[Adam Clayman]

Vindication on Holmes park. . Brown county had a similar feel to Holmes. Great facilities especially for tourneys. 

[Chris_Blakely]

They got Maryland and Virginia wrong.  Maryland should have gone to Greystone in Baltimore County, and Virginia should have gone to Laurel Hill in Fairfax (granted, at $99/round weekend).

I agree 100% with Greystone over Black Rock.

As for Virginia, I was thinking the old TPC course that the city bought that is now Virginia Beach National. 

[Chris_Blakely]

This whole thing is flawed as it is based on the "star" ratings which are nothing more than a popularity contest.


Cranberry Highlands in PA is in the western part of the state. Anyone here ever played there? I wonder how it would compare with Inniscrone now that Hanse's course is now a muni.

I have played Cranberry Highlands it is a solid to very good golf course.  They allow walking and have reduced rates for the area residents.  I have not played Inniscrose, so I can compare the two courses.  I did not balk as much as when I saw Ohio, Virginia or Maryland.

[Chris_Blakely]

Ohio is a head scratcher, I would think the following courses would all be ahead of the Vineyard:

1.) Sleepy Hollow (Cleveland)
2.) Manikiki (Cleveland)
3.) Champions (Columbus)
4.) Eagle Creek (Norwalk)
5.) Ellsworth Meadows (Hudson)
6.) J.E. Good Park (Akron)

Chris

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's an article about Links of Boynton Beach in FL:


www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/local_news/epaper/2009/07/07/0707thelinks.html

[astavrides]

This whole thing is flawed as it is based on the "star" ratings which are nothing more than a popularity contest.


Cranberry Highlands in PA is in the western part of the state. Anyone here ever played there? I wonder how it would compare with Inniscrone now that Hanse's course is now a muni.

I have played Cranberry Highlands it is a solid to very good golf course.  They allow walking and have reduced rates for the area residents.  I have not played Inniscrose, so I can compare the two courses.  I did not balk as much as when I saw Ohio, Virginia or Maryland.

I agree with your opinion of Cranberry.  Inniscrone is probably a little better, but might be a little more polarizing.

[Doug Ralston]

For the OH-KY-IN area...

Indiana - Have heard lots of good things about Hulman Links, so can't really dispute that one.

Kentucky - Very surprised at Eagle Creek in La Grange winning this.  If Bethpage counts for New York, wouldn't the Kentucky State Park courses count here? I can think of many of those (Hidden Cove, Dale Hollow, etc.) that are better than Eagle Creek.  And if those don't qualify, I think Lassing Pointe or Kearney Hill are better courses.

Ohio - The Vineyard?  Really?! What about Sleepy Hollow or Manakiki in Cleveland, or Weatherwax (any set of 9s) in the Cincy/Dayton area? Don't really agree with this selection.

Criss;


I would rate Vineyard ahead of Weatherwax [any 2 nines], but agree about the Cleveland ones.

Of course Eagle Creek in KY is absurd; an utterly mundane course. Sadly, GD once again shows the NEVER WENT(!) to KY courses. All those who have played the State courses [of which 15 are better than Eagle Creek] just have to laugh and be contemptuous of Golf Digest [again!]!

Raters here have told me they would go, or did go. Nyet!

And sadly it really does matter. With the Park courses fighting for State dollars, it is sad to see such a course be given undeserved publicity that would have helped far better courses at risk.

And, of course, you are also right, that Kearney and Lassing Pointe far exceed Eagle Creek too. *sigh* I give up trying to change this crap.

Doug

[Matthew Rose]

Vindication on Holmes park. . Brown county had a similar feel to Holmes. Great facilities especially for tourneys. 

Was always partial to Pioneers myself, but then again, I did work there

[Garland Bayley]

This whole thing is flawed as it is based on the "star" ratings which are nothing more than a popularity contest.

You got that right. The best course in WA is Chambers Bay (although some wine expert pretender would have us believe it has been supplanted). Somehow, although it is a muni, it didn't get selected. The course selected is the second best at the 36 hole muni complex where it resides. What it amounts to is more people play it since it has the lower green fee and thereby it wins GD *s popularity contest.


Chambers Bay, Torrey Pines, and Bethpage Black may charge high fees to non residents. However, they have substantially reduced fees for residents that qualifies them as munis in my book. Don't want to pay high fees for world class golf at Bethpage and Chambers? Get politically active and get your local government to build something to match them.

