Snead vs. Nicklaus

« **on:** July 12, 2009, 02:06:49 PM »

It's on CBS right now...at least here in the mountains...very good overview of each hole.

« **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2009, 02:10:16 PM »

By the way...1963 event..Shell World of Golf...playing Pebble Beach.

« **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2009, 03:05:26 PM »

Saw the last 3 holes, wish I had seen more. They really had to rap their putts, didn't they?

Course looked much rougher around the edges than it does now.

« **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2009, 03:41:15 PM »

Thanks Craig. That was interesting.Didn't realize the 10th tee shot played across the water then.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2009, 09:16:30 PM »

Quote from: mike_beene on July 12, 2009, 03:41:15 PM

Thanks Craig. That was interesting.Didn't realize the 10th tee shot played across the water then.

That shot looked a bit like the 4th back tee at Pacific Dunes.

The greens looked to be running about 5, Snead hit a bunch of really good long pitch and runs that had to be belted.

« **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2009, 09:45:53 PM »

I just finished watching the match off my DVR. A few thoughts.

Any doubts about how long Nicklaus was when he was young?? Wow!

The bunkering actually looks better then with it's ragged, irregular, unkept look.

It was cool to see trees in color on the left side of the fw on 18.

I think the overall conditions of the course look more attractive to me then the way it looks now. It almost looks too pristine now.

I've been in the spot Snead was in greenside on 16. I wish I could say I hit a similiar shot. What talent!

I loved seeing the inconsistent lies the players were faced with throughout. So cool.

I would've loved to have seen the peninsula myself during this time period, before the commercialism really took hold.

« **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2009, 11:34:43 PM »

I was very impressed with Snead's short game! He must have hit at least 4 or 5 chips/pitch&runs,some from well off the green, that could easily have gone in. Could Snead have been the best 52 year-old golfer ever?

« **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2009, 11:52:37 PM »

Bunkers had deep beach sand, but fried eggs and buried lies came out soft.
No cart paths.
Daisies in the fairway.
No irrigation in the roughs.
17 Mile Drive ran alongside the right side of #2, range to its right.
A lot fewer trees (and better views), but one removed naturally tall tree at the water's edge on 18 at the first turn point.
Is that bunker right of #16 still there?
Green fees likely still covered the maintenance costs.
Loved the bunker look, especiallt #7.

Craig, I gave fair warning about four or five days ago.

« **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2009, 12:46:44 AM »

Was fun to see Snead right of the road on #2.

The sand in the bunkers sure produced some tough lies.

The amount of BROWN throughout the course was great to see.

The hats on the ladies in the gallery!

The dog in the gallery on #1!

The lack of cart paths was great.

Wow the greens were slow and bumpy.

Nicklaus sure crouched low in his putting stance back then.

17 seemed so wide open from the tee!

The scorn for the old #5.

The lack of opulent homes on the perimeter.

I could go on....

« **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2009, 06:58:45 AM »

Nicklaus said the sand in the bunkers was beach sand. How basic can it get?

« **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2009, 07:14:38 AM »

Not a single shout of "It's in the Hole!"

« **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2009, 07:42:36 AM »

Quote from: David_Tepper on July 12, 2009, 11:34:43 PM

I was very impressed with Snead's short game! He must have hit at least 4 or 5 chips/pitch&runs,some from well off the green, that could easily have gone in. Could Snead have been the best 52 year-old golfer ever?

Yes -- he won the Greater Greensboro Open (back then a pretty prestigious PGA Tour stop) at the age of 52. More amazing to me was that he finished T-3 (behind only Trevino and Nicklaus) at the '74 PGA at Tanglewood at the age of 62. After he turned 60, Snead finished T-4th, T-9th, and T-3rd in the '72-'74 PGAs. The best post-50 golfer ever.

« **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2009, 08:35:10 AM »

Kevin Reilly -

Nice catch on "the hats on the ladies in the gallery." There were some beauties!

DT

« **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2009, 09:08:41 AM »

David Stamm makes a nice observation here. The look of the course is more natural in the past. Pebble Beach is better aesthetically natural than over manicured. Can we blame Augusta National for this? Bring back the good ol' days.

