More Ballyhack photos, with some fall colors pics

[Scott_Burroughs]

[Scott_Burroughs]

Here are photos taken 25 Jun, the day before the official opening day, a member-only affair:

[ed_getka]

It looks like the course is rounding into shape nicely. I am interested to hear what the thoughts on the playability of the course are when people get out to take a look. There are a couple of greens with some really big tiers that I am curious to hear how well they work. The other hole I'm very interested to hear about is the downhill hole with the split fairway that plays to the right side of the double green.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Whoops, forgot to set the width to 800 in todays' set.  Fixed it (no scrollbars).

[Mike Hendren]

I indicated elsewhere that my recent Kingsley trip changed many of my view of golf course architecture.  To wit, I have previously found the photographs of Ballyhack to be contrived, heavily engineered and unappealing, and vaguely suggested such.  This morning I see an entirely different golf course in these photographs and hope to one day form a first-hand opinion.  I fear I have given the modern golf course short shrift in my analyses.

Bogey

[Lester George]

Scott,

Thanks for posting.  As always you have really chosen the interesting photos to show. 

Ed,

The members and guest who have played have had very positive comments and are having a lot of FUN playing the course.  It does look more ferocious than it really is. 

The green tiers are an interesting feature at Ballyhack and can really place a demand on precision.  I have had a couple of pin placements that I have felt were marginal and in both cases it was because the pin was at the bottom of the tier but too close to the tier.  As I was grumbling about one of them (saying that it would be very difficult to stop a ball coming from the top of the tier) my senior design associate (and all-world smart alec) Glenn Muckley proceeded to chip the ball from ten yards down the fairway past the hole, using the up slope, and rolled it right back into the hole!!!!  He did this in mid-sentence of my criticism.  HOLED IT!!  Needless to say, it shut me up (which some say isn't easy) and proved once again that imagination in shot-making determines score more often than design.

As for the 15th hole, the fairway isn't really split.  It is more "J" shaped.  I hope you aren't looking at it wrong.  In the picture above, the fairway on the left is 14.  The 15th does however have a "short porch" (to the right of the primary landing area) which allows a more direct route to the green if you can hit it from the tee.  People were questioning that during construction but now understand it and are having a great deal of fun playing it that way.  It actually allows the shorter hitter to hit a tougher target and get home in two so he can compete with the bomber.  I has taken two or three times for people to find out (local Knowledge) that there is an advantage there, but now I see at least 1/3 of players trying it. 

Michael,

Please come play it.  I would be very surprised if you felt it contrived after seeing it.  You are correct in your observation in that it has "softened" a lot since the grass has grown in.  In my opinion, this softening effect takes place on all golf courses as they mature.  Therefore, while designing and building, if you want a dramatic edge, you must over-cook it a bit to accommodate for the later softening.  This is most prominently demonstrated in the works of MacDonald, Raynor and Banks to me.

Lester   

[Eric Smith]

Lester,

These latest pictures do make me want to play the shots as presented by the photographer (and in turn the designer) - a redeeming quality of interesting golf in my book.

Is the turf Zoysia? If so, what type? 

Thanks and congratulations on another job well done.

Eric

[tlavin]

I indicated elsewhere that my recent Kingsley trip changed many of my view of golf course architecture.  To wit, I have previously found the photographs of Ballyhack to be contrived, heavily engineered and unappealing, and vaguely suggested such.  This morning I see an entirely different golf course in these photographs and hope to one day form a first-hand opinion.  I fear I have given the modern golf course short shrift in my analyses.

Bogey

Be careful with the honest approach!

All kidding aside, I agree that it is easy to dismiss courses like this when only viewing photographs.  It's too facile an analysis to degrade this bunkering look as manufactured eye candy trying to pass as minimalist architecture. 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Ballyhack  That is a very unique name for a course.

[Cory Lewis]

I had the pleasure of playing Ballyhack yesterday.  The course looks even better in person than the pictures make it out to be.  It is truely an amazing experience to play this golf course.  The greens at Ballyhack are some of the best I have seen on any modern golf course. Big or small, each green has tremendous contours that make every pin placement exciting.   I would recommend that if you play it you give yourself enough time to play 36 because you'll want to go out again after you finish the first 18.  It's the type of golf course where you will discover something new and exciting every time you play it. 

[Jason McNamara]

Ballyhack  That is a very unique name for a course.

It's easy to be skeptical, but iirc that is the very name of the town where the course is located.  (There's also one in County Wexford, but that likely had little do with name selection - directly, that is.)

So this is merely a happy accident of geographic nomenclature.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Nice pictures Scott.  The weather seems to have been ideal for the grow in.  Can't wait to see it in an "open" state.  JC

[Phil McDade]

Whoops, forgot to set the width to 800 in todays' set.  Fixed it (no scrollbars).

Forgive me for highjacking this thread, but this disappoints me. I refuse to downsize any photographs in a stubborn attempt to get those who host this website to change the single worst part of the site redesign -- the silly scrollbar problem. I hope others who regularly post photos to this website will join me in this effort. To force photos onto less than half the width of most computer screens these days is just non-sensensical.