[Doug Wright]

Let's see:

New York--Bethpage Black...OK...

Colorado--City Park GC!

This is just stupid. City Park isn't even the best muny in Denver (Wellshire is). There are 4-5 munys in Aurora that are much better. What about Fossil Trace, owned by the City of Golden? How could anyone publish something like this? 

 

[Matt_Ward]

The sad part with this is that Digest internally likely doesn't see how their lack of research only diminishes greatly the plus that talking about muni golf does.

There are certainly quality places as so many people have mentioned -- in nearly all of the cases it's clear Digest has the wrong course / club for the top spot in the respective states.

Steve S hit the nail squarely on the head -- the star system used is a joke -- it's a Gallup poll invention and it permits people who have scant knowledge of quality courses to weigh in simply because they have an opinion. Big difference between opinions and informed ones.

[Kalen Braley]

I see they put down Bountiful Ridge as the best muni in Utah....which at least isn't too far off, it is one of the better offerings, although there is far too much eye candy and fakery on the course for my liking.  Oodles of artifical streams, ponds, water falls, etc.  I guess another course profile will be making its way to GCA.com soon.

As for the muni's I've played I can think of many that are better that BR including WingPointe, Bonneville, South Mountain, and Riverbend...and thats only right here in the Salt Lake Valley.

[Chris_Clouser]

Criss T.

I would disagree with Hulman Links as the best municipal course in the state of Indiana.  I would put it in the third tier of public courses in the state in my personal ranking system, close to Buck Point.  Yes, it is a nice course and provides the traditional muni feel while still being a very solid course, but the people who put that there are obviously not paying attention to the current state of the game in Indiana.  Blackthorn is better and probably in the second tier of courses around the state.  And in case anyone didn't know the Fort is owned by the state and is on the premises of a state park, just like Bethpage.  So I can't believe that didn't win out.  My guess is that these are the same people that ranked these courses back in the 1980s when there were no other options and they haven't been back out to rank the courses since then.  Yet another reason why I can't believe people fall for the rankings when they come out each year.

[Garland Bayley]

...My guess is that these are the same people that ranked these courses back in the 1980s when there were no other options and they haven't been back out to rank the courses since then.  ....

Chris,

As has been pointed out, the rating was by the public at large. If you are popular locally and played a lot you win. If you happen to be good, that is entirely secondary.

[Buck Wolter]

If Waveland in Des Moines isn't the best Muni in Iowa somebody must have built a good one in Orange City.

[Matthew Rose]

Let's see:

New York--Bethpage Black...OK...

Colorado--City Park GC!

This is just stupid. City Park isn't even the best muny in Denver (Wellshire is). There are 4-5 munys in Aurora that are much better. What about Fossil Trace, owned by the City of Golden? How could anyone publish something like this? 
 

Forgot about Wellshire. Played it for the first time recently after driving by it all the time. I can't imagine too many pure munis I would rather play. It has a name architect (Ross) and a storied history (former tournament host)... while those things in themselves do not a top golf course make, they would appear to me that they represent two things Wellshire has that others on the list do not.

[J Sadowsky]

I know Jack Nicklaus designs aren't revered around here, but I've heard good things about Breckenridge, too.

[Criss Titschinger]

And in case anyone didn't know the Fort is owned by the state and is on the premises of a state park, just like Bethpage.  So I can't believe that didn't win out. 

Chris, no arguments here.  I wasn't sure if The Fort fell under the definition of a Muni. If that's the case, I completely rescind my previous statement about Hulman Links 

[Kirk Gill]

Let's see:

New York--Bethpage Black...OK...

Colorado--City Park GC!

This is just stupid. City Park isn't even the best muny in Denver (Wellshire is). There are 4-5 munys in Aurora that are much better. What about Fossil Trace, owned by the City of Golden? How could anyone publish something like this?  

I have a great fondness for City Park GC, but it's hard to know how you would define your ranking system in such a way as to present it as the best muni in Colorado. I can't say it's marketing or any of the other theories previously presented here. It sure does get a lot of play, though, so that must be it.