Anthony

« **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2009, 09:23:29 AM »

Neat how JN was chuckling/marvelling at the conditions they used to play in, the patchy/long grass in the fairways, the shots made possible by the (slower) speeds of the greens. My imagination, probably, but I think I sensed a longing for those simpler, less pristine times; maybe it was a little nostalgia for a time when he was king of the game. Also neat how simply but directly the commentators referred to the architecure -- e.g. over the edge of the water, the more of the water you risk carrying, the shorter the approach shot. (Not rocket science, granted, but then again what else is there to say....)

Peter

« **Reply #15 on:** July 13, 2009, 09:25:57 AM »

No wall to wall cart paths.

« **Reply #16 on:** July 13, 2009, 09:50:15 AM »

What did I see ? Was the tee on the 10th near the cliff, and required a decent carry across the chasm ?

Was that a one-off tee just for the match ?

Did subsequent cart path installations push the tee up the hill, much further from the cliff ?

« **Reply #17 on:** July 13, 2009, 10:04:53 AM »

Quote from: john_stiles on July 13, 2009, 09:50:15 AM

What did I see ? Was the tee on the 10th near the cliff, and required a decent carry across the chasm ?

Was that a one-off tee just for the match ?

Did subsequent cart path installations push the tee up the hill, much further from the cliff ?

I believe that tee was always there. I have an aerial photo from that era that shows a tee out on the cliff. I am guessing they moved the tee to lengthen the hole, not to accomodate new cart paths.

Ultimately, I agree with all of the comments made above. I think the course's rougher maintenance increased the variety of hazards and challenges that the player faced. When would today's golfer have to the shots that Nicklaus hit on 5 and 17? I wouldn't even know how to play them. It was also cool to see players hit lower-lofted clubs around the greens. A player could never hit Snead's pitch shot on number 8 the way he did with a 9-iron!

It was also interesting to see the informal nature of the gallery--no ropes, dogs walking with the players, limited numbers of people. Imagine Tiger playing in a match right after he won the 1997 Masters. It would have be pandemonium!

« **Reply #18 on:** July 13, 2009, 10:18:23 AM »

maybe such "scruffy" - and that is not a criticism on my part- conditions is why Jack, at least before is not stiill today, pushed for such high levels of maintenance at his designs

« **Reply #19 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:29:08 AM »

It was interesting to see players hit 1 irons - I wonder who was the last player on tour with a 1 iron?

The 7th green seems to be a different shape - it was bigger and more kidney shaped than today. I will try to post photos to show the difference

« **Reply #20 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:33:32 AM »

Quote from: Wayne_Kozun on July 13, 2009, 11:29:08 AM

It was interesting to see players hit 1 irons - I wonder who was the last player on tour with a 1 iron?

The 7th green seems to be a different shape - it was bigger and more kidney shaped than today. I will try to post photos to show the difference

Wayne,

I think Joey Sindelar was the last - up to about five years ago. I was just reading on the weekend about what a masterful 1 iron player Sandy Lyle was - a nice skill to have.

« **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:34:40 AM »

Quote from: DSchmidt on July 13, 2009, 11:25:50 AM

Hitting a marshmallow ball 285-290 in heavy Pacific air on soft, shaggy fairways with a dinky 300 cc wood-wood is nothing short of massively long.

I still marvel at Snead's swing. I also marvel at how many putts he makes with that stroke.

But most of all, I marveled at Pebble in a far less commercialized state, and all the better for it.

This was Nicklaus at his longest - before he lost the weight.

They had a close-up of Jack's ball on 17. Looked prehistoric.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:38:14 AM »

Here is a comparison of 7 in 1963 vs. a more recent photo I found on the web.

More recent

« **Reply #23 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:51:29 AM »

Quote from: Wayne_Kozun on July 13, 2009, 11:38:14 AM

Here is a comparison of 7 in 1963 vs. a more recent photo I found on the web.

More recent

Looks like that bigger, and more dangerous back right corner was turned into that out of place round pot bunker at some point..............

« **Reply #24 on:** July 13, 2009, 11:53:16 AM »

More phots from the match

8th hole tee shot flyover

10th from tee

News:

Craig Sweet

Craig Sweet

Phil Benedict

mike_beene

Bill_McBride

David Stamm

David_Tepper

Pete_Pittock

Kevin_Reilly

Phil Benedict

Phil_the_Author

Phil McDade

David_Tepper

Anthony Gray

Peter Pallotta

Bill_McBride

john_stiles

JNC Lyon

PThomas

Wayne_Kozun

Will MacEwen

Phil Benedict

Wayne_Kozun

Bill_McBride

Wayne_Kozun

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