[Peter Pallotta]

David - Thank you, I'm glad you shared that with me. I don't have an answer to your rules question, but you're obviously one of the very few who can appreciate the unique challenges that come with generating too much spin on a 160 yard sand wedge shot. I don't usually get a lot of sympathy when I complain about that.  If it happens this weekend in Michigan, don't let the bastards up in Kingsley get you down -- know that somewhere there is someone who understands. (Btw, I had to back out of the Kingsley trip a few days ago; I was very much looking forward to it, and to at least meeting up with a guy who drives a BMW 2002 and plays with 36 year old forged blades --those two things don't come IN and OUT of style, they ARE style!)

Peter

[PCCraig]

I just bought a new set of wedges, but I tend to go through one set every couple years, and I don't plan on playing in the Open next year, so I'm assuming the next time I buy a set they will be the new grooves (or maybe I already bought wedges with new grooves?)

As I've read, the only time the grooves make a difference are when the player is hitting from the rough or wet grass and it makes almost no difference from the fairway/clean lie.

[Tom Huckaby]

Peter:

I can say with all honesty, humility and sincerity that one has not really played this game until he has played with David Schmidt.

The man rather puts the F in fun.

Make it happen.  Hell, what am I talking about?  I sure need to make it happen AGAIN.  It has been way too long.

[Phil McDade]

I'm 43.  These are the first regular sized clubs my dad ever put in my hand.  I love 'em.  '73 Hogan Directors.  Plus, they match the year of my '73 tii...

A buddy of mine plays with an older set of forged Hogan irons -- I mean, from the mid-1960s or so, I think. What it is about those old Hogan irons? Were/are they that good?

[Chuck Brown]

I actually bought those 10th Anniversary 400 series Vokeys.  Among Vokey lovers, that special edition sold out in hours.  I want about a 20-year supply of pre-2010 square-groove Vokeys, and those 400 series wedges are actually Bob Vokey's personal favorites.

I'm not thrilled with the USGA's methodology in all of this -- they should be revising the golf ball performance specs.  But insofar as this is a rule that applies to newly-manufactured clubs (with a VERY gradual phase-in of Conditions of Competition applying a "new equipment only" condition to elite players), I can easily live with it, because it won't much change anything I do, but for the fact that this year I'll buy four new wedges instead of two new drivers.  Wedges this year, drivers next year.

[Chuck Brown]

I'm 43.  These are the first regular sized clubs my dad ever put in my hand.  I love 'em.  '73 Hogan Directors.  Plus, they match the year of my '73 tii...

A buddy of mine plays with an older set of forged Hogan irons -- I mean, from the mid-1960s or so, I think. What it is about those old Hogan irons? Were/are they that good?

The thing with the old Hogan Apex models with the Apex shaft is this; they combined a low-launch, high CoG muscleback head (feels great on center hits but tends to launch low) with the Hogan-spec Apex shaft, which, compared to Dynamic Gold, had a very soft tip.  That soft tip section produced wonderful feel but tended to launch too many balloon balls for many elite players.  (Dynamic Gold has been the ruanaway winner of the most-used iron shaft for years until lately.  It's still the plurality choice despite more Rifles, KSB's, etc., finding their way into more and more players' bags.  And it is because tour pros, unlike recreational players, like a heavy, tip-stiff, low-launch iron shaft.)

[George Pazin]

What it is about those old Hogan irons? Were/are they that good?

He probably just uses them to psych out opponents. Brad Swanson was playing with irons at Black Mesa that looked like butter knives to me. Of course, he hit them nice and pure, so they might as well have been.

[Mike Benham]

Dave -  Do the grooves on the hosel have to abide by the new USGA specs?   

I may or may not be implying that you use that part of the club ...

[Mark Smolens]

As soon as my handicap gets down to 1.2, I will abandon my Dave Pelz wedges.  Alas, due to the vastly increased LOFT in my game, the index is going the wrong way 

[Tom Huckaby]

Mark - just wanted you to know that I for one knew EXACTLY what you meant there.  LOFT is killing me also.

 

[Mark Smolens]

I'm glad, I guess, that you can smile about it Mr. H.  Started the year at just over 4, and am now at 8.3R (if my actual handicap were calculated, without old tournament scores, I'd be a choplike 13).  At this point, the only way I'll be abandoning my square grooves is if one of my clubs "slips" into a pond. . . which is certainly a distinct possiblity

[Ken Moum]

I'm not giving up my square grooves... period.

Not that they really do me that much good, but I love being able to hit a low spinner that stops on the second or third bounce and that's simply not possible with v grooves and today's golf balls.

If the change means that we'll be able to buy golf balls that spin more on little pitches, I am going to be one of the happiest golfers in Kansas.

[Tom Huckaby]

I know it's painful Mark and I should not joke... I just have been at a plateau of relative LOFT for about 25 years, so it's become comical to me.  I accept that I suck.  Perhaps that comes with age?

[Pat Burke]

I'm 43.  These are the first regular sized clubs my dad ever put in my hand.  I love 'em.  '73 Hogan Directors.  Plus, they match the year of my '73 tii...

DS, not sure if we still have them, but someone donated a couple sets of Directors to our program.
We were going to cut them down for our kids to beat the hell out of, but if you need any replacement heads let me know
Not really sure which year they are

[John Moore II]

I'm 43.  These are the first regular sized clubs my dad ever put in my hand.  I love 'em.  '73 Hogan Directors.  Plus, they match the year of my '73 tii...

A buddy of mine plays with an older set of forged Hogan irons -- I mean, from the mid-1960s or so, I think. What it is about those old Hogan irons? Were/are they that good?