To paraphrase George Costanza: I know less about software and web design than...anyone. Is this really that hard to fix? Anyone on the board who could lend some insights? Paging Richard Choi...

Now back to your regular programming. Scott and Lester -- cool-looking course. Looks like a lot of fun to play!

[Tim Gavrich]

I had the good fortune to drive a cart around the course early in June when VT football coach Beamer had some friends play the course in its nearly-finished state.  It is one of the most visually dramatic golf courses I have ever seen; I will echo many who have already said that the pictures don't even begin to depict the true scale of the place.  Judging from the kinds of shots and bounces the players were getting, the golf course looks to be simultaneously tough and fun.  I can't wait to play it sometime.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Congratulations Lester
I hope it gets lots of creative play
Cheers
Mike

[Carl Nichols]

Congratulations on the opening, Lester and Scott, it looks like a lot of fun (and the views are great too).  Is it still fully private?  What does the membership look like -- mostly local, a mix of local and national, etc.?   

[David Druzisky]

Sure does look great.  Congrats Lester.

I too want to know what the grasses are, especially around the bunkers.

[Lester George]

Carl,

Fully private with about 60-70 (depending on lot sales, not manditory) local members and 300 to 325 national.  National memberships are $15,000 and are defined as greater than 50 miles from Roanoke.

David,

Bent grass fairways, tees and greens with fine fescues in the roughs and outers.  We did use some turf type fescue to border the fairways and stop contamination during grow-in but that will be phased out over the years.

Lester

Lester

[John Mayhugh]

I indicated elsewhere that my recent Kingsley trip changed many of my view of golf course architecture.  To wit, I have previously found the photographs of Ballyhack to be contrived, heavily engineered and unappealing, and vaguely suggested such.  This morning I see an entirely different golf course in these photographs and hope to one day form a first-hand opinion.  I fear I have given the modern golf course short shrift in my analyses.

Please come play it.  I would be very surprised if you felt it contrived after seeing it.  You are correct in your observation in that it has "softened" a lot since the grass has grown in.  In my opinion, this softening effect takes place on all golf courses as they mature.  Therefore, while designing and building, if you want a dramatic edge, you must over-cook it a bit to accommodate for the later softening.  This is most prominently demonstrated in the works of MacDonald, Raynor and Banks to me.

I have to admit to not being as impressed with photos of a lot of modern courses myself.  I really appreciate Mike & Lester's comments here.  These points should have been obvious, but I confess to never having thought of it that way before.

[JC Jones]

Lester, your course looks very interesting.  I think the notion that this is "contrived" is derived from a fear that the desire to look "minimalist" will cause the creation of wild undulations, etc. and a certain "look" (i.e. Whistling Straits) as opposed to just having them already be on the property when you showed up (i.e. Kingsley).  To that end, how much of the course "was already there" vs how much of the course did you have to "create"? 

[Jonathan Cummings]

JCJ - I never thought of it but Kingsley and Ballyhack are a pretty good comparison.  JC

[JC Jones]

JCJ - I never thought of it but Kingsley and Ballyhack are a pretty good comparison.  JC

Have you played Kingsley?  In what way are they similar?

[Brad Swanson]

The series of photos illustrating the development/grow-in of Ballyhack have led me to conclude that the heavy hand of man is very evident at Ballyhack.  In particular the photo below with adjacent fairways with a linear ridge running between the 2 holes looks unnatural to me.

I trust Lester in his assessment that things will soften over time and look forward to seeing how Ballyhack matures.  I truly hope that it fulfills its potential.

Cheers,
Brad

[Wade Whitehead]

Gentlemen:

I've posted a series of photographs taken during a round at Ballyhack two days ago.  They don't (yet) contain architectural insight or comment; instead, they're intended to provide continued opportunity for folks to learn about the course secondhand.

Some of my photos certainly mirror those already posted; a few, however, provide new looks at a few spots.

See http://web.me.com/wadewhitehead/Ballyhack/Photos.html if interested.

I look forward to comments or questions.

WW

[Bill Kubly]

Brad,
I'm sure that Lester will respond about the "heavy hand", but the ridge between these two holes was existing.  When you actually stand on each of the tees of holes #18 and #12, they do not seem so unnatural, in fact it is very unique on a golf course.  The grade of the 18th fairway (the one to the right) is exactly how it laid in nature, only the grasses were changed.  The key was keeping the large oak tree on the right side of the hole.  Then of course you are hitting into this 30,000+ square foot green which is a great experience. 

Yes, some dirt was moved at Ballyhack, but scrapers were not needed as most dirt was just pushed around.  The only real "excavation" was in digging the irrigation pond at the end of the driving range and this dirt was mostly moved to the range itself. 

wwhitehead:  Your photo tour is wonderful, especially coming from a player on the course.  I hope many GCA members and guests will make an attempt to get to Ballyhack this season.  In these tough times for golf, it is refreshing to see such a positive opening.  The condition of this course is the best grown in course I have ever seen that was not sodded wall to wall, especially when you consider the terrain of Ballyhack and the fact that growing in bentgrass fairways on steep slopes can be nearly impossible.  Billy Bobbit has done a great job with this grow-in.......Lester and his team a wonderful job on the design as they spent thousands of hours refining Ballyhack to its rough look.......