce the Corvette. Should they be known as a sports car company? Of course not.

Joe

I think it only describes certain courses.  Many courses were designed prior to the "modern" movement and were, subsequently "modernized" with the addition of trees and the narrowing of the fairways.  I dont think that means they were "Americanized."

Right now, Chevrolet should only be known as bankrupt! :)
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Andy Troeger

Re: American Style
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2009, 09:45:07 AM »
JC,
That description absolutely correlates to the LARGE percentage of American golf courses--even among the better ones many are target golf. Especially for someone who just watches golf on TV, it would absolutely seem that many courses are target courses with trees because that's where the pros play.

But that's like an American watching the British Open rota and thinking every course there is a links. Many are, but there are other styles and wonderful courses that don't fit that description.

Phil_the_Author

Re: American Style
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 12:29:01 PM »
The majority of "American" courses so identified because of the trees that grace(?) their fairways weren't so originally. The trees are almost the result of one or more of the following; well-intentioned bequests or gifts by members and guests, green committee's desires or poor maintenance. Rarely were courses cut through forests to the extent that row after row of trees were left to lear over the play on the hole or course.

American architects disliked trees as much as those in the U.K.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: American Style
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009, 12:33:13 PM »
JC - I'm not sure your friend's characterization of US courses is wrong. Certainly there are exceptions. Maybe even lots of  exceptions. But as a general rule, he's not very far off the mark regarding the current state of courses in the US.

Bob

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: American Style
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009, 01:11:34 PM »
So I am chatting with a buddy yesterday and he is telling me about his friend who won his club championship this past weekend at Sandy Lodge in London.  We were talking about the course a little bit (as I am not familiar with it) and he mentions that his buddy used to be a member of a club (Coombe Hill?) on the southside of town and that it was much more of an AMERICAN STYLE course.  I asked him to describe, in his opinion, what American Style was (keeping in mind that this guy has never paid any attention to architecture in his life and assumes a course is good if it has a prominent designer along the lines of Nicklaus, Dye or Palmer) and this is what he said:

Narrow Fairways
Lots of Trees
Target golf

How sad.  I tried to explain to him that what he was describing was "modern" and that there were courses in the US that were not that style and he said "yeah, well, most are so I call it American style."

Agreed.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: American Style
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2009, 01:19:02 PM »
As with most generalizations, this one has some basis in truth.  Parkland design is common in the U.S. because the main population centers are located in envrionements with fresh water and precipitation, heavier soils, and trees.  But if one travels the country, there is quite a bit of variety, and more so today than ever before.

As Philip notes, trees were added after the fact at many sites, but trees (particularly deciduous varieties) have always been dominant in area landscapes.  In effect, I think golf courses were adapted to the local environments (Shadow Creek in Vegas being the exception), much like links courses fit the Scottish coast.

I would suggest that this adaptation to the local climate and soil conditions in the U.S. is not much different.  Considerable wind, lack of rain or very porous soils result in wide fairways and firm conditions.  While many prefer these conditions, "American Style" golf is better than no golf at all.   I am curious, are London area courses when compared to, say, NYC or Chicago courses by age that much different?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: American Style
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2009, 01:27:00 PM »
So I am chatting with a buddy yesterday and he is telling me about his friend who won his club championship this past weekend at Sandy Lodge in London.  We were talking about the course a little bit (as I am not familiar with it) and he mentions that his buddy used to be a member of a club (Coombe Hill?) on the southside of town and that it was much more of an AMERICAN STYLE course.  I asked him to describe, in his opinion, what American Style was (keeping in mind that this guy has never paid any attention to architecture in his life and assumes a course is good if it has a prominent designer along the lines of Nicklaus, Dye or Palmer) and this is what he said:

Narrow Fairways
Lots of Trees
Target golf

This style accurately describes a lot of courses in the UK as well.  I have no idea of the percentages, but I am forever lamenting the fact that trees have taken away intended angles of play. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Melvyn Morrow

Re: American Style
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2009, 01:52:00 PM »

JC

I think your friend was being somewhat considerate, as most of the golfing problems are happily blamed upon the American Style rightly or wrongly. Never been to the USA but hey that has never stopped me (ask Tom H) :) ;)

Sean,

I agree but is that not down to American Designers coming over here to design courses. ;)
 ;D
Melvyn

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