On the plus side, it's very old fashioned, it's right in town rather than out in the sticks, it's cheap, and there used to be a quality bbq place right there in the clubhouse. On the negative side, though, the good bbq has been replaced by mediocre mexican food, the course is hopelessly old fashioned, and it's right there in town so you might hit someone's car off the tee and get your ass beat by the car's owner (don't laugh, it's happened). Seriously, though, Doug's right. It's got its charms, but I can't rate it the best Denver muni (I like Wellshire, Willis Case, AND Evergreen better), much less the best one in the state. For me, I'd probably go with Murphy Creek out in Aurora, but I can't say I've played all of 'em.

[Tom Yost]

A tip of my hat to the selection of Dobson Ranch GC in Mesa AZ.   A true MUNI course that I called home for about eight years and still play 4-5 times a year.  Although I have to say in my view, it may be the second best muni in AZ (Papago #1), it is still an above average choice in a market that has huge pool of public golf choices.

The course is attributed to Red Lawrence, but I'm guessing that by 1974, much of the work may have been done by his associates Jeff Hardin and Greg Nash.

[Matt_Ward]

Kirk:

You hit the nail squarely on the head -- the city of Aurora has a few layouts that could make the grade -- led by Murphy Creek. Heck, you even have Golden's Fossil Trace which has been mentioned a few times heres. On the west side of the state you have the likes of Devil's Thumb in Delta which is a fine layout (finished 2nd to Rustic Canyon a few years back when Digest still voted for the "best new affordable."

The problem is that gleaning info simply from the "star system" that Digest uses wiith those who participate is not helpful. The magazine clearly has a number of tools in which their desire to highlight muni golf could have been done far more better than what was presented in the pages.

[JC Jones]

I am pleasantly surprised to see my one of my former hangouts mentioned - Leslie Park in Ann Arbor.  Its good, but nothing special.  That said, I can't think of another muni in Michigan that is clearly better.  There are quite a few very good holes in the first 11 and the course does flow well despite the alterations by one of GCA.com's  persona non gratis.  However, after the 11th the course does sort of fizzle out.  Its worth a go if you are in the area and can't get on Michigan or Barton Hills.  All this said, if Leslie is representative of the list, I don't have much confidence that this list was worth producing.

Ciao

Sean,

I'd say that either Cascades in Jackson or L.E. Kaufman in Grand Rapids are better.

That being said, there is a 9 hole Ross owned by the city of Elk Rapids.  I haven't played it so I couldn't tell you anything about it or if there are any Ross holes left.

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know if any of the Elk Rapids course is "original Ross" or not, but I could not fathom it as the best muni course in Michigan.  It's nothing special.

On the converse, I have never played City Park in Denver, but my associate Eric Iverson plays it pretty regularly and likes it a lot.  So I'm willing to bet it doesn't suck.  And frankly, I would rather find out about a few older courses like that, than about the latest and greatest $80 muni in every big city.

[Jeff Shelman]

The Minnesota pick is a disaster. Played Superior National last weekend during a weekend on the North Shore and it was very disappointing.

I knew it wasn't the greatest layout, but the service was bad, the greenside bunkers alternated between mud and concrete and it was overpriced.

Other than that, it was great.

[Sean_A]

I am pleasantly surprised to see my one of my former hangouts mentioned - Leslie Park in Ann Arbor.  Its good, but nothing special.  That said, I can't think of another muni in Michigan that is clearly better.  There are quite a few very good holes in the first 11 and the course does flow well despite the alterations by one of GCA.com's  persona non gratis.  However, after the 11th the course does sort of fizzle out.  Its worth a go if you are in the area and can't get on Michigan or Barton Hills.  All this said, if Leslie is representative of the list, I don't have much confidence that this list was worth producing.

Ciao

Sean,

I'd say that either Cascades in Jackson or L.E. Kaufman in Grand Rapids are better.

That being said, there is a 9 hole Ross owned by the city of Elk Rapids.  I haven't played it so I couldn't tell you anything about it or if there are any Ross holes left.

I don't think Kaufman is better than Leslie, but I do think Cascades is.  That said, I think its more a preference issue because I don't see any one of these three as clearly better than the other.  None of them are of particular merit other than to offer pretty good and affordable golf.  Callem' Doak 4s if you like - which is why to this day I am absolutely stunned that Doak could give Michigan a 3.  The guy must have walked around with shades on in the dark.  He is so far off the mark that I gotta believe something was askew with his eyes.  That or I am way off the mark, which is unusual when I compare my thoughts to Doak's.  I think Michigan is at least a 6, maybe 7.  Sorry for the digression.

Ciao

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