Yes, Hogan irons are that good. When I do get another set of clubs, assuming I don't component build them myself, I will get a set of Hogans. If they don't conform to the groove rules, I'll send them off to have them refinished to comply. For good players, I think Hogan blades are the absolute best of the best. I honestly wish I had never gotten rid of mine.

As far as will I change, not until my current ones wear out (at my current rate of play, that aught to take 8 or 10 years) or if I decide to really start practicing again and qualify for some semi-major events.

[Tim Gavrich]

This is probably not new thinking, but it hasn't yet been put on this thread.

I think the groove rule change is going to go a long way towards solving a lot of problems with golf course yardages.  As all irons start spinning less because of less aggressive grooves, the pros are going to need softer golf balls, more like the balata-covered ones they used to play.  You all know that more backspin means more sidespin as well, as well as less distance off the tee. Even though clubs are engineered to minimize sidespin, the natural increase should promote more shaping of shots and make fairways play narrower, especially for the big hitters.  And of course, regular rough will play longer and scores should eventually trend a little higher.  I like it.

As for my wedges, they have the square/U grooves and it looks like unless I somehow learn to play well in qualifiers and get into a US Open, I should be alright with what I've got.

Also, blade-type irons have probably changed the least out of any kind of golf equipment in the last couple decades.  If you're good enough to make nice contact with current blades, the old ones should be just fine as long as you take care of them.  You might consider getting them reshafted at some point (which is not a form of giving in to current technology; it's just potentially dangerous to have 30 year old shafts in your irons).

[John Moore II]

Tim-I think the ball makers will do something with additional covers to make the ball spin differently with the driver and the wedges; they all ready do that, but I mean even moreso.

I don't know, I can tell the difference in the deep box grooves in the wedges, but I can't really tell the difference between my old V groove Hogans and the U groove clubs I have now. Even on the PW, I can't tell a major difference in the spin between the two. Like I say, I can tell a major difference in the low wedges.

I don't think you will see a major roll back in course distances or rough length on a daily basis. You will just see ball makers spend even more money researching golf balls to make them really low spin on the driver and ultra high spin on the wedges.

[Tom_Doak]

I guess I will have to replace my old Ping Eye-2 irons after twenty years of service.

I wasn't really worried about rules conformity -- I can shoot 85 to 90 with just about any clubs, and I don't always take my own clubs when I travel these days anyway.  However, in the past nine months I've lost both my 5-iron and 8-iron when the shaft snapped just above the hosel at impact.  I guess they can only take so much abuse from baggage handlers and poor winter care!

[C. Squier]

Dave, I disagree....today's blades are WORSE.  Why can't a guy get a blade that DOESN'T act like a game improvement iron?  I feel like Crocodile Dundee....."You think that's a knife?  THIS is a knife!" whenever I see a new set of "blades" in someone's bag.  I owned/played a set of Davis Love III's Hogan Apex that he had further ground down.  The wear mark was truly the size of a dime.....on the 2 iron.  The rest were smaller.

On that note, anyone have a new set of MP29's scuttled away in their basement? 

[Tim Gavrich]

I guess I will have to replace my old Ping Eye-2 irons after twenty years of service.

I wasn't really worried about rules conformity -- I can shoot 85 to 90 with just about any clubs, and I don't always take my own clubs when I travel these days anyway.  However, in the past nine months I've lost both my 5-iron and 8-iron when the shaft snapped just above the hosel at impact.  I guess they can only take so much abuse from baggage handlers and poor winter care!

If you take your irons to a good club fitter/repair person, he/she might be able to get the shaft material out of the hosel of your Eye 2s, depending, I suppose, on where the break was.  Having them reshafted will be a lot less expensive than getting new irons.  If you can do that, you'll be able to keep the heads of perhaps the most influential set of irons ever made (a few guys on Tour still play them).

[C. Squier]

I guess I will have to replace my old Ping Eye-2 irons after twenty years of service.

I wasn't really worried about rules conformity -- I can shoot 85 to 90 with just about any clubs, and I don't always take my own clubs when I travel these days anyway.  However, in the past nine months I've lost both my 5-iron and 8-iron when the shaft snapped just above the hosel at impact.  I guess they can only take so much abuse from baggage handlers and poor winter care!

If you take your irons to a good club fitter/repair person, he/she might be able to get the shaft material out of the hosel of your Eye 2s, depending, I suppose, on where the break was.  Having them reshafted will be a lot less expensive than getting new irons.  If you can do that, you'll be able to keep the heads of perhaps the most influential set of irons ever made (a few guys on Tour still play them).

Relatively simple surgury will get the ends of the shafts out.....throw the heads in a box and send them over.  I have a garage full of golf repair gear that my wife swears I never use.  This would prove her wrong 

[Brad Swanson]

On that note, anyone have a new set of MP29's scuttled away in their basement? 

No, but I have a well worn set of these game improvement beauties in my bag.

Cheers,
Brad

[Carl Rogers]

Once I wear out my new 60 degree vokey, new 60 degree cleveland cg14 & and partially used 60 degree cleveland dsg 588, i will evaluate ... until then heck no.

[Ken Moum]

I guess I will have to replace my old Ping Eye-2 irons after twenty years of service.

Unless they are the Eye2+ version, you don't have a worry. Karsten's old agreement with the USGA is still in effect.

Ken

[Ian Larson]

What the hell are square grooves? I could absolutely care less. I'll still be using my 1990s Tommy Armour Silver Scots with Hogan Wedges and historic Northwestern persimmon putter and school of you suckers.